Pull and Counter/Leaning Back Opponent (need advice)

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by JonPain, May 1, 2017.

  1. JonPain White Belt

    JonPain
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    Hi,

    so i live in Europe and we have some cocky refugees in our gym. We have a cocky fighter who does BJJ and when our boxing training is about to end and we start all the sparring sessions he joins, like he doesnt need the training.

    He always does the same thing, he stays and waits until the opponent comes, he does a lot of head movement and leans back. Most guys in the gym are so stupid that they come all the time, getting pulled in and eat his hooks or right hand.

    I wasnt that stupid from the very beginning, i never chase him, i stay where i am, throw my punches and pull back when he comes. The problem is when i throw, he leans back and i cant reach him sometimes. What can i do ?

    Last time he ate my jab he got furious because i was the first to teach him a lesson, he ran at me throwing as hard as he can, made the coach yell at him telling him to calm the fuck down. I opened my guard and felt nothing, he didnt hurt me a little bit but i had a scratch on my face so everybody thought he has beaten me. Shit makes me mad !
     
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  2. Ilk Yellow Belt

    Ilk
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    First of all calm your tits regarding the refugees. I am by no means supporting what happens in my country too, but they are people and in the gym especially everyone is equal. You may get a good friend out of these guys.

    Body jabs.
    Chest jabs.
    Pre emptively duck under after your attack when you feel he can pull counter. Mix up with some blocks or you may get cought.
    Walk him to a corner. Close the distance and box so he can not pull really.
     
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  3. martonx White Belt

    martonx
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    Feint until he reacts and lean back, step in and fire.
    Double up on your jab, stepping in when throwing each jab
     
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  4. Reyesnuthugr belt

    Reyesnuthugr
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    Another vote for the double jab (also triple), also try it while advancing. That really ruins most peoples' pull/leanback because they use it instead of footwork and just get tagged as you come in because they have nowhere to go (when most people lean back their feet aren't able to move or walk well).
     
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  5. QueenVitor Orange Belt

    QueenVitor
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    I always go extra hard when sparring the refugees from my gym. They usually complain, but I can't really understand what they're saying so it really doesn't matter.
     
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  6. Bennosuke Blue Belt

    Bennosuke
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    Seconding the attacks to the body if he's leaning back. Go head body all day, just move your head off line. Jab high then low. Jab high, body cross/straight. High straight to lead body hook, ect. If he plants his feet and just leans back, this works very well.
     
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  7. freaky Freakiest Poster Belt

    freaky
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    feint, body like everyone said. If this is kickboxing, throw kicks.

    You can also try to step to their outside when they lean to get the angle. Or just storm them. Get in their pocket and throw massive body hooks. Watch out for his loaded H bombs though. You will get used to it. Eventually, you will get his timing down and move out of the way at will. There was a guy who fights like that at my gym. Waits for you to come in then unload 100% on his overhand Roy Nelson style.

    He's fat and slow so it was easy for me to dodge. Since they throw so hard, they are off balanced and I can unload numerous rapid shots. Chase them down when they try to retreat. Cut their corner and watch out for their overhand counters.

    It's easy when they're a one trick pony. Jab > right to body > side step > repeat. Guys who fight like that are also susceptible to fast rushes.
     
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  8. ssullivan80 see....what had happened was

    ssullivan80
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    As others have said, if he's leaning out of the way with his head crack him in the body. But to add to that, follow behind your body shots and bump him. I.E: Put a body on him. Follow your body shots in, get low n heavy and put your head/shoulder right in the middle of his chest. From there he'll be forced out of position, so keep low and heavy and follow him back with short shots until he's trapped (ropes or corner)........ Once he's trapped, set your feet and chop his ass down!

    In the middle of the ring, you can do this same thing but after you "bump" him add a short pivot or lateral step and attack him as he resets. rinse n repeat. The "bump n turn" (pivot or lateral step) requires controlled footwork, but it's the most effective way to take apart a guy who gets tall and leans back over his rear foot. (Hopkins vs Pavlik)
     
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  9. Chesten_Hesten The Wiener of Steel

    Chesten_Hesten
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    Something like???

