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wow oh well roger hasnt been submitted since blue though although buchecha might be able to do it in their rematch
Rafa's BJJ record is LUDICROUS
- Thread starter Dana_is_your_GOD
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lol, that's just ludicrous.
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forget how Rafa did at the ADCC camp. I want to hear what happens in the gym when rafa and Gui roll at AOJ. As long as the school has been open, I haven't heard from a single member or visitor talk about them training nor rolling with each other. Has anyone seen that take place?
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When will Buchecha be considered for the GOAT title?
Also I think Rodolfo could've been a contender for GOAT if he had decided to stick with BJJ rather than MMA.
He won his weight division at ADCC pretty easily imo.
Two things I could he vastly wrong about:
Buchecha's reign was kind of short (although he's not done, he doesn't seem very active).
Rodolfo went to MMA after the back to back losses to Buchecha.
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He wasn't even 18 at that time o_o
It's a small thing but he didn't win 6 in 6. He won 6 titles in 7 years. So he had a couple threepeats (2010-2012 and 2014-2016). He lost the Worlds finals in 2013 to Tanquinho and ADCC finals to Cobrinha. That was the big off year for Atos at Worlds. Gui Mendes also got bumped out in Worlds during the quarter finals which was a huge shock.
Honestly Cobrinha isn't far off. The man got 4 titles in 4 years at Worlds (2006-2009) and was in the finals against Rafa for 4 of Rafa's World title wins and 1 or 2 of of Rafa's decision wins there could've gone the other way. Rafa also has 2 ADCC titles (consecutive) and 2 Pans titles.
Cobrinha also has 2 consecutive ADCC titles like Rafa, and he's got 5 Pans titles and 4 Nogi Worlds titles. Rafa never did Nogi worlds so that may not be fair to throw in. And the Worlds and ADCC titles are what really matter but if Cobrinha could snag another worlds and/or adcc title this year then I think it's a close debate.
I still have Rafa as the best featherweight ever before people come bearing torches. But Cobrinha doesn't seem to be slowing down and it's maybe not likely with Marcio Andre out there but it's at least a possibility that Cobrinha could match Rafa's 6 world titles and Cobrinha is probably going to be the favorite at ADCC this year to win 3 in a row at 66kg.
If you just count Worlds and ADCC and Rafa has 6 and 2 and Cobrinha ends up with 5 and 3 at the end of this year then I'm just saying you've got an argument.
I had their training site for a few years and they did put up one roll I think between the two of them when Rafa was prepping for ADCC 2013 but it was positional sparring and they didn't just slap hands on the feet and roll totally open. I think they were starting with in set positions. I've heard of them rolling there so I don't know which is true but I have heard that they mostly roll with each other when it's smaller or when the place is closed. I've also heard of them just rolling when everyone else rolls but I think they have different class schedules so I'm not sure if they're even there at the same time to roll together during busy hours there.
I don't think there's a huge skill gap. Gui is a 4 time world champ, and Rafa has 6. Gui retired before Rafa won his final 2, and so it's likely that Gui would have also had 6 if he had competed in 2015 and 2016. And being a 4x world champ is fucking amazing. Any multiple time champ is amazing but 4 is legendary by itself.
Usually when you see two good brothers, they each usually develop either a good guard or good passing first. Obviously they both have amazing guards and amazing passing but as far as their gi games: Gui was famous for his heavy pressure knee slice passing to brabo chokes or baseball chokes. Rafa was well known at the time for his berimbolos to the back to chokes or armbars or berimbolos to the leg drag pass to armbars or kimuras. So when they both were competing Rafa hadn't yet displayed a lot of the AND-1 style passing that people have seen him use in recent years.
Rafa is more famous for a few reasons. He's more outgoing and had slightly better English. Gui was always more of the quiet type. Rafa also had the flashier game. Gui used the berimbolo also but Rafa used it and developed crazy pathways with it during a time when the position was super fucking popular. He had the crazy side to side leg drag passing and the "sprinting" guard passes. He had the somersault anaconda and darce chokes and the kiss of the dragon back attacks. The really explosive arm drags and rolling kimuras and inverted triangles. Gui Mendes was a lot slower paced with very deliberate crushing pressure and basically knee sliced and baseball choked everyone.
Also Rafa really enjoys doing nogi and Gui doesn't as much so Rafa was always the brother to do ADCC. So Gui was never able to display a lot of his nogi skill but he's very good also. But Rafa winning ADCC at such a young age was another thing that made him stand out to many people.
And the last thing is that rivals make for great athletes. And featherweight had Cobrinha. And IMO Rafa wouldn't have been as great as he became without Cobrinha there to make his greatness shine even more. Gui had a ton of world class opponents at light feather but he never had a true rival like Rafa/Cobrinha, Caio/Bruno, Lo/Langhi, Buchecha/Rodolfo, etc.
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Great posts mataleaos.
Few things to add to this thread:
In regard to when Buchecha will be in serious consideration for GOAT status, it will probably be after this year's Worlds. He has won double gold (ultra heavy and open) four times already, more than any fighter ever, including Roger Gracie (3x double gold). If he does it again this year, that makes an unprecedented 5x double gold champion, and he will be tied at 10 overall world titles with Roger Gracie. Not only is he young enough to easily surpass that number and break the record, but it will make their rematch this summer, which is the first real IBJJF style meeting, all the more interesting.
If Cobrinha wins at feather during this Mundial, he is at 5 gold medals in the featherweight division overall, which means he could potentially tie Rafael Mendes' record in 2018. Rafa strikes me as the type to come out of retirement to try and prevent that from happening. With legacy on the line, plus the time that will have passed, it will make for the most anticipated match up between the two yet.
