Question about NCAA.

[GuanoApes]

What’s the difference between a NCAA Division I and Division II champion?

Also, I’m assuming NCAA wrestling is where the best wrestlers from the biggest colleges all compete. Correct?

 

[loyalyolayal]

Ignorant PoV.

I always assumed that division II athletes just didn't make the cut or went unnoticed(or just really loves a division II school) for division I schools.

 

[GuanoApes]

Johnny Hendricks was a Division I and II wrestler.

 

[jack36767]

What’s the difference between a NCAA Division I and Division II champion?

Also, I’m assuming NCAA wrestling is where the best wrestlers from the biggest colleges all compete. Correct?

The NCAA divisions are divided “mainly” on enrollment figures. That way a small college with less than 2000 kids, and a smaller endowment like Mount Saint Joe, King College or Wartburg, are not trying to compete against an Ohio state with over 40,000 students on the main campus alone and something like a 3.5 billion dollar endowment and literally thousands of rich alumni donating.

You have exceptions to the enrollment based divisions by school or individual sport at a school. For example Davidson, Campbell and Presbyterian Universities would normally be DII or DIII based off enrollment but offer DI sports for a variety of reasons. Then you have the teacher colleges in PA: Edinboro, Lock Haven, Bloomsburg, and Clarion which are DI in wrestling but DII in all other sports.

Because the “main” idea behind it is competitive balance. DI schools are allowed to offer a higher number of “official” scholarships, DII less and DIII not at all technically. (DIII has work arounds depending on institution)

In “general” winning DI is considered much more prestigious and rated MUCH higher than DII or DIII. The better recruits go DI and a lot of upper tier but not elite would rather go DI for less money than go to a lower division school with a better scholarship. However all of the athletes in all the divisions are tough as shit and it’s not unheard of to see the lower division guys beat DI guys at tournaments and then you have elite guys like @Dirty Holt or Tervel Dalagnev come out of smaller divisions or NAIA (a whole other thing) more often than not

 

[dsdoubled]

Johnny Hendricks was a Division I and II wrestler.

Hendricks was DI his entire NCAA career.

 

[Balto]

My buddy was a pretty successful DII wrestler (All American, placed 2nd nationally one year, 3rd another, etc).

He says he picked DII because it was a better balance of academics/athletics than he'd get at a DI program. At the DI programs, you were primarily there to wrestle and school was secondary to that. He said the balance was better at his DII program.

He was pretty successful academically in high school so he went DII (he might have got more money from that scholarship too; not exactly sure on that). He got good grades in college, went on to grad school after, and got an advanced degree in his field. Now he runs his own business successfully and is pretty set up in his 40s now.

He is still very involved in wrestling as well. He has since coached multiple high school state champs, NCAA champs, etc.

So overall I think he was pretty happy with his choice. I know he pushes a lot of the DII programs with his high school wrestlers.

 

[dsdoubled]

Apparently its really tough to wrestle DI simply for the academic requirements and standards. You often see some really really good wrestlers never wrestle DI for this reason (among others). Deron Winn and Khetag Pliev (2 up n coming MMAers btw) come to mind. Both about as accomplished as a HS wrestler could be domestically but never wrestled DI. Winn went the JUCO and DII route and Pliev went to JUCO until he got stuck back in Russia.

 

[dsdoubled]

My buddy was a pretty successful DII wrestler (All American, placed 2nd nationally one year, 3rd another, etc).

He says he picked DII because it was a better balance of academics/athletics than he'd get at a DI program. At the DI programs, you were primarily there to wrestle and school was secondary to that. He said the balance was better at his DII program.

He was pretty successful academically in high school so he went DII (he might have got more money from that scholarship too; not exactly sure on that). He got good grades in college, went on to grad school after, and got an advanced degree in his field. Now he runs his own business successfully and is pretty set up in his 40s now.

He is still very involved in wrestling as well. He has since coached multiple high school state champs, NCAA champs, etc.

So overall I think he was pretty happy with his choice. I know he pushes a lot of the DII programs with his high school wrestlers.

Ive heard its the opposite but Im sure different people have different experiences. Apparently you slack off in DI with your grades and youre done, you don't wrestle. Usually when grades are an issue a decorated HS wrestler will do the 2 years at JUCO and then go DI. So many well known wrestlers went this route.

