Re: MT roundhouse

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by Hatake88, Jun 10, 2018.

  1. Hatake88

    Hatake88 Yellow Belt

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    Hi guys

    I've been really trying to nail the MT roundhouse as of late. I've got a couple of questions that I would really appreciate some answers/thoughts to:

    1. How do you determine the rising trajectory fo a MT roundhouse to the body/head? Thus far, I've seen two variations:
    • Where you start by pivoting/turning your hip straight away - this gives the kick a wider arch
    • Where you start by having your hip coming forward (same motion as a knee), only pivoting and turning the hip over when the kick has reached the desired height - this givens the kick a narrower arc
    My question is: when will you use one variation over the other (e.g. at different ranges/when aiming for different body parts)? I've heard my thai coach say the first variation (w/ the wide arch) is just a poor man's version of the second variation - is that true?

    2. How do you determine how much to turn your hips over? Is the following correct:
    • head kick/low kick to outer thigh: almost all the way over (toes of kicking leg should be close to pointing straight down at point of impact)
    • to the body/low kick to inner thigh: only very slightly - your shin should land at a 45 degree angle (thus digging upwards into the rib cage/thigh)
    If the above is correct, then at what point will you want to land kicks with your shin flush (i.e. wth your shin pointed at 90 degrees/horizontal?). I've noted a lot of people (including myself) land with my entire shin to the body - is there an advantage to this versus landing it at a 45 degree angle?

    3. How much do you straighten your leg upon impact? Is range the only determinant for this (bent leg for close/punching range) and straight leg for outside range?

    4. Amount of pivot...depends on the amount of time you've got.
    The optimal amount is to turn until your supporting/non-kicking foot is pointed towards directly backwards (this gives you power and adds range). However, if you are trying to pull a quick kick off then don't turn as much.

    5. Hand placement. Is the following correct:
    • At kicking range (and for kicks to the head): swinging the kicking arm down for balance/power; non-kicking arm glued to the side of face or cross guard (cross guard if you think your opponent is going to counter you with a straight punch)
    • At punching range (and for low kicks): swinging your kicking arm out/across (so that your chin/face is shielded by that arm); non-kicking arm glued to the side of face
    Thanks a bunch!
     
  2. AndyMaBobs

    AndyMaBobs Purple Belt

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    A lot of this is just preference.

    I've wrote two little essays on the subject:

    http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/banging-the-body-kicks-a-handy-dandy-guide.3543939/

    https://www.dieselgym.co.uk/the-importance-of-fighting-like-a-chicken-how-to-kick-diesel-breakdown/


    1. The trajectory is a tricky one because they're not actually the same kick. They ARE the same kick, but not, if you get what I mean. A step to the outside makes a kick harder but without a punch is telegraphed - but it shouldn't effect the arc of the kick

    I would actually advocate just learning the narrow arc and not bothering with the wide arc. People say that there's value to both but really it's just quicker to have the narrow arc and it's more important that you land frequently. When you're just starting to learn it's best to just have one before you try to do both.

    2. It depends on where you hit, from how far away and what direction they were moving in, but as a general rule you try to kick through them. I turn my hips over pretty far:

    [​IMG]

    You're nearly always at least trying to pull your shoulder through. Whether you land with the foot or head is really just dependent on your distance. A pendulum kick is usually done with the foot, hard kicks are done with the shin.


    3. Don't worry about it, the straightened leg thing is more a myth than fact. Every fighter does it differently. Samart Payakaroon would chamber and extend his leg in a manner stereotypically thought of as a karate kick. The truth is the kicks really aren't as different as people make out, it just depends on who the person is. Some fighters land a round kick across the belly with their knee bent as their standard go to. It just depends on preference.

    4. For me the end goal is to have my heel facing my opponent, it gives you the maximum amount of distance to land the strike. If you aim for that then you'll always hit the kick as far as you could have possibly gone from that angle.

    5. As for hand placement it's really just preference, Thai's tend to swing the arm downwards, I've seen more dutch fighters keep the hands high, but even then they tend to swing. I usually put my glove in my opponents face and kick up on that side. Close range in Muay Thai isn't quite the same as in other martial arts though, as if you're close enough for your hands to touch, and I mean from long distance punching range, then you're close enough to be in the clinch. If you're quite close it's really better to throw knees than kicks because kicks take so long and the closer you are to the opponent the less time you have to throw your kick.
     
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  3. shincheckin

    shincheckin Purple Belt

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    i was going to post that bas rutten video which answered alot, but not all his questions, but cant seem to find it. I found Bas opinion on wide arc for smaller arc interesting.
     
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  4. Tayski

    Tayski Stand-up Fighting

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    I'd suggest signing up to some lessons under a legit instructor and you'll learn all of that.
     
