Purple to Brown - bjj?

[KikoJones]

I know this is an old thread but since many that originally posted have either arrived at
Brown or reached Black, what are your thoughts?

I've been a Purple for about 2.5 yrs and looking to the next chapter.

 

[winterbike]

Wait, you're actually looking FORWARD to it? I've got a big enough target on my back at purple already, I can wait 2-3 more years until brown

 

[CrazyN8]

Wait, you're actually looking FORWARD to it? I've got a big enough target on my back at purple already, I can wait 2-3 more years until brown

Ha, this. I'm a new purple and man I thought blue put a target on me, now i get no quarter from anyone, I'll see a brown or black belt letting a blue work, he gets to me and it's no mercy. Also the blues are like oh a purple belt, it's go time.

 

[TeamKenpo]

Fairly new brown belt here, promoted back in December...

I think everyone’s journey to brown belt is probably a little different, but if I try to generalize, I think it has a lot to do with overcoming the kinds of things that make other people quit...

...things like injuries, ups and downs of competition, building your own game, life events that cause ebbs and flows in your training schedule, etc.

I’m really not satisfied with my answer here, haha. Best I can do though. For me it has definitely been a hell of a journey.

 

[kjg1672]

I got my brown a few weeks ago. It felt good, of course, but it wasn't like when I got my purple. I was overwhelmed when I got my purple, like I couldn't believe finally got it. (btw, it took me three years to go from purple to brown). I guess after almost 11 years of BJJ now, I just kind of go with the flow of everything. I'm older, 46, and I don't have a ton of time to train, so I don't really get too concerned about having a target on my back and that kind of thing. I just try to stay healthy and see how long this thing will last and how much I can learn.

 

[Fla graplr]

Use your A game you developed as a blue and refined all purple to consistently place and win tournaments against game opponents. No lower belt should be even scoring points on you when you roll because you technique is dominating. You should be able to teach all basic techniques to new guys and regularly help people as you at this point are a respectable level. Your conditioning should be better than most anyone. I can't imagine the new blue who is moderatly talented but athletic " wheewww man I'm just outa breath. Couldnt move out of that bad spot. But you got me." Your game is well balanced between drilling, rolling, and very competitive hard rolls ( competition). Can't be the gym hero who knows every move, but gets rode like a pony because he can't firmly apply them I'm tough situations.

I'm a two strip purple and been training 5 years

 

[Zankou]

I know this is an old thread but since many that originally posted have either arrived at
Brown or reached Black, what are your thoughts?

I've been a Purple for about 2.5 yrs and looking to the next chapter.

Purple to brown is the hardest gap by far.

Brown is basically just a black on probation.

At purple belt you are already pretty good, and so the amount of raw effort and discipline required to get to the next level is disgustingly high compared to white blue (just show up) and blue to purple (develop basic execution skills).

 

[lechien]

about 2.5 years or earlier if you are good at competition.

I am purple.

Yeah. I am now first degree BB.

Actually almost 5 years at BB.

My requirements or expectations have not really changed since the original post.

You consistently turned twice a week to the class and usually it takes 2.5 years to get promoted from blue to purple.

I am just using a quantitative way to measure progress instead of qualitative.

 

[asian-glow]

I think J sho nailed it pretty well. I've long since concluded that the only thing a belt signifies is your relationship with your instructor and their goals for YOU given your life circumstance and potential. He doesn't even take into consideration your personal goals, which a few people have brought up but which I think is irrelevant towards the promotion itself.

Generally, mine seems to see how I do with other people, particularly visitors, as I don't compete. Along these lines, blue belts feel like white belts. The mysticism of black belt is over - they bleed too.

Really the main difference I felt is that I could tell people were getting better just from rolling with me, even my instructor. The tone that my instructors had towards me also shifted from one of student to slightly more as an equal.

In a lot of ways, I feel like it's what you've already been doing, just better.

The real perk is now your skill is high enough that you can treat rolls like active drilling whereas before you were just trying to survive. I had to wait til brown to do what I wanted bc i had to build all this foundation to get there. Also it's easier to line up bc there's usually not many brown belts.

The bad (good?) thing is everyone wants to kill you all the time, even though I'm 160lbs and not strong. At BB you have a mental advantage on people who still think BB's are gods - people give up on things they would normally power thru (referring to normal BB's, not the actual bjj gods like Galvao, Rafa, etc.). At brown you don't get to taste that yet.

Counterpoint - I always heard that by brown belt you're mostly sharpening what you already know. While I find this to be true i am also developing stuff that I only started doing at late purple belt (e.g. crucifix and arm in chokes). I really only see now that I would need a few lifetimes to learn everything. Even then...