 

[Balto]

Ive heard its the opposite but Im sure different people have different experiences. Apparently you slack off in DI with your grades and youre done, you don't wrestle. Usually when grades are an issue a decorated HS wrestler will do the 2 years at JUCO and then go DI. So many well known wrestlers went this route.

I'm sure it varies. I mean most (all?) of the Ivy Leagues wrestle DI. I get the feeling they aren't slacking academically.

I have heard not all the programs are like that though. I wouldn't know firsthand (didn't wrestle), but I trust my buddy on it. He was legitimately good in school (made All Academic as well as All American) so I know it was a concern for him.

 

[jack36767]

My buddy was a pretty successful DII wrestler (All American, placed 2nd nationally one year, 3rd another, etc).

He says he picked DII because it was a better balance of academics/athletics than he'd get at a DI program. At the DI programs, you were primarily there to wrestle and school was secondary to that. He said the balance was better at his DII program.

He was pretty successful academically in high school so he went DII (he might have got more money from that scholarship too; not exactly sure on that). He got good grades in college, went on to grad school after, and got an advanced degree in his field. Now he runs his own business successfully and is pretty set up in his 40s now.

He is still very involved in wrestling as well. He has since coached multiple high school state champs, NCAA champs, etc.

So overall I think he was pretty happy with his choice. I know he pushes a lot of the DII programs with his high school wrestlers.

Ive heard its the opposite but Im sure different people have different experiences. Apparently you slack off in DI with your grades and youre done, you don't wrestle. Usually when grades are an issue a decorated HS wrestler will do the 2 years at JUCO and then go DI. So many well known wrestlers went this route.

It’s not necessarily that the academics are tougher though they often are. It’s that in DI it’s much more a JOB to be an athlete than a sport.. than what you “typically” see in lower divisions. Also crackdowns on NCAA rules and the threat of being cut has made it most competent DI coaches require kids to be the total package and are much less tolerant of bad grades or behavior (generally.. lol). I actually massively “overachieved” in college based off my high school resume because I was mentally ready for it to be a job whereas more accomplished teammates couldn’t handle it and wanted to party or not go to class even though they worked plenty hard in the room.

Whereas, “generally” inDII or III it’s much more balanced

 

[dsdoubled]

I'm sure it varies. I mean most (all?) of the Ivy Leagues wrestle DI. I get the feeling they aren't slacking academically.

I have heard not all the programs are like that though. I wouldn't know firsthand (didn't wrestle), but I trust my buddy on it. He was legitimately good in school (made All Academic as well as All American) so I know it was a concern for him.

Apparently Marcus LeVessuer had a similar situation. He was never totally direct on why he left DI to go DIII but I think academics were important to him and DI just had so many other demands like harder wrestling practices, bigger and more parties, etc. LeVessuer is an interesting case. He was an incredible HS wrestler, received a full ride to DI, went 10-0 in DI competition, left for a powerhouse DIII school, never lost a match, and during his DIII career he beat a ton of DI All Americans and national champs in freestyle tournaments. Over his career he has beat Ben Askren, Tyron Woodley, Keith Gavin, etc.

 

[dsdoubled]

I actually massively “overachieved” in college based off my high school resume because I was mentally ready for it to be a job whereas more accomplished teammates couldn’t handle it and wanted to party or not go to class even though they worked plenty hard in the room.

Whereas, “generally” inDII or III it’s much more balanced

Yeah id imagine thatd be a huge asset. I knew a kid in HS went to college as a huge prospect but the newfound freedom of college was too much for him and he washed out completely.

 

[dsdoubled]

Id actually really love to know more about Kid yamamoto's wrestling career. He was very decorated in Arizona winning state titles and making cadet world teams for japan and he had considerable College opportunities. I guess he was destined for MMA.

 

[Dirty Holt]

The divisions were set years ago. Regardless of size or budget, teams can switch divisions simply by petitioning and showing the ability to compete. Plenty of schools move divisions. The primary reason is distance of competition or being a new school and moving up.

