Rate GSP's Strength of Opposition vs. Woodley's

[Lax617]

I don't understand why many of you cannot simply appreciate Woodley as the current champion without jumping into all-time talk?

I like Woodley, but comparing his career to GSP at this point isn't reasonable. Woodley has a long way to go before his resume is worthy of this debate and that's not a dig, it's just a fact.

Hypotheticals about a head-to-head match up are reasonable, but it is likely we'll never see this match. GSP is only fighting to cement his legacy or retirement fund at this point and I don't blame him. How many greats have we seen tarnish their legacy, because they couldn't let go when their time was up?

As a sidenote, Woody just appeared on HK's Instagram, which makes me an even bigger fan. He's pro 2A and has good taste in firearms

 

[datfnguy]

Evolution being what it is even if GSP's competition look better on paper they would likely lose to the guys Woodley is fighting. Tyron and the guys he faces came up watching and learning from the guys GSP faced.
Like the age old debate Ali or Tyson... Tyson would have made Ali reconsider careers.

 

[datfnguy]

GSP fought the best in their prime.

Woodley fought a lot of GSP's leftovers.

Shields, Condit, Koscheck, Jay Hieron..

Are you taking into the fact that these fights all happened between 4 and a half and and 5 and a half years ago when Tyron was self coached and with the exception of a split decision loss toe Jake every fight was a first or second round finish for Tyron?

 

[chaos_36]

Your "facts" are incredibly biased. Hieron and Koshcheck were WAY past their primes when Woodley fought them so I would hardly think you can compare them to the fighters they were when they fought GSP. Also, Shields outgrappled Maia when they fought but I guess you'll just ignore that because Woodley lost to him so that wouldn't fit your angle.

Face it: Woodley has unavenged losses where he was soundly beaten and he is not even close to being the WW GOAT. A win over the completely unproven Darren Till does nothing to affect that

I'm the one angling? Are you seriously suggesting Maia a multiple world champion BJJ practitioner is not as good of a grappler as Jake fucking Shields? Seriously? I have a feeling all you guys mentioning the Woodley/Shields fight actually haven't seen it and are just going by Wiki or fight finder. Woodley fought Thompson who's a better striker than anyone GSP fought. He fought Maia who's a better grappler (yes that includes Shields) than anyone GSP fought. Till is like a gigantic version of Hardy, a guy who GSP couldn't stop by the way and also bigger than anyone GSP fought. Having unavenged losses doesn't mean shit when one of the guys has failed multiple PED tests and the other guy doesn't fight in the organization you're in. GSP fans are like Michael Jordan fans who deny Lebron is simply a younger, bigger, faster, more athletic, more skilled version of Jordan. GSP was good in his era but his day has passed. Woodley kills any version of GSP and that's the reason GSP will avoid him, like he avoided Anderson for years and years and avoided Romero and Whittaker.

 

[stav]

Evolution being what it is even if GSP's competition look better on paper they would likely lose to the guys Woodley is fighting. Tyron and the guys he faces came up watching and learning from the guys GSP faced.
Like the age old debate Ali or Tyson... Tyson would have made Ali reconsider careers.

Not really.
You forget foreman was still fighting and won a title well out of his prime.
The old man took Holyfield the distance.
Ali schooled a prime and hungry foreman.

Now I agree mmath (boxing) does not work and Tyson certainly may have beaten a prime Ali but it’s near impossible comparing generations of fighters.

Its fun but it’s not an exact science.

 

[Brock-B-level-Athlete]

Evolution being what it is even if GSP's competition look better on paper they would likely lose to the guys Woodley is fighting. Tyron and the guys he faces came up watching and learning from the guys GSP faced.
Like the age old debate Ali or Tyson... Tyson would have made Ali reconsider careers.

hahahahhahahah

 

[Mob69]

GSP has never faced someone as quick and powerful as Tyron Woodley with A+ wrestling defense to boot, tho Woodley has faced much better strikers than GSP.

Woodley has never faced anyone who is remotely close to the all-around MMA package of skill and fight IQ offered by GSP. And I am not sure that Woodley has in fact faced 'much better strikers' than GSP. Georges is one of the most proficient strikers we've ever seen. He also possesses arguably the best jab in MMA history. Rory demonstrated that one weapon was Tyron's kryptonite.