When I trained with Atos in 2010 in Rio Claro, Rafa and Gui would be even. They were too good to ever really change positions. But Gui dropped occasional matches and Rafa never did. Gui felt worse to roll with because he played the top position more often, but both were nightmares.
In regard to P4P status, it is really important to take into account that Rafael not only does not get submitted, but does not get scored on (unless it is a seesaw 50/50 match). Even in the few times he has fought open weight. I can't think of anyone else that completely negates offense the way Rafael Mendes does. Even Marcelo got his guard passed by Popovitch, and submitted by Drysdale. Roger has been taken down by (off the top of my head- I think) Demente, and Xande. Who is scoring on Mendes?
Also in regard to the picture of Lister and Rodolfo, don't forget that Lovato has heel hooked Rodolfo as well
Few things to add to this thread:
In regard to when Buchecha will be in serious consideration for GOAT status, it will probably be after this year's Worlds. He has won double gold (ultra heavy and open) four times already, more than any fighter ever, including Roger Gracie (3x double gold). If he does it again this year, that makes an unprecedented 5x double gold champion, and he will be tied at 10 overall world titles with Roger Gracie. Not only is he young enough to easily surpass that number and break the record, but it will make their rematch this summer, which is the first real IBJJF style meeting, all the more interesting.
If Cobrinha wins at feather during this Mundial, he is at 5 gold medals in the featherweight division overall, which means he could potentially tie Rafael Mendes' record in 2018. Rafa strikes me as the type to come out of retirement to try and prevent that from happening. With legacy on the line, plus the time that will have passed, it will make for the most anticipated match up between the two yet.
When I trained with Atos in 2010 in Rio Claro, Rafa and Gui would be even. They were too good to ever really change positions. But Gui dropped occasional matches and Rafa never did. Gui felt worse to roll with because he played the top position more often, but both were nightmares.
In regard to P4P status, it is really important to take into account that Rafael not only does not get submitted, but does not get scored on (unless it is a seesaw 50/50 match). Even in the few times he has fought open weight. I can't think of anyone else that completely negates offense the way Rafael Mendes does. Even Marcelo got his guard passed by Popovitch, and submitted by Drysdale. Roger has been taken down by (off the top of my head- I think) Demente, and Xande. Who is scoring on Mendes?
Also in regard to the picture of Lister and Rodolfo, don't forget that Lovato has heel hooked Rodolfo as well
Damn really good post. I didn't even know Buchecha and Roger had a match coming up in IBJJF rules. That's going to be really awesome. Do you think Cobrinha picks up at least another Worlds title in the next couple of years, or do you think Marcio Andre is the guy? I'm not confident calling it yet either way. I know Andre beat Cobrinha last year, but I don't think it's at all a given that Andre beats Cobrinha this year. And looking at ADCC this year I think Cobrinha is the clear favorite to win 66kg. I think he's maybe the most underrated nogi athlete ever in jiu-jitsu. And if not the most I would confidently say top 3. That's interesting about Rafa negating offense. I didn't even take that into account when I wrote what I wrote. The only times I've seen him swept outside of the 50/50 finals see-saw situations with Cobrinha/Tanquinho/Marcio is a Ryan Hall sweep from their old match where Hall sort of came up from deep half and took Rafa's legs out from under him. But yeah I can't think of anyone that gets less offense put on them than Rafa. As an aside I always wanted to see Rafa vs Hall without the gi.
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Actually, correction, I think Lovato won on points no gi, not by heel hook..
I would bet the house on Cobrinha this year. Some people think the cut factored into Marcio passing. I don't know if that's true but I think Cobrinha will be more on his game this year and ready to go. I still think he is the man to beat in the division if Rafa is out.
Ryan and Rafa almost happened at Metamoris. Then it changed from no gi to gi at Rafa's request, before Rafa withdrew altogether. He was replaced by Bill Cooper, and then Ryan hurt his shoulder and withdrew. He was replaced by someone else, I think JT Torres. But then Bill posted a racist cartoon on Twitter and they removed him from the event, and replaced him with Victor Estima. This is all from memory, but I'm pretty sure that's the timeline.
I would bet the house on Cobrinha this year. Some people think the cut factored into Marcio passing. I don't know if that's true but I think Cobrinha will be more on his game this year and ready to go. I still think he is the man to beat in the division if Rafa is out.
Ryan and Rafa almost happened at Metamoris. Then it changed from no gi to gi at Rafa's request, before Rafa withdrew altogether. He was replaced by Bill Cooper, and then Ryan hurt his shoulder and withdrew. He was replaced by someone else, I think JT Torres. But then Bill posted a racist cartoon on Twitter and they removed him from the event, and replaced him with Victor Estima. This is all from memory, but I'm pretty sure that's the timeline.
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And we were robbed of a Ryan Hall metamoris countdown.
Do you mean (mini) Lo?
Lepri and Langhi are very good friends, on the same team, and as far as I know have never competed against each other.
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No one has had the utter fucking dominance Roger had at world's where he finished with 13 of 14 I think by sub and 8 of 8 by sub at ADCC.
Buchecha may collect more titles but until he submits the field he won't be best ever. I've posted the list of the LEGENDS Roger subbed...not beat on points. Just strict domination. Fuck you domination. You guys don't have a chance domination.
Buchecha may collect more titles but until he submits the field he won't be best ever. I've posted the list of the LEGENDS Roger subbed...not beat on points. Just strict domination. Fuck you domination. You guys don't have a chance domination.
I did mean Lo my bad...
I am focusing on worlds. Has anyone has had the kind of 7 year run that Rafa has had? How long has cobrinha been a black belt? Also we can't ignore rafa's record against cobrinha.