    [​IMG]

    Or do the opposite, use your rear hand to parry while punching him with your lead when he throws?

    I mean if he wants to be a fucker, and counter strike and lean back, then make him initiate and counter as he throws.

    Cody Garbrandt did it against Cruz.
     
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  10. aries Red Belt

    aries
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    Do what Barrera did to Hamed when he used the lay back, follow up on him with stepping combos. His head can only move so far back and then his feet are stuck. If you follow through with stepping combos you'll be able to move further than he can by laying back. And work the body like Barrera did.
     
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  11. RichardN7 Green Belt

    RichardN7
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    Guy sounds like a faggot. I know the type, nothing I hate more than people like him.
    When he leans back a lot, you can feint high to draw a pull-back and then go to the body. Just keep the feints going and time him.
    Also, people like him usually are good on the counter, but suck when they have to come forward and attack. Think of how Garbrandt drew Cruz, the greatest defensive bantamweight, into attacking HIM and playing into Cody's game. Make him chase you (like you said you did after the jab), and as he's coming forward wild, give him a taste of his own medicine (pull back, counter. Left hook pivots, counter right straights, etc).
    Which country are you in btw? Haven't seen refugees in the gyms here in Eastern Europe yet xD
     
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  12. Yourstepdad Blue Belt

    Yourstepdad
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    Feint and pivot really fast on this motherfcker. Attack the body before you attack the head

    The guy prob has long reach? How is it compared to yours?
     
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  13. Yourstepdad Blue Belt

    Yourstepdad
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    Also, like you said, when anyone steps in he's throwing hooks: good. Don't be afraid to still step in if at least you have ok timing

    1 jump/lunge into his range. Jump towards his feet, cuz that is simply his position no matter how much his head is moving.
    2 as ur jumping you are already ducking LOW as to have the hooks fly over your head. Timing is essential here and you will have to duck quickly. Obviously you don't want to duck too early either, because then he will aim his hooks lower. (A useful tip is when his hand "leaves", you duck that same moment. He will have to pull back the hand first to do something back)
    3 your lead foot lands beside his hip, and right away you turn and start a flurry of punches at the same time. Attack the liver then the head, solar plexus, head, etcetera (low, high, low, high)
    4 step off to his back side right after your last punch

    Great that you already let him come to you and not the other way around

    The fact that he leans back also makes him immobile, so whatever you do, try to come in from his sides, or pretend to step in and then pivot
     
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  14. ssullivan80 see....what had happened was

    ssullivan80
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    That's a good way to get KTFO.........
     
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  15. Yourstepdad Blue Belt

    Yourstepdad
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    It is if you fail to execute the rest of the steps..

    When somebody has longer reach, at one point you are going to have to step/jump in

    You dont jump in just like that, but you do so when ur opponents arm is stretched out and move off to the side right away
     
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  16. AndyMaBobs Green Belt

    AndyMaBobs
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    All good advice - now those guys will be heading BACK to syria to seek refuge.

    From you.

    but no srsly - calm down, if you're having trouble you shouldn't view it as something to just get mad at
     
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  17. ssullivan80 see....what had happened was

    ssullivan80
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    IMO, it's always a better bet to take 2-3 short fast steps than it is to simply lunge in. Anytime you lunge in without your feet under you it leaves you compromised as you can't make defensive adjustments. Further, if you get caught lunging in even with an arm punch or glancing shot it's gonna feel like a much heavier shot and put you off balance and out of position (how flash knockdowns often happen). Not to say it doesn't or cant work, but the risk vs reward is much higher than taking 2 or more short, fast steps behind your jab and blending in level changes, head movement, feints, etc...... Keeping your feet under you allows you to be either offensive or defensive as need be.
     
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