Summary
If you're a good training partner for browns and blacks (defend some of their stuff and catch them with your own), I think your a brown belt. There is however a ton of variation as we all know.

Ultimately all it means is that you fit your instructors criteria for a brown belt. Your criteria for yourself is always a moving goal post.

Aside
I always found it funny how every school think's they are the stingiest with belts like it was something to brag about. They got a word for that - sandbagging.

The only belt that matters is black bc it's the only one you can't sandbag at. Even then it's only useful if you want to open a school and/or compete against the best.

 

[mataleaos]

Purple to brown is the hardest gap by far.

Brown is basically just a black on probation.

At purple belt you are already pretty good, and so the amount of raw effort and discipline required to get to the next level is disgustingly high compared to white blue (just show up) and blue to purple (develop basic execution skills).

See I read this everywhere all the time but for me blue to purple was harder.

I think I'm just an exception maybe.

I sucked. Terribly. For years and years. I spent a little over 6 years at blue. Once it finally clicked for me though it clicked hard and purple was pretty easy for me.

I think the tough thing for purple for a lot of people is that you're sort of on your own. At that point you have to perform to get to brown, and you have to take a lot of ownership over your own learning and your own game, and there's less hand holding from your coaches. It becomes personal and you have to figure a lot of stuff out for yourself. If you enjoy that type of thing then I think purple isn't that bad and is actually a very fun belt. I fucking hated blue because I just couldn't find a game that worked for me and I was too passive and could not execute.

I had a blast at purple. A lot of that raw effort and having to figure out how to overcome it and sharpen up my game was very enjoyable for me. I'm surprised I didn't quit before purple. Once I got purple I realized I was a lifer and I just relaxed into the (difficult) process and started enjoying the journey.

Shrugs.

I think J sho nailed it pretty well. I've long since concluded that the only thing a belt signifies is your relationship with your instructor and their goals for YOU given your life circumstance and potential. He doesn't even take into consideration your personal goals, which a few people have brought up but which I think is irrelevant towards the promotion itself.

Generally, mine seems to see how I do with other people, particularly visitors, as I don't compete. Along these lines, blue belts feel like white belts. The mysticism of black belt is over - they bleed too.

Really the main difference I felt is that I could tell people were getting better just from rolling with me, even my instructor. The tone that my instructors had towards me also shifted from one of student to slightly more as an equal.

In a lot of ways, I feel like it's what you've already been doing, just better.

The real perk is now your skill is high enough that you can treat rolls like active drilling whereas before you were just trying to survive. I had to wait til brown to do what I wanted bc i had to build all this foundation to get there. Also it's easier to line up bc there's usually not many brown belts.

The bad (good?) thing is everyone wants to kill you all the time, even though I'm 160lbs and not strong. At BB you have a mental advantage on people who still think BB's are gods - people give up on things they would normally power thru (referring to normal BB's, not the actual bjj gods like Galvao, Rafa, etc.). At brown you don't get to taste that yet.

Counterpoint - I always heard that by brown belt you're mostly sharpening what you already know. While I find this to be true i am also developing stuff that I only started doing at late purple belt (e.g. crucifix and arm in chokes). I really only see now that I would need a few lifetimes to learn everything. Even then...

Summary
If you're a good training partner for browns and blacks (defend some of their stuff and catch them with your own), I think your a brown belt. There is however a ton of variation as we all know.

Ultimately all it means is that you fit your instructors criteria for a brown belt. Your criteria for yourself is always a moving goal post.

Aside
I always found it funny how every school think's they are the stingiest with belts like it was something to brag about. They got a word for that - sandbagging.

The only belt that matters is black bc it's the only one you can't sandbag at. Even then it's only useful if you want to open a school and/or compete against the best.

I agree with all of this but on the flip side of the part I bolded I would also say that brown belt is cool because you have a lot of the perks of being a black belt but without all the expectations and responsibilities that go along with it.

Wait, you're actually looking FORWARD to it? I've got a big enough target on my back at purple already, I can wait 2-3 more years until brown

In some ways I think the target gets smaller. Sounds crazy but I think purple is probably the most wanted belt besides black belt. Everyone wants to tap purples so they can get there. Getting purple is like becoming a made man in the mafia. Once you're there it's like you've arrived. There's still a target for brown belts but in my experience most purple belts after a year or so feel seem to be less eager for lack of a better word. Plus I think your game is a little more respected once you get to brown so people tread more carefully with you.

Or maybe it's just that at brown you don't care anymore and are more prepared to deal with it. But I felt more targeted at purple than brown to be honest.

