Ranking HW Eras

[Lee_]

1) 63-76- Ali, Prime Foreman, Norton, Liston, Frazier, Young, Patterson, Shavers.
2) 85-98- Holyfield, Tyson, M. Spinks, Bowe, Klitschko, Lennox, Old George
3) Now- Fury, Joshua, Ruiz, Wilder, Usyk, Zhang, Francis

It pretty much looks like this era isn't so good at HW.

Francis did fantastic and amazing things the other night, but I think it is clear this group of top HWs are more just good than truly great. They seem to match up to other eras even worse than ever.

I don't think Francis could do that to prime Lewis, Tyson, Bowe, Foreman, Ali, etc.

 

[Lee_]

You must admit the look of this has changed recently....

 

[mozfonky]

1) 63-76- Ali, Prime Foreman, Norton, Liston, Frazier, Young, Patterson, Shavers.
2) 85-98- Holyfield, Tyson, M. Spinks, Bowe, Klitschko, Lennox, Old George
3) Now- Fury, Joshua, Ruiz, Wilder, Usyk, Zhang, Francis

It pretty much looks like this era isn't so good at HW.

Francis did fantastic and amazing things the other night, but I think it is clear this group of top HWs are more just good than truly great. They seem to match up to other eras even worse than ever.

I don't think Francis could do that to prime Lewis, Tyson, Bowe, Foreman, Ali, etc.

maurice smith and don wilson tried to crossover to boxing with negative results. Maurice had his first pro fight with James "Broadaxe" Broad who was a contender and had an extensive ammie background, he knocked maurice out. The simplest answer is the heavyweights today are just that bad. I'll be honest, it put me in a funk for the last couple days. The mma fans are gloating and they should because there really is no excuse for this.

 

[Lee_]

maurice smith and don wilson tried to crossover to boxing with negative results. Maurice had his first pro fight with James "Broadaxe" Broad who was a contender and had an extensive ammie background, he knocked maurice out. The simplest answer is the heavyweights today are just that bad. I'll be honest, it put me in a funk for the last couple days. The mma fans are gloating and they should because there really is no excuse for this.

Yeah, many thought the HW division of today is better because the fighters are generally bigger, but I think we saw that bigger isn't always better. These guys don't compare to other eras when even kickboxers did bad in boxing.

 

[Fedorgasm]

maurice smith and don wilson tried to crossover to boxing with negative results. Maurice had his first pro fight with James "Broadaxe" Broad who was a contender and had an extensive ammie background, he knocked maurice out. The simplest answer is the heavyweights today are just that bad. I'll be honest, it put me in a funk for the last couple days. The mma fans are gloating and they should because there really is no excuse for this.

Feels good to have a moral victory for MMA, after those stupid YouTubers that keep beating up smaller retired MMA fighters have convinced the casuals that boxers > MMA fighters.

The reality is that the winner should always be the one who's rules we're going by.

So this is a complete embarrassment for boxing. But boxing fans shouldn't feel too bad. Remember when Ray Mercer beat Tim Sylvia under MMA rules? That dude deserves a lot of credit.

 

[ferrisjso]

70s
30s
90s
60s
50s
20s
00s
10s
40s
80s
2010s
2000s
1890s
2020s

I don't feel strongly about every single placement on this list but I think this is about right.

 

[Johnnny]

36-54: Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Max Schmeling

 

[PBAC]

Feels good to have a moral victory for MMA, after those stupid YouTubers that keep beating up smaller retired MMA fighters have convinced the casuals that boxers > MMA fighters.

The reality is that the winner should always be the one who's rules we're going by.

So this is a complete embarrassment for boxing. But boxing fans shouldn't feel too bad. Remember when Ray Mercer beat Tim Sylvia under MMA rules? That dude deserves a lot of credit.

jake and ngannou took it seriously. The other mma fighters didn't really. Silva and the others tried to rely on what they knew already and fought like their standard selves. That's all there is to it. Ngannou learned some knew thing but also mixed in some stuff he knew already like clinch control. Fury is actually horrible in the clinch outside using his body weight. Basically jake and ngannou learned to fight like boxers and the others didn't.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

maurice smith and don wilson tried to crossover to boxing with negative results. Maurice had his first pro fight with James "Broadaxe" Broad who was a contender and had an extensive ammie background, he knocked maurice out. The simplest answer is the heavyweights today are just that bad. I'll be honest, it put me in a funk for the last couple days. The mma fans are gloating and they should because there really is no excuse for this.

Agreed. Fury is an embarrassment and he has no excuse even if he took him lightly. When he was boxing & moving laterally though he was easily outboxing Ngannou as expected. He has a tendency to make fights that shouldn't be challenging challenging. As you've criticized him for a lot with the 3rd Wilder fight as well. He already had him figured out and then he fought like an idiot and nearly blew it. Fury's fight IQ and preparation are so inconsistent. When he fights disciplined and follows the gameplan he looks a lot better.

 

[mozfonky]

Feels good to have a moral victory for MMA, after those stupid YouTubers that keep beating up smaller retired MMA fighters have convinced the casuals that boxers > MMA fighters.

The reality is that the winner should always be the one who's rules we're going by.

