Question about Sprints

[Sano]

Agreed. It's sometime's difficult to define HIIT. I've seen the term used to discribe everything from 20 second sprints on a stationary bike to 200 meter hill "sprints", although I would venture to suggest that hill repeats would probably be more a more accurate discription.

Haha, that would probably be a more fair description! Yep it's a bit of a loose term. Some studies have 25ish minutes of "HIT" going against 30 minutes of "LISS". Makes you wonder.

Ultimately the proof is in the pudding, but it's nice to back it up with something.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Haha, that would probably be a more fair description! Yep it's a bit of a loose term. Some studies have 25ish minutes of "HIT" going against 30 minutes of "LISS". Makes you wonder.

Ultimately the proof is in the pudding, but it's nice to back it up with something.

Yeah, I've done repeats up a 250 meter hill and it usually breaks down like this,

First 100 meters: full out sprint.

100 - 150 meters: fast run.

150 - 200 meters: slow down to a jog.

200 - 250 meters: slow down to walking pace, try not to throw up/pass out

 

[KnightTemplar]

Interestingly, the latest popular training method for cardio is the polar opposite of HIIT.

Wogging - I promise I'm not making that name up - is a combination of Walking and Jogging/Running. Basically, jog or run until your pace starts to drop, then walk until you've recovered enough to start running again. Repeat until you have finished the course. According to it's proponents, studies have shown that varying the pace between walking and running burns up to 20% more calories than simply jogging at the same pace for the whole session.

It's also a lot easier for people will fairly low fitness to start using, whereas HIIT usually requires a decent aerobic base before it can be used effectively.

 

[4daLuLZ]

@Thorpedo28

HR is genetic in the way it responds to the training and how low it'll get with how much volume. Just as woman naturally have a higher resting heart rate than men, about 10bpm, while being equally conditioned. Yeah it definitely responds to training no matter what, I wasn't saying that you naturally had that low a HR without training. If you did, you would have bradycardia.

Sounds like you would benefit from the sprint training more than the LISS at this moment yes, not that you should cut the longer sessions out completely. I would tone them down to 2 times a week and then do sprints 2-3 times a week for about 3-4 weeks, take a break for a week or two and then see where you are at. Imo, increasing sprint volume should be done in blocks as they are very demanding. Especially with all the other training you're doing. There are plenty of sprint/HIT protocols out there you could follow, I would start conservatively and then build up the number of sets gradually in the 3-4 weeks.

I think @biscuitsbrah had a pretty interesting one from Joel Jamieson?

Is your best 5k time 22:30? If so, yeah then you would probably benefit from the speedwork, considering the aerobic base you have.

Btw, going all out, I mean, sparring is just as much about learning how to be efficient with your energy, but you probably already know that.

Well, just finished another block of runs (5 weeks). 7x800 mts, 60 seconds recovery. Each interval 3:00 - 3:15.

Started off with 90 seconds break and 3:20 per interval. Improved it to 60 second recovery and being 10-15 seconds faster per interval.
Compared to the last block I was doing, 400 meter runs in 95 seconds with 60 second breaks, I've effectively doubled my work capacity for the same recovery period.

Now I'm going through my deload week. After this, I've got 9 weeks to competition.

Power, explosion and power endurance are still my main focus and weakness.
Recovery too though it's vastly improved. Still needs more work.

So what do you think .......for a 4 week block :

400 meter all out sprints. Either 2 X (3x400mts), 1 minute rest between intervals, 5-10 minute break between sets.

Or 6-7 X 400 mts all out, 60 sec rest

Or longer breaks of 2 minutes and progressively cutting 15 secs recovery off every session or every week.

Or the same thing except switching the 400s to 800s.

 

[JauntyAngle]

So what do you think .......for a 4 week block :

400 meter all out sprints. Either 2 X (3x400mts), 1 minute rest between intervals, 5-10 minute break between sets.

Or 6-7 X 400 mts all out, 60 sec rest

Or longer breaks of 2 minutes and progressively cutting 15 secs recovery off every session or every week.

Or the same thing except switching the 400s to 800s.

Imma jump in here.

Or 6-7 X 400 mts all out, 60 sec rest

Are you training speed/power or endurance? If you want to train speed, you should rest as long as you need to between sprints so each one can be as close as possible to 100%. If it's endurance, then sure, fixed rest periods.

I think most runners should do both types of training.

 

[4daLuLZ]

Imma jump in here.

Or 6-7 X 400 mts all out, 60 sec rest

Are you training speed/power or endurance? If you want to train speed, you should rest as long as you need to between sprints so each one can be as close as possible to 100%. If it's endurance, then sure, fixed rest periods.

I think most runners should do both types of training.

Lactic clearance, heart lung function, muscular endurance and recovery is my goal, if I pick this training regime.

Speed is not a priority as I'm a boxer, not a runner, and my leg speed is good enough for boxing, as of now, at this stage.

 

[JauntyAngle]

Lactic clearance, heart lung function, muscular endurance and recovery is my goal, if I pick this training regime.

Speed is not a priority as I'm a boxer, not a runner, and my leg is good enough for boxing, as of now, at this stage.

