Putin makes Holocaust denial a criminal offence punishable by up to five years in jail.

Should we have laws like this in America?

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ultramanhyata said:
Putin has never struck me as the dictatorial type. Or an enemy of free speech. So this is a fucking shocker.
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Denying the holocaust is illegal in most European countries... think about what that means in relation to your attitude towards Russia's political situation.

fred-leuchter-25-map-of-ountries-with-holo-denial-laws.jpg


HereticBD said:
"Mr. Putin, you have been pegged as a racist white nationalist. You must respond, or else you seem weak."

"Okay, fine. Law is 'Hitler bad'. You like Hitler, you go to jail. This is law now."

"Whoa, whoa, whoa! One step at time. Holy shit!"
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Putin appealed to both the ethnic nationalists in Russia and also anti-racist United Russia coalitions. He changes his tune depending on political climate.
 
BERLIN — Germany’s foreign minister said Saturday that Germany and only Germany was responsible for the Holocaust as it sought to reassure Poland that Berlin would condemn distortions of history such as descriptions of Nazi camps in occupied Poland as “Polish concentration camps.”

Sigmar Gabriel seeks to reassure Warsaw that Berlin will condemn attempts to tar the Polish people with Nazi crimes, but urges no restrictions on free speech
https://www.timesofisrael.com/german-fm-the-holocaust-was-carried-out-by-us-and-nobody-else/

Which is weird because Germany has laws that restrict speech in this very realm.
 
Not surprising at all for me. Free speech has never meant shit in Russia at the state level. Although at the street level, Russians have a complete lack of political correctness and are bold people. About the exact opposite of the West in that regard.

Putin's always played both sides, he's a master at it. Many of the Russian oligarchs and organized crime leaders are Jewish. Also, groups like the ADL are active in the area. I remember seeing footage of the ADL having meetings with high ranking members of the Ukrainian government about Jewish issues.

Putin's made moves to restrict speech which offends Orthodox Christians and other groups. He curries favor with divergent groups simultaneously. He's able to control what comes out of the Caucasus region without unduly interfering with their autonomy. He's arguably the greatest political genius of this time, whether you like him, loathe him or are somewhere in between.
 
grimballer said:
putin_yarmulke.jpg


Is normal
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What is normal? Locking up these people for their beliefs? After further research, the story above is truly insane. The women, Monika Schaefer, posted a youtube video apologizing to her dead mother some time ago. It was this video that they used as evidence to lock her up. But it gets weirder. She had flown to Germany to support a friend who was on trial for this same crap. The woman was Sylvia Stolz. This women has already been imprisoned by Germany. For what? She was the lawyer for another thought criminal and was locked up for defending her client. I can't make this up.

I honestly had no idea this was actually happening and cannot for the life of me see how any American (or anyone really) could support this.

Btw, this is the video apologizing to her dead mother:



And now she is locked up next to murderers, thieves and molesters?
 
This why some people believe the Holocaust did not happen. Throwing people in prison for denying the Holocaust or for just being a Holocaust revisionist makes it look like you are hiding something.
 
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gspieler said:
Where does one draw the line at denial? Don't most "deniers" not necessarily deny that it happened, but just speculate that the magnitude of it is exaggerated?
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I'm a holocaust revisionist.

I absolutely believe it happened, but I believe it didn't happen quite like the history books tell you and also to the magnitude.

I believe a lot more of the deaths were as a result of starvation and typhus than what is accepted. I think the 6 million number is a few million off.
 
It's a mistake to view Putin in the same way one would a Western politician. Like them or loath them, politicians like Trudeau, Merkle, May and even Trump are playing the same game by roughly the same rules. And their nations, for all their many flaws, are democracies.

Russia is a Mafia state. And Putin is the Capo dei Capi.
 
KnightTemplar said:
It's a mistake to view Putin in the same way one would a Western politician. Like them or loath them, politicians like Trudeau, Merkle, May and even Trump are playing the same game by roughly the same rules. And their nations, for all their many flaws, are democracies.

Russia is a Mafia state. And Putin is the Capo dei Capi.
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It's like watching Revolutionary War/Victorian Era duelists try to show down with the Man with No Name and Doc Holliday.
 
Nobody should ever be jailed for simply having an opinion, regardless of how ignorant or insensitive that opinion may be. It doesn't take a genius to see the slippery slope that opens up.
 
Fawlty said:
In what ways, specifically, does the vast consensus of world scholarship have this wrong?
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Isn't that the thing? Who cares? Do you honestly care if someone believes that the number is off by a few million? Should they really be jailed next to murderers, rapists and molesters for believing what you do not?
 
Fawlty said:
In what ways, specifically, does the vast consensus of world scholarship have this wrong?
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I don't have the time to go into specifics, but if you do a little research on the subject, there are tons of sources that argue the 6 million number. Also, the vast majority of scholars will confirm that the 6 million number is most likely incorrect.

6 million in regards to how many were gassed and cremated, not in regards to how many actually died. There are people that don't believe this many people died too, but I am not one of them.

I simply don't believe the original estimates on how many people were gassed and cremated for the same reason that I don't believe the the Aztecs sacrificed over 80,000 people in 4 days. The numbers just don't add up when you do the math.
 
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abiG said:
I honestly had no idea this was actually happening and cannot for the life of me see how any American (or anyone really) could support this.
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Of course I support that. The hippy broke German laws.
You can't just come to the Fatherland and break our laws.
The best case against immigration I have ever seen. Just another foreign criminal not respecting German laws.
Put that hippy on a raft and back to Canada.
 
smellmyfarts said:
I don't have the time to go into specifics, but if you do a little research on the subject, there are tons of sources that argue the 6 million number. Also, the vast majority of scholars will confirm that the 6 million number is most likely incorrect.

6 million in regards to how many were gassed and cremated, not in regards to how many actually died. There are people that don't believe this many people died too, but I am not one of them.

I simply don't believe the original estimates on how many people were gassed and cremated for the same reason that I don't believe the the Aztecs sacrificed over 80,000 people in 4 days. The numbers just don't add up when you do the math.
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You claim it's off by a few million.
 
Fawlty said:
You claim it's off by a few million.
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The six million number comes from the mouth of Adolf Eichmann who was an SS officer in charge of Jewish genocide. Most scholars now days but the number at around 5.1 million in regards to total Jewish loss of lives. I think either number could be correct. I just don't believe 4 million Jews were systematically executed in gas chambers and cremated because the math doesn't add up in regards to how long the process would have taken. I think far more people died from disease and starvation than what was documented. I don't thing these people were cremated in ovens either.

I also believe that far more Gypsies were killed in these camps than what is documented as well. It was pretty much impossible for scholars to estimate just how many gypsies disappeared because there was no way to accurately estimate there populations from before the war.
 
smellmyfarts said:
The six million number comes from the mouth of Adolf Eichmann who was an SS officer in charge of Jewish genocide. Most scholars now days but the number at around 5.1 million in regards to total Jewish loss of lives. I think either number could be correct. I just don't believe 4 million Jews were systematically executed in gas chambers and cremated because the math doesn't add up in regards to how long the process would have taken. I think far more people died from disease and starvation than what was documented. I don't thing these people were cremated in ovens either.

I also believe that far more Gypsies were killed in these camps than what is documented as well. It was pretty much impossible for scholars to estimate just how many gypsies disappeared because there was no way to accurately estimate there populations from before the war.
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You "just don't believe." You "think that..."

Not good enough.
 
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