Punching solar plexus in clinch?

[Paradigm]

thats funny actually, we've always went with "jock to jock", same thing as "cup to cup" actually. Its a bit tricky in an mma context though, that close in space, is asking for double leg city.


and when they escape like that (I'm guessing ducking out), even if they eat a knee to the head, you won't be at fualt (if TS is a fighter that's below A-class)



You;d be surprised, it seems there's a lack of thai-clinching being taught at MMA gyms (not knocking the style -- I train at a MMA gym myself, but its what I've noticed competing and viewing in ammy fights). I've seen countless guys out of instinct block knees with forearms. As I mentioned in this thread, one of our fighter's fractured his opponent's forearms like this.
The clinching they do is mostly wrestling styled clinch work. Honestly, even if its banned, it would be better to double leg, than to fracture your forearm, given they don't know the method of it.

Yeah...definitely some stuff in standup only rulesets that wouldn't transition well (like the cup to cup situation in the MT clinch). I don't think the lack of Thai clinching is just an MMA thing...many gyms that supposedly teach Muay Thai out here in LA don't really teach much of the clinch, it seems. For proof, check out local smokers and amateur fights.

Even if you can't break out of a guy's clinch, you should at least know some tricks to at least make it uncomfortable for the clincher or discourage him from clinching you. In that gif of Rich and Anderson, it looks like there was enough space for him to at least try to swim inside and break Anderson's dominant grip but he didn't even attempt it there. You can also try the putting one palm over the back of your other hand and just push away on the clincher's chin (sort of like crossfacing someone using the palm/heel of your hand). Makes it very uncomfortable for someone trying to maintain the double collar tie:



The real problem is that most MT/MMA schools don't really teach Muay Thai.

 

[Kiwi Tricker]

The real problem is that most MT/MMA schools don't really teach Muay Thai.

That's the core of the issue, really. Clinching outside of a Muay Thai context is completely different. A lot of places you will not learn proper clinching for Thai boxing, and that's not necessarily the trainers' faults because they haven't been exposed to it properly either. Everyone always looks for getting the double-collar around the back of the head- that seems to be the only dominant position in many people's eyes, but there's so much more to it than that. It's like in jujitsu- sure, mount is a great position, but you don't need to be in mount to be dominant- there's so much more that you can do to secure a good position over your opponent.

 

[j123]

That's the core of the issue, really. Clinching outside of a Muay Thai context is completely different. A lot of places you will not learn proper clinching for Thai boxing, and that's not necessarily the trainers' faults because they haven't been exposed to it properly either. Everyone always looks for getting the double-collar around the back of the head- that seems to be the only dominant position in many people's eyes, but there's so much more to it than that. It's like in jujitsu- sure, mount is a great position, but you don't need to be in mount to be dominant- there's so much more that you can do to secure a good position over your opponent.

That is an issue actually, I've come across people who relentless seek only the double collar tie, and will have nothing any short of it. When I drill single coll tie and work drills there with a teammate, they go off and say its not practical and won't work against hem who will seek a double collar... good luck with that when elbows are brought into the equation or against any decent clincher.

 

[Kanka]

You're supposed to control his arms so that he can't punch or elbow you. It also depends on what position you were in. Were you locking his arms? Tieing up his neck? Uppercuts to the chin can be thrown while the other guy is extending his arms trying to reach you with little control over you.

In this case im guessing you were grabbing his neck ans he threw an uppercut? If youre controlling his body properly he shouldnt be able to throw it hard enough to cause damage, and you should already be smashing him with knees (and in a real fight counter the punch with an elbow)

 

[aries]

If you are clinching him down well his head will be crushed to his chest and he won't be able to get off anything with enough power to trouble you. The fact that he can hurt you with punches means you don't have effective control over him.

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

If the guy has better movement or timing than you, you may not be able to lock him into the clinch, and you may not be able to avoid one of his favorite punches either, clinch or not.

 

[fluffball]

If the guy has better movement or timing than you, you may not be able to lock him into the clinch, and you may not be able to avoid one of his favorite punches either, clinch or not.

Nice try TMA guy. His take down defense via knees will be 100% .

 

[JSnake]

In a knee vs body punch scenario in the clinch; the knee is usually superior. Perhaps you were being too lazy.

'Iron' Mike Zambidis, who was one of the hardest p4p punchers in kickboxing, tried this against Kohiruimaki, and a good knee to the face put a stop that:

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

In a knee vs body punch scenario in the clinch; the knee is usually superior. Perhaps you were being too lazy.

'Iron' Mike Zambidis, who was one of the hardest p4p punchers in kickboxing, tried this against Kohiruimaki, and a good knee to the face put a stop that:

I think it also helped a lot that Zambidis was short and hunching over, making him extra short. If he was the same height or taller, it would have been significantly more difficult to do that

 

[Universal Kombat]

Knees to the head counter that nicely

You can't really knee someone on the head when they do that. And btw, is this happening in a Muay Thai setting or MMA TS?

 

[Universal Kombat]

Obviously, but I learned the hard way. I'm just wondering why we spend so much time in clinching without any reference at all to this really easy counter? From that position, a knee is easier to see coming and block then an uppercut. Yes it is a tense situation for both guys, you miss timing and you get a knee in you, but the knee is right in your face, you can see it when you are down and it is slower. You barely see the uppercut and it is easy to disguise with scrambling motions. One blocked knee and you're stunned. It just blows my mind how much they pride the clinch in MT, yes it is really effective but fighting for a clinch opens you up to more dangers than if you would just block the knee and uppercut.

I'm not hating on Muay Thai, as a matter of fact I want to learn as much of it as I can, that being said, you should see the face some Muay Thai guys make when you spar with them and you hit them with stuff that they never heard or seen of, or stuff that they were told doesn't work.