 

[Mob69]

Every one of GSP's wins as champion was against an opponent in his prime.

Re. TW-Maia and Lawler were old and on the way out. Till's resume is too thin. TW did well with what was given to him, but he is not fighting in the Golden Age of the WW division. No fault of his own. Maybe he could have beaten all the same people GSP beat, but he didn't. He should be humble enough to admit the division is weak if not the weakest in a decade.

Not to mention Woodley's win over Condit win is difficult to gauge because of the freak injury on the takedown. Tyron did crack Condit good in the first round but never stunned him, and Carlos was starting to turn up the pressure prior to the injury. I believed at the time, and still believe, that Carlos would have overwhelmed him with volume - either winning a decision or getting a late stoppage. Let's not forget that Jake Shields outstruck and outworked Tyron shortly before this, so Carlos should have been able to do the same whether on the feet or with strikes from his back.

 

[Mob69]

Not really.
You forget foreman was still fighting and won a title well out of his prime.
The old man took Holyfield the distance.
Ali schooled a prime and hungry foreman.

Now I agree mmath (boxing) does not work and Tyson certainly may have beaten a prime Ali but it’s near impossible comparing generations of fighters.

Its fun but it’s not an exact science.

Absolutely. I don't think Tyson would have beaten Ali though. Frazier was better than Tyson, with similar technique and way more heart - and Ali beat him twice. And that was post-suspension Ali.

 

[Alpha_T83]

GSP has never faced someone as quick and powerful as Tyron Woodley with A+ wrestling defense to boot, tho Woodley has faced much better strikers than GSP.

Cough, Koscheck, cough.

Let's not revise history here. Koscheck definitely had A+ wrestling, and he was fast with a bomb right hand. He was knocking people out left and right. GSP outwrestled him in the 1st fight, and outstruck him on the second fight. GSP literally stole Koscheck's soul.

If Prime GSP were to fight Woodley he'd win easily:

1) Woodley is actually better fighting against southpaws, for whatever reason. Wonderboy, Maia, Lawler, Till -- all southpaws. GSP can fight both southpaw and orthodox, and he always fights to his opponents weakness.
2) Tyron is catching guys coming in for big crosses. Darren Till was going for that left hand when he got caught. Prime GSP didn't wade in all wreckless with right hands, not after he got caught by Matt Serra. GSP was lethal with his jab from a good distance. There's no way Woodley catches GSP -- GSP jabs him to death like Koscheck.
3) As I mentioned Koscheck had that A+ wrestling. Prime GSP puts Woodley on his back the second he gets frustrated from eating jabs all night.

 

[Mob69]

I never called him GOAT of anything, but if we are talking about a strait fight Woodley is honestly a more dangerous and clever version of Hendricks, the same Hendricks who took GSP to the absolute limit. Woodley is too old to ever surpass the legacy of GSP, but if they fought prime for prime I think Woodley would sleep him off a jab counter more times than not.

I think prime Hendricks (the one who beat Condit and Lawler, and, in truth, GSP) would beat prime Woodley.

They had comparable amounts of power, comparable wrestling, and Hendricks was way busier in the cage. He threw a lot of volume. Tyron has never had the conditioning to do that (look how he got outworked by Jake Shields, who simply peppered him with volume for three rounds). Hendricks beat better opponents in their prime (I'm including GSP in this, because Hendricks definitely won whatever the judges say) and he had the cardio to keep working for 25 minutes.

 

[VanillaBryce]

It is difficult and stupid to try and compare their records.

While they are similar ages, GSP being 37 and Woodley being 36, GSP has much more mileage.

GSP's first professional fight was in 2002 where as Woodley debuted in 2009. GSP had defended his belt 4 times before Woodley even debuted.

When Woodley made it to the UFC GSP was about to defend his belt against Nick Diaz and was ready to have a break after having 26 fights... this being his 10th title defense.

GSP beat everyone they put infront of him and at the time they were the best fighters in their prime. The game has evolved and unfortunately many of the people GSP defeated have gone on to have a few losses.

Woodley's title run began roughly 2 and a half years after GSP had retired... so I find it really difficult to compare their careers. You can try and look at their common opponents with the main difference being GSP's win over Shields. But Woodley has grown as a fighter since then.

Both of them are great fighters and we will never see them fight each other in their prime.

 

[Mob69]

Yea, no. You're overrating Woodley.

