Ranking Conor as an All-Time Great Striker

How would you put Edson's kicks with Cung Le?

I guess in MMA better, but Cung Le had taken a world of punishment when he got into MMA, in his prime, the man could unload crazy from those fancy feet.

Fairly similar MMA fighters. Edson is longer and more fluid. More naturally athletic so I'd give him the edge. Cung's problem wasn't age though it was not being able to handle pressure like Edson. Both guys can stop a takedown very well which is a huge advantage when you have excellent kicks like that, but neither guy can take a guy putting them on their back foot. It's a fundamental flaw of Muay Thai, and why you're seeing it starting to fade out in the new generation of fighters in favor of a more boxing heavy/freestyle approach now that most people have a good wrestling base to defend take downs.
 
? Old man Anderson...

Silva was on a 16 fight streak when he first fought weidman. He had also finished his last 4 opponents in under 2 rounds.

Weidman absolutely mauled Silva both times they fought.

Funny how Silva fanatics try to rewrite history. Suddenly Silva who looked unbeatable in 16 prior fights was suddenly past prime for the weidman fights

Guess those failed drug tests are being swept under the rug as well....
So he wasn’t 38 with 37 fights to his name? Lol shit post
 
Fairly similar MMA fighters. Edson is longer and more fluid. More naturally athletic so I'd give him the edge. Cung's problem wasn't age though it was not being able to handle pressure like Edson. Both guys can stop a takedown very well which is a huge advantage when you have excellent kicks like that, but neither guy can take a guy putting them on their back foot. It's a fundamental flaw of Muay Thai, and why you're seeing it starting to fade out in the new generation of fighters in favor of a more boxing heavy/freestyle approach now that most people have a good wrestling base to defend take downs.

Good points.

I imagine the Muay Thai game will adapt to the circumstances, whether it takes a while or not. All useful forms of MMA are adapted by different fighters who have the talent/ability to utilize what they are looking for.

Also, true about Cung Le, but part of that has to be age. He was training to fight in a ring, not putting in a lot of mat time, or a lot of specific clinch stuff. There was no way to catch up on that, but he had enough left in the tank to still be a fun draw. At least that's how i see it.

Part of it too is that the Octagon has always favored the wrestler and the counter puncher. If you're a wrestler get them up against the wall and hold them, if you're a counter puncher, use all that real-estate and lack of a corner (being cornered or caught) to keep moving your feet until you get the angle to throw the counter. It leads to a lot of guys circling each other looking for the one big punch.
 
Good points.

I imagine the Muay Thai game will adapt to the circumstances, whether it takes a while or not. All useful forms of MMA are adapted by different fighters who have the talent/ability to utilize what they are looking for.

Also, true about Cung Le, but part of that has to be age. He was training to fight in a ring, not putting in a lot of mat time, or a lot of specific clinch stuff. There was no way to catch up on that, but he had enough left in the tank to still be a fun draw. At least that's how i see it.

Part of it too is that the Octagon has always favored the wrestler and the counter puncher. If you're a wrestler get them up against the wall and hold them, if you're a counter puncher, use all that real-estate and lack of a corner (being cornered or caught) to keep moving your feet until you get the angle to throw the counter. It leads to a lot of guys circling each other looking for the one big punch.

Muay Thai has already adapted. You'll always see it in MMA, just not to the extent it used to be. It'll still be a primary martial art. It's clinch work, usage of limbs, easier and more effective kicks are invaluable. However, it won't and shouldn't be the main source of striking work.

He was a bit older, but he's also fighting at MW where that doesn't really matter. I'm not saying he didn't slow down at all, but it wasn't his main problem.

Ehh, counter punching is mostly due to the nature of MMA. Lots of guys used to be afraid to lead with combinations in fear of being put off balance and getting taken down, so you got counters. Kind of like an over-reliance on Muay Thai, there is not much need anymore because most guys have good wrestling these days. Obviously you can't just freely do the same stuff as in boxing, but you see most strikers leading now and forming their own styles. Another thing you have to consider is the level of boxing skill in MMA has always been very low and is only just recently started to rise over the last decade. You can't expect proper boxers if a guy lacks good experience it takes to make one.

I agree with the wrestling part in the cage though, it gave a big advantage to wrestlers, especially those with poor footwork. Guys like Khabib wouldn't be nearly as successful. I've never liked it. If you can't get them down in open space like you have to in the circle, you don't deserve it. I wish they would go to a floored ring, but it'll never happen. Cage is most likely here to stay forever.
 
Muay Thai has already adapted. You'll always see it in MMA, just not to the extent it used to be. It'll still be a primary martial art. It's clinch work, usage of limbs, easier and more effective kicks are invaluable. However, it won't and shouldn't be the main source of striking work.

He was a bit older, but he's also fighting at MW where that doesn't really matter. I'm not saying he didn't slow down at all, but it wasn't his main problem.

Ehh, counter punching is mostly due to the nature of MMA. Lots of guys used to be afraid to lead with combinations in fear of being put off balance and getting taken down, so you got counters. Kind of like an over-reliance on Muay Thai, there is not much need anymore because most guys have good wrestling these days. Obviously you can't just freely do the same stuff as in boxing, but you see most strikers leading now and forming their own styles. Another thing you have to consider is the level of boxing skill in MMA has always been very low and is only just recently started to rise over the last decade. You can't expect proper boxers if a guy lacks good experience it takes to make one.

I agree with the wrestling part in the cage though, it gave a big advantage to wrestlers, especially those with poor footwork. Guys like Khabib wouldn't be nearly as successful. I've never liked it. If you can't get them down in open space like you have to in the circle, you don't deserve it. I wish they would go to a floored ring, but it'll never happen. Cage is most likely here to stay forever.

I think things will continued to be improved for many, many years to come. When UFC 1 began all of this was the realm of mystery outside of some serious martial artists and those who just liked to fight.

The science of the body motion and application of physics is an ongoing process.

The Grace's revolutionized (or popularized) jiujitsu and yet there is still so much that goes into mastery, or different approaches, Edward Clark Gallagher basically wrote the book on wrestling, however, many chapters are added as time goes on.


Now, on the part about the fear of combinations you are right and to be honest I almost mentioned that in my post.
The point

The "problem" is the Octagon as a barrier for grappling works great for trapping people, for aggressive strikers, brawlers, and punchers, it is an obstacle to enclosure.

The 8 sides make it to where whoever you are pursuing has two different angles from which to easily pivot and escape, or duck out of, a ring provides fewer compromises.

There is no corner to really corner someone in with striking in the Octagon, and that was by intent, the Gracie's knew what they were doing.

Why should I aggressively back someone down when there is no back to back them into? Not only that, the space and size make the effort of trying to find that angle all the more daunting, if not impossible.
 
So he wasn’t 38 with 37 fights to his name? Lol shit post


? Doesn't change the fact that he looked unbeatable (other than the first Sonnen fight) right up until Weidman starched him.

If facts upset you perhaps a different sport....

He had won 16 fights in a row and looked dominant for the most part in almost all of them. He was heavily favored to beat the largely untested Weidman the first time they fought.

Just because your PED swilling hero got beat twice by someone almost no one expected to win sucks for you but it doesn't change facts.
 
If he KOs Khabib where do you rank him in terms of All-Time Great Strikers in MMA?

IMO theres a solid argument to be had for putting him as no. 1.

Yeah Conor got boxed up by Nate once he gassed, but that's just as legitimate as saying Anderson got boxed up by Chael in the first fight due to the Takedown threat.
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What if he does not KO Khabib and gets knocked down by a Khabib right? Then choked out? Where does he rank then?
 
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