 

[Uchi Mata]

There's an old Zen quote that's something along the lines of 'before you have the skill it seems magical, once you develop it it seems totally ordinary'.

When this thread was started in 2010 I would have been a blue belt, at the time I was very gung ho to learn as much as possible, kept up on new developments on the competition scene religiously, and couldn't wait to move up in rank. I got my purple in late 2012 and started doing a ton of drilling on my own outside of class, really working my A-game, and I still credit the work I did in those years with a lot of the skill I have now. It was also very useful for figuring out how to improve beyond just going to class (which has a pretty low ceiling, honestly, for driving consistent improvement past late blue). By late purple I didn't really have any glaring holes in my gi game, and I felt ready when I got my brown belt. I've spent my 3.5 years as a brown belt getting my no-gi game as sharp as my gi game, working on positions I hadn't really explored much like the leg game, and focusing a great deal on grappling for MMA. The MMA work especially has really broadened my perspective to where even though I'm pretty good by any reasonable standard the ocean of martial arts knowledge that's out there leaves me feeling like everything I know is nothing special. Doesn't mean I don't value it or that I'm not confident in the things I do well, it just seems silly to think too much of being a good grappler when not only are there much, much better grapplers than me but there are also any number of fighters in other disciplines who could handle me easily.

If I was to encapsulate my current thoughts about transitioning between purple and brown, it would be that you can get to purple mostly just by knowing stuff, to get to brown you actually have to get good at BJJ. I roll with new purple belts from time to time who are doing mostly the right things and have some technical depth but there's often not a lot of interstitial tissue to their games, and if they're forced to improvise they don't always have the necessary understanding to do so. If I roll with a brown belt who feels like that, I'm going to question their rank. A brown belt should have enough skill to never feel like they're moving aimlessly or don't know what to do during a roll.

 

[mataleaos]

If I was to encapsulate my current thoughts about transitioning between purple and brown, it would be that you can get to purple mostly just by knowing stuff, to get to brown you actually have to get good at BJJ. I roll with new purple belts from time to time who are doing mostly the right things and have some technical depth but there's often not a lot of interstitial tissue to their games, and if they're forced to improvise they don't always have the necessary understanding to do so. If I roll with a brown belt who feels like that, I'm going to question their rank. A brown belt should have enough skill to never feel like they're moving aimlessly or don't know what to do during a roll.

These are my thoughts exactly. The bolded is the truest thing about getting to brown belt in my opinion.

When I got brown at first I had a big moment of "Shit, I can't be a black belt and not have a respectable closed guard, mount, and stand up game." Did you have any similar feelings, or does that 'being actually good at BJJ' aspect trump the necessity of being good at particular positions (namely the ones that were considered the most basic or fundamental)?

 

[Uchi Mata]

These are my thoughts exactly. The bolded is the truest thing about getting to brown belt in my opinion.

When I got brown at first I had a big moment of "Shit, I can't be a black belt and not have a respectable closed guard, mount, and stand up game." Did you have any similar feelings, or does that 'being actually good at BJJ' aspect trump the necessity of being good at particular positions (namely the ones that were considered the most basic or fundamental)?

I really established my game at purple, and then spent late purple and most of brown closing holes. I have a very basic but also well rounded game (I've never been super good at or just relied on getting to one specific guard or position), so there weren't any huge gaps, other than having not done a lot of no-gi and having little familiarity with no-gi specific stuff; I did spend the majority of brown belt working submission grappling rather than gi BJJ. That was less because I felt like I *had* to be good at it than I wanted to learn it. I have developed a strong belief that if you never train with strikes and never train for MMA you're missing a huge piece of what BJJ really is, and I've always felt that you needed to have decent standup to be a respectable BB even if you didn't like it. Guys who rocket through the ranks winning IBJJF tournaments and concentrate on that style of BJJ are definitely legitimate BBs, they're just not what I want to be as a BB.

I will say, there were a few things that I wasn't ever very good at that I did feel I should work on before getting my BB, namely some really basic stuff like arm bar from closed guard and cross choke from mount. If I'm teaching something as a basic to white or blue belts, I want them to feel me using it during rolling and not think that I'm teaching stuff that doesn't work because I can't personally do it well. I'm not sure you can separate being good at specific positions and being good at BJJ. If you're good at BJJ, you'll have some answer in any position even if it's something you're not ostensibly 'good at'. I'm not a big spider guard player, but if you told me I could only use spider guard against blue and purple belts I'm pretty confident I'd still roll them up because I understand how guard play works. I find myself in weird positions a lot working with very wrestling-oriented MMA fighters, but I never have to worry about what to do because as long as I can get to an arm, a leg, or a neck, or get a tight underhook/upper body control, etc. then I'm in familiar territory. There aren't really any mysteries, just endless variations on themes.