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  5. AndyMaBobs

    AndyMaBobs Purple Belt

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    Y'know your basement? Well right underneath that.
    Haha, mind you, call me cynical but even then it's a stretch, 65% of the legit instructors in the UK and US don't know what they're talking about the majority of the time :D
     
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  6. Tayski

    Tayski Stand-up Fighting

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    So it's better to ask your technical questions on Sherdog as opposed to asking a qualified instructor? :eek:
     
  7. shincheckin

    shincheckin Purple Belt

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    so true dude. The amount the sport has grown in 10 years is insane. 10 years ago, I was training at one of the better MT gyms in Socal. I was the assistant coach to the head instructor, was regularly holding pads for guys like cub swanson and erik apple. So its just crazy for me to think, that at the time, I was holding pads for future UFC Champ
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
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  8. Hatake88

    Hatake88 Yellow Belt

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    thanks for your insigjtful contribution =.= i am actually an amateur fighter...

    i am just looking to learn the best variation of the kick at different ranges - thats all
     
  9. Tayski

    Tayski Stand-up Fighting

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    I don't mean to sound condescending but you don't seem to know much for an amateur fighter.

    Do you fight out of your garage or do you have coaches who are either too incompetent to answer those questions or you're too afraid to ask them?

    Those things you're asking are things you get to learn at a pretty basic level, hence why my advise to take a few lessons wasn't a piss take.
     
  10. j123

    j123 Pro Sherdogger 500-0-1

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    Sherdoggers are the GOATest

    We're banned from fighting in teh UFC because we're too deadly
     
  11. William Huggins

    William Huggins Blue Belt

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    Qualification........<45>

    Runs and prints Kru certificate and puts it on wall, along with random Muay Thai shorts with permanent black marker pen scribbled on them........

    Sign up now........... Free Wai Khru lesson for the first 20
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2018
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  12. William Huggins

    William Huggins Blue Belt

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    It's too big a weight cut for me at 7,2" and 300Ibs with 8% body fat.........they also don't have big enough gloves or groin guards.....I can just about fit 1 testicle in the extra large cup......
     
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  13. AndyMaBobs

    AndyMaBobs Purple Belt

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    Hell yeah, otherwise why would everyone be doing it :p

    I kid, but you know what I mean
     
  14. William Huggins

    William Huggins Blue Belt

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    If you know what information and posters to trust, this striking forum can be a wealth of knowledge to anyone, even a pro.......
     
  15. Tayski

    Tayski Stand-up Fighting

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    Qualified as in verified by the national Muay Thai organisation, if there's even one lol.
     
  16. Tayski

    Tayski Stand-up Fighting

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    A lot of times people asking questions on the stand-up forum haven't actually trained in a gym or dojo and train out of their garage KO'ing jackets and what not.
     
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  17. William Huggins

    William Huggins Blue Belt

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    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
  18. Tayski

    Tayski Stand-up Fighting

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  19. Hatake88

    Hatake88 Yellow Belt

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    "I don't mean to sound condescending"...except in the very next sentence I ask whether you fight out of your garage. "My advice to take a few lessons wasn't a piss take"...except in the OP it clearly states that I have a thai coach.

    Go away. As you can see from posts made by Andy, there is much to be learned from sherdog posters. What is so "basic" about taking apart a kick into several components and trying to figure out the best variation for different situations? Coaches often have their own distinct styles dependant on how they like to fight. The variation they teach/like using the most may/may not work for students so what is so wrong asking others for a different perspective?

    Btw, you have yet to actually make a single contribution regarding roundhouse technique...
     
  20. Tayski

    Tayski Stand-up Fighting

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    You should take things less personally and stop trying hard to defend yourself.

    All I said initially was "I'd suggest signing up to some lessons under a legit instructor and you'll learn all of that."

    There was nothing personal or insulting in that sentence. I said that because just like Andy I learnt the answers to those questions by actually learning from decent trainers, not by asking online. It is a sound advice.

    Then of course you had to be sarcastic about my "insightful contribution" and you being an "amateur fighter" and all.

    To be honest with you I feel sorry for you if your Thai coach cannot answer your questions, or maybe you weren't bothered to ask him in the first place.

    Taking apart a kick into several components is pretty basic, it's not advanced strategies. Coaches might have their own personal variations but if they're legit enough they'll show you the different variations AND most importantly answer your questions and teach you what suits your body type and fighting style. That's what a legit coach does.

    There's nothing wrong with asking people's opinion online, but then don't go aggro when one of those opinions is that you should ask your coach and if he's too shit to answer your questions then maybe go see another one instead. That's the best way to learn, by having someone with real knowledge show you how it's done physically, and correct it when you are actually performing it in front of him. Describing with words how to kick is never gonna be good enough, that's my opinion.

    Good luck with your internet quest for answers mister amateur fighter.
     
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