100%. See my breakdown of the two above. Prime Hendricks was better than Prime Woodley.

 

[Isthat-yo bop]

They can fight and figure it out ,

 

[Mob69]

Prime Maia is better than Prime Shields

 

[Mob69]

Fuck mma fans are the worst for recency bias

MMA fans, the media. It's fucking pathetic. What's worse is the sport still has a very short history. Learning it isn't like trying to grasp the history of professional boxing or another longstanding sport. There's no excuse for this recency bias. Every PPV sees a discussion in the media or on here about whether 'X is now the greatest fighter ever at Y weight class', or whether 'Fighter A is now the best P4P fighter on earth'. STFU.

 

[quantiqus]

GSP: Very Strong
He had the best opposition compared with Jones, Silva, Aldo, Fedor, MM. Just look at their last fights between GSP. Most of them (except Nick) were on a great winning streak before GSP

Woodley: Fair
- Wonderboy - one defense against a fighter with a hard-to-deal-with style
- Maia - he is on decline and although he is a top bjj fighter in MMA you can deal with his style if you know how
- Till - he beat Cerrone who is on decline and he beat (controversial) Wboy after a very boring fight

All three are legit fighters, but it's a fair competition, clearly not a very strong one

 

[Gamer007]

Cough, Koscheck, cough.

Let's not revise history here. Koscheck definitely had A+ wrestling, and he was fast with a bomb right hand. He was knocking people out left and right. GSP outwrestled him in the 1st fight, and outstruck him on the second fight. GSP literally stole Koscheck's soul.

If Prime GSP were to fight Woodley he'd win easily:

1) Woodley is actually better fighting against southpaws, for whatever reason. Wonderboy, Maia, Lawler, Till -- all southpaws. GSP can fight both southpaw and orthodox, and he always fights to his opponents weakness.
2) Tyron is catching guys coming in for big crosses. Darren Till was going for that left hand when he got caught. Prime GSP didn't wade in all wreckless with right hands, not after he got caught by Matt Serra. GSP was lethal with his jab from a good distance. There's no way Woodley catches GSP -- GSP jabs him to death like Koscheck.
3) As I mentioned Koscheck had that A+ wrestling. Prime GSP puts Woodley on his back the second he gets frustrated from eating jabs all night.

Cmon man you just lost all credibility, He would beat Tyron easily? Like he did against Hendricks right? <45>

The only difference is Tyron wouldn't get too aggressive and allow GSP to sneak in TD's

Against a bigger, stronger, quicker, better fight IQ fighter like Tyron it'd look like this, He'd fight off his pressure and keep GSP from taking him down. Even If GSP could wall and stall eventually they'd be broken up and he'd have to strike.

Then Eventually

It's fucking 5am right now, I don't know if I can stay awake long enough to break this down to you all but it's not that hard to understand. Tyron is a better version of Hendricks, hell if Hendricks didn't have manlet reach he would have finished GSP in 2 rounds.

 

[Alpha_T83]

It's fucking 5am right now, I don't know if I can stay awake long enough to break this down to you all but it's not that hard to understand.

You're a fucking retard troll. You post GIFs of GSP against Hendricks which has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion. GSP had already "retired" in his mind, and it wasn't his greatest fight. Everbody knows that. I didn't mention Hendricks and you're posting fucking retard troll GIFs. Plus Hendricks was obviously juicing pre-USADA, so again, meaningless comparisons.

Tyron Woodley would get jabbed at will by GSP from a distance. Because GSP would be jabbing, that counter right hand Tyron throws wouldn't work. And as I mentioned, Tyron is better against southpaws. GSP would fight from the orthodox stance, which would further protect him from Tyrons right hand.

Tyron would absolutely start making mistakes once GSP breaks him down with the jab, at which point GSP would take him down at will.

 

[Raksas]

GSP fought tougher competition than any other champ in my opinion. Jon Jones being the only one that comes close.

Tyron fought a lot of one dimensional fighters like Wonderboy and Till (Shit wrestling/BJJ) and Maia (Shit standup). He is going to fight another one dimensional fighter in colby next (shit standup)

GSP fought well rounded beasts like prime Hendrix, prime Koscheck, prime Penn 2x, Hughes 2x, Fitch and specialists like Shields who is criminally underrated and who actually beat Maia with his grappling. It's not close. GSP all the way