 

[Evenflow80]

Well from personal experience, as a blue, I've rolled with purples who frankly weren't that much different from our blues, but without exception the 3 or 4 browns I have rolled with were all beasts. Purples are highly respected and we address them as "coach", but there are some (like at lower belts) of various quality.

At brown, they were all killers. What I noticed the most is their pressure is insane, especially as they pass your guard, etc., even the smaller ones had insane top heavy pressure as they moved.

 

[asian-glow]

I have developed a strong belief that if you never train with strikes and never train for MMA you're missing a huge piece of what BJJ really is, and I've always felt that you needed to have decent standup to be a respectable BB even if you didn't like it. Guys who rocket through the ranks winning IBJJF tournaments and concentrate on that style of BJJ are definitely legitimate BBs, they're just not what I want to be as a BB.

1. Is it necessary or at least most effective to do MMA in order to train for striking in a grappling context?

2. If not, what is an effective way to train for ground-based striking in a BJJ class?

I am particularly concerned about the bottom player in situations where I do not have upper body control (butterfly or closed guard w/ overhook).

 

[yetanother]

1. Is it necessary or at least most effective to do MMA in order to train for striking in a grappling context?

2. If not, what is an effective way to train for ground-based striking in a BJJ class?

I am particularly concerned about the bottom player in situations where I do not have upper body control (butterfly or closed guard w/ overhook).

What's the point of training ground-based striking *if* you don't do MMA? Against untrained opponents you will murder them regardless on the ground, punching you in the face before you get to grab them is the untrained opponents main chance of victory.

 

[yetanother]

Brown is basically just a black on probation.

Dunno, as a brown belt I feel I'm an extremely long way from being able to sign up at say the IBJJF Europeans as black bet and feeling I belong there.

 

[Uchi Mata]

1. Is it necessary or at least most effective to do MMA in order to train for striking in a grappling context?

2. If not, what is an effective way to train for ground-based striking in a BJJ class?

I am particularly concerned about the bottom player in situations where I do not have upper body control (butterfly or closed guard w/ overhook).

It's not necessary, but it's very useful. Only because dealing with someone who knows how to strike from the top while maintaining position and mixing in passing is very different than dealing with your gym buddies who don't know how to strike on the ground at all. Generally speaking I think training with MMA fighters is good for anyone's BJJ, because they tend to be in great shape, they don't consent to play the normal BJJ meta-game (you have to spend a lot of energy just keeping them down), their games tend to be wrestling heavy, and they won't tap unless you really, really catch them. It tightens everything up to train with guys like that.

 

[INTERL0PER]

The grappling forum is pretty much the only thing keeping me on Sherdog.

This thread was a genuinely good read. Informative, intelligent discussion, with no trolling or bullshit.

Great stuff.

 

[mataleaos]

I really established my game at purple, and then spent late purple and most of brown closing holes. I have a very basic but also well rounded game (I've never been super good at or just relied on getting to one specific guard or position), so there weren't any huge gaps, other than having not done a lot of no-gi and having little familiarity with no-gi specific stuff; I did spend the majority of brown belt working submission grappling rather than gi BJJ. That was less because I felt like I *had* to be good at it than I wanted to learn it. I have developed a strong belief that if you never train with strikes and never train for MMA you're missing a huge piece of what BJJ really is, and I've always felt that you needed to have decent standup to be a respectable BB even if you didn't like it. Guys who rocket through the ranks winning IBJJF tournaments and concentrate on that style of BJJ are definitely legitimate BBs, they're just not what I want to be as a BB.

I will say, there were a few things that I wasn't ever very good at that I did feel I should work on before getting my BB, namely some really basic stuff like arm bar from closed guard and cross choke from mount. If I'm teaching something as a basic to white or blue belts, I want them to feel me using it during rolling and not think that I'm teaching stuff that doesn't work because I can't personally do it well. I'm not sure you can separate being good at specific positions and being good at BJJ. If you're good at BJJ, you'll have some answer in any position even if it's something you're not ostensibly 'good at'. I'm not a big spider guard player, but if you told me I could only use spider guard against blue and purple belts I'm pretty confident I'd still roll them up because I understand how guard play works. I find myself in weird positions a lot working with very wrestling-oriented MMA fighters, but I never have to worry about what to do because as long as I can get to an arm, a leg, or a neck, or get a tight underhook/upper body control, etc. then I'm in familiar territory. There aren't really any mysteries, just endless variations on themes.

Great post. Thanks for the well thought out answer.