So this is a complete embarrassment for boxing. But boxing fans shouldn't feel too bad. Remember when Ray Mercer beat Tim Sylvia under MMA rules? That dude deserves a lot of credit.

I'd have to say it's the most dissapointed I've felt since Roy Jones got kayoed by Tarver, it's been that long since I've been this effected.

I knew the heavyweights were bad but I had no idea they were so bad that a guy with a little resilience could make "the best" look like that.

 

[mkt]

maurice smith and don wilson tried to crossover to boxing with negative results. Maurice had his first pro fight with James "Broadaxe" Broad who was a contender and had an extensive ammie background, he knocked maurice out. The simplest answer is the heavyweights today are just that bad. I'll be honest, it put me in a funk for the last couple days. The mma fans are gloating and they should because there really is no excuse for this.

Don Wilson destroyed Art Jimmerson, the one-armed boxer who "fought" Royce Gracie at UFC 1 (he barely fought with one glove and tapped before Royce had an actual sub locked in). Did he compete against any other boxers? Don was limited on the number of low kicks (I believe it was 5 per round) in the hybrid event.

 

[mkt]

jake and ngannou took it seriously. The other mma fighters didn't really. Silva and the others tried to rely on what they knew already and fought like their standard selves. That's all there is to it. Ngannou learned some knew thing but also mixed in some stuff he knew already like clinch control. Fury is actually horrible in the clinch outside using his body weight. Basically jake and ngannou learned to fight like boxers and the others didn't.

If you're referring to Jake Paul-Anderson Silva, keep in mind Anderson was 46 which was literally twice Jake's age.

 

[mozfonky]

Don Wilson destroyed Art Jimmerson, the one-armed boxer who "fought" Royce Gracie at UFC 1 (he barely fought with one glove and tapped before Royce had an actual sub locked in). Did he compete against any other boxers? Don was limited on the number of low kicks (I believe it was 5 per round) in the hybrid event.

he beat him in boxing? I'll check, i looked at his record today--just looked, he had a 4-2 record, both losses by kayoes and no Jimmerson.

That's no real knock on Don wilson who was an accomplished martial artist/wrestler, it's just that in those eras, like I keep telling my pals, "even the clubfighters were good".

 

[mkt]

he beat him in boxing? I'll check, i looked at his record today--just looked, he had a 4-2 record, both losses by kayoes and no Jimmerson.

That's no real knock on Don wilson who was an accomplished martial artist/wrestler, it's just that in those eras, like I keep telling my pals, "even the clubfighters were good".

It was a hybrid event where Wilson could kick but had limits on what he could do.
Kickboxing Don Wilson vs Boxing Art Jimmerson - YouTube

 

[SeanWRT]

85-98 by far the way I rate them.

No discounting classic boxing and the boxing of today - if you watch and compare, 90s' HW is absolutely the pinnacle of HW boxing skill and athleticism, it was not even close.

I'm not saying Lennix/Bowe/Holyfield/Mike destroy everyone of today (although I do believe so), because the HW fighters are now relying on size/weight (Foreman was 220lbs at 70s and was considered big) more than anything else.

For me, Riddick Bowe is the perfect HW fighter bar none during his Holyfield rivalry. Can't recall any other HWs mastering outside and INSIDE being that big.

 

[PBAC]

If you're referring to Jake Paul-Anderson Silva, keep in mind Anderson was 46 which was literally twice Jake's age.

No matter. Point is all the mma fighters jake fought just carried their natural stand up into boxing. Jake and Francais at least least studied boxing.

Mot sure about mcgreafor but his boxing style just looked like an adaptation of his normal stand up.

 

[mkt]

No matter. Point is all the mma fighters jake fought just carried their natural stand up into boxing. Jake and Francais at least least studied boxing.

Mot sure about mcgreafor but his boxing style just looked like an adaptation of his normal stand up.

Still, the difference in age/wear along with size in most of Jake's fights was very significant. In addition, Jake has been trainin for nothing but boxing since 2018-19. None of these recently retired MMA guys had time to catch up and really hone their boxing for a few years before fighting Jake.

 

[Lee_]

For me, Riddick Bowe is the perfect HW fighter bar none during his Holyfield rivalry. Can't recall any other HWs mastering outside and INSIDE being that big.

Yeah, it would have been transformative on the boxing scene of that era if Bowe didn't suffer from personal problems.

Bowe had similar ability to Lennox; imagine what it would have been like if he had continued at a high level and not plummeted from his issues outside the ring. You are talking about someone who kidnapped their own family.

 

[ferrisjso]

85-98 by far the way I rate them.

No discounting classic boxing and the boxing of today - if you watch and compare, 90s' HW is absolutely the pinnacle of HW boxing skill and athleticism, it was not even close.

I'm not saying Lennix/Bowe/Holyfield/Mike destroy everyone of today (although I do believe so), because the HW fighters are now relying on size/weight (Foreman was 220lbs at 70s and was considered big) more than anything else.

For me, Riddick Bowe is the perfect HW fighter bar none during his Holyfield rivalry. Can't recall any other HWs mastering outside and INSIDE being that big.

Foremans ghost competing in the 90s at a high level will forever give the 70s the edge..