Then it sounds fine.

 

[LatFlare]

Lactic clearance, heart lung function, muscular endurance and recovery is my goal, if I pick this training regime.

Speed is not a priority as I'm a boxer, not a runner, and my leg speed is good enough for boxing, as of now, at this stage.

lookat some of joel jamisons recent articles on 8weeksout.com about different interval training methods there's some good info there.

 

[bushman505]

Too bad Ironwolf isn't here anymore. That dude was a cheetah.

I’m still around, mostly lurk as I’m busy as hell and focusing more on dall sheep and mountain goat hunting these days. I still run almost every day but and get around 60 miles per week. I’m in the middle of nowhere though so my only strength equipment is a pull-up bar, kettlebell and 100lb sandbag.

Hill sprints are still a big part of my training, in fact I did some yeaterday, I hate running with a pistol on my chest but there’s wolves like fuck out here.

 

[bushman505]

My 5k pb is 20:34 and that was after beers the night before so hoping for 20 mins before the end of the year, no kids at the moment so thought i'll tick it off the list before that changes!
Yeah my half pb is 1:38 but in much better shape now so hoping to go sub 1:35 next month.

Just done 6 x 3 min session with a couple of sub 18mins 5k guys (couldn't keep up) but feel utterly broken now!

Currently around 30 miles a week but aiming to build up to 40-50 along with 2-3 gym sessions

I pretty much always drank beers the night before races. It only fucked my race up a few times.

 

[bushman505]

Yeah, I've done repeats up a 250 meter hill and it usually breaks down like this,

First 100 meters: full out sprint.

100 - 150 meters: fast run.

150 - 200 meters: slow down to a jog.

200 - 250 meters: slow down to walking pace, try not to throw up/pass out

Go do the pretorian hills workout out of TB2, I love that one. Fucking brutal.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

I’m still around, mostly lurk as I’m busy as hell and focusing more on dall sheep and mountain goat hunting these days. I still run almost every day but and get around 60 miles per week. I’m in the middle of nowhere though so my only strength equipment is a pull-up bar, kettlebell and 100lb sandbag.

Hill sprints are still a big part of my training, in fact I did some yeaterday, I hate running with a pistol on my chest but there’s wolves like fuck out here.

Hey dude. Good to see you are still here in your new form !

 

[therealdope]

One of the first British athletes to use HIIT-style training was Seb Coe, who's father made him run 200m repeats with only 30 seconds of rest between each run.

You are joking -- right? You know Bannister ran sub 4 i(on a cinder track no less!) in 1954, right? he didn't do that by steadily jogging faster.

 

[KnightTemplar]

You are joking -- right? You know Bannister ran sub 4 i(on a cinder track no less!) in 1954, right? he didn't do that by steadily jogging faster.

I have no idea of Bannister's training methods. Perhaps he used his own version of HIIT. What I do know is that Coe was one of the first athletes officially credited with using this training method.

 

[therealdope]

I have no idea of Bannister's training methods. Perhaps he used his own version of HIIT. What I do know is that Coe was one of the first athletes officially credited with using this training method.

Who in the blue hell officially credits these accomplishments? Certainly no one who ever ran middle distance or watched Chariots of Fire - LMAO!!

FWIW - I'm very familiar with Peter Coe's coaching of his son. For track guys of my age, Coe's book was a bible.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Who in the blue hell officially credits these accomplishments? Certainly no one who ever ran middle distance or watched Chariots of Fire - LMAO!!

FWIW - I'm very familiar with Peter Coe's coaching of his son. For track guys of my age, Coe's book was a bible.

Wikipedia entry on HIIT.

 

[therealdope]

Wikipedia entry on HIIT.

Oh FFS.

This is going to be the joke topic for the next get together with ex-teammates.

 

[therealdope]

The idea that sprinting and high intensity intervals didn't occur until the mid 70s is ludicrous.

If you look earlier I posted the idea of doing 10x400m at 70sec. that workout comes from Roger Bannister who would do ten 400s at 58secs with 2mins rest. Go ahead and try to run 200m at that 400m pace and ask yourself whether that is an interval.

Paavo Nurmi ran 3:52 for 1500m in 1924. His workout included a lot of sprinting on the track and up hills.

 

[senri]

 

[KnightTemplar]

The idea that sprinting and high intensity intervals didn't occur until the mid 70s is ludicrous.

If you look earlier I posted the idea of doing 10x400m at 70sec. that workout comes from Roger Bannister who would do ten 400s at 58secs with 2mins rest. Go ahead and try to run 200m at that 400m pace and ask yourself whether that is an interval.

Paavo Nurmi ran 3:52 for 1500m in 1924. His workout included a lot of sprinting on the track and up hills.

If I tried to run 200m at that kind of pace, the only thing I'd be asking for is CPR.

You're arguing with your shadow, man. I quoted the Wiki entry because that was a far as I cared to research into it. It's not even a form of training I use at the moment. My cardio is purely based on LISS, and I don't see that changing any time soon. I'm happy to defer to your obviously greater knowledge on this topic.