 

[dsdoubled]

The divisions were set years ago. Regardless of size or budget, teams can switch divisions simply by petitioning and showing the ability to compete. Plenty of schools move divisions. The primary reason is distance of competition or being a new school and moving up.

Yeah I noticed a few MMA guys (Tony ferguson, kevin Lee, jon Jones) wrestled for teams that changed divisions. Also, youre somewhat of a wrestling historian right? What was up with kid yamamoto after High School? Did he ever consider wrestling NCAA? I mean, youd think he was perfectly positioned and had the right support to do big things.

 

[jack36767]

The divisions were set years ago. Regardless of size or budget, teams can switch divisions simply by petitioning and showing the ability to compete. Plenty of schools move divisions. The primary reason is distance of competition or being a new school and moving up.

Oh my bad, I didn’t realize any school could petition

 

[Kenny from MD]

On the other side of things, a lot of people incorrectly assume that a Division I wrestler is automatically a world beater, which is not the case. Speaking specifically of takedowns, I've thrown around a good amount of D1 guys I've met having never wrestled a day in my life (and not being particularly adept at standup), and conversely, lighter teammates from the same program have launched me into orbit. Jiu jitsu guys should spend more time seeking out excellent wrestlers and judokas for the experience of how good someone can be.

 

[dsdoubled]

On the other side of things, a lot of people incorrectly assume that a Division I wrestler is automatically a world beater, which is not the case. Speaking specifically of takedowns, I've thrown around a good amount of D1 guys I've met having never wrestled a day in my life (and not being particularly adept at standup), and conversely, lighter teammates from the same program have launched me into orbit. Jiu jitsu guys should spend more time seeking out excellent wrestlers and judokas for the experience of how good someone can be.

I don't know man, you must just be really good. Pretty hard to get onto a DI team without very good wrestling. Hard to be a very good wrestler without very good takedowns.

 

[Te Huna Matata]

My buddy was a pretty successful DII wrestler (All American, placed 2nd nationally one year, 3rd another, etc).

He says he picked DII because it was a better balance of academics/athletics than he'd get at a DI program. At the DI programs, you were primarily there to wrestle and school was secondary to that. He said the balance was better at his DII program.

He was pretty successful academically in high school so he went DII (he might have got more money from that scholarship too; not exactly sure on that). He got good grades in college, went on to grad school after, and got an advanced degree in his field. Now he runs his own business successfully and is pretty set up in his 40s now.

He is still very involved in wrestling as well. He has since coached multiple high school state champs, NCAA champs, etc.

So overall I think he was pretty happy with his choice. I know he pushes a lot of the DII programs with his high school wrestlers.

Methinks your buddy is full of shit. Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, Lehigh, and countless other high performing academic colleges have division 1 programs. I can't think of any division 2 program who can be mentioned in the same breath as the above.

On the other side of things, a lot of people incorrectly assume that a Division I wrestler is automatically a world beater, which is not the case. Speaking specifically of takedowns, I've thrown around a good amount of D1 guys I've met having never wrestled a day in my life (and not being particularly adept at standup), and conversely, lighter teammates from the same program have launched me into orbit. Jiu jitsu guys should spend more time seeking out excellent wrestlers and judokas for the experience of how good someone can be.

While I very much question the validity of what you're saying, not all division 1 wrestlers are created equally. Hell, not all D1 All Americans are created equally. I can pretty much guarantee before the tournament even happens this season that the 8th place finishers at 125, 141, or 165 are going to be better overall wrestlers than the 8th place finisher at 197.

 

[Balto]

Methinks your buddy is full of shit. Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, Lehigh, and countless other high performing academic colleges have division 1 programs. I can't think of any division 2 program who can be mentioned in the same breath as the above

He's not full of shit. Just because there are good academic DI programs out there doesn't mean those were the programs recruiting him. And even if he could have gotten in, he might not have gotten a free ride there either. Not everyone is rich and can just afford to pay their way through an Ivy League college.

I mean who in their right mind wouldn't take a free ride to wrestle at Harvard if offered. That being said, how many of those offers are really going out?

He wrestled DII at a public university in state. He was a standout wrestler there placing high in the national tournament, All American, etc. Grades wise he did great too. Got to balance his life and plan for the long term by graduating with no debt. I don't think he regrets a thing.