Psychedelics

dirtypablo said:
Sorry, but this is just isn't true. I don't think you understand the depth of what's possible through dedicated spiritual practices. As my practice has deepened, I've become less and less interested in psychedelics, and certainly have no longer have any interest in them for spiritual exploration or growth. I would still use them for personal work, thinking of them as a supercharged therapy session, but even there I can see myself getting to a place where they're no longer valuable in that regard either.

Referring back to what @terrapin said about lack of deep humility coming from people who use psychedelics as part of their practice, I wouldn't agree with that across the board, nor do I agree with all the other things he says about them, but I can see where he's coming from. Looking at the video @TheMaster posted, its a guy who used psychedelics for many years, and has all sorts of theories and ideas about the ultimate nature of the metaphysics of reality, as well as ideas about exactly what the future holds. The experiences he describes aren't anything particularly novel, I've had plenty of similar ones as well. There's a story from Jack Kornfield, an American meditation master/teacher, about when he left his teacher Ajahn Chah to practice in a different tradition for a time. That tradition emphasized deep states of concentration, which usually result in all sorts of intense peak/mystical type experiences. When Jack came back to Ajahn Chah and told him about these mystical experiences, Ajahn smiled and said, just one more thing to let go of. The point of the story is that the peak experiences become less and less important as your practice deepens, what really matters is here and now. Taking those mystical experiences and trying to construct some vast meaning about them is just getting lost in more stories about how things are, rather than living in direct contact with reality at all times. Further, it implies that you know something that you don't - as I've progressed on the path what becomes more and more clear to me is just how little I know.

There is a saying in Zen that I think applies here, only don't know. This is something I see across traditions, that while different traditions describe it in different ways, at the core or root of all things is divine mystery. None of us know what will happen in the future, nor do any of us understand the ultimate nature of the divine - there are aspects we can attribute to its manifestations, but its ultimate nature is a mystery. Coming to accept this mystery allows one to be fully open in each moment to the divine that is always present, here and now. As you do this, psychedelics start to lose their appeal, as its clear that where they are taking you isn't in the direction towards the ultimate that is beyond any forms and always present.

I'm not saying any of this to shit on psychedelics or judge those who are using them, as I posted earlier I've used them hundreds of times and have a deep sense of gratitude towards them, and I'm sure I will use them again in the future. Each of us is on our own path, but having gone fairly deeply down both paths, I can see that there is something you can get from consistent, dedicated spiritual practices that you most likely won't ever find through psychedelics.
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I hope it doesn't sound offensive for me to say that I think your path has deepened because this is maybe one of the best posts I've ever heard from you on this topic.
 
dirtypablo said:
Sorry, but this is just isn't true. I don't think you understand the depth of what's possible through dedicated spiritual practices. As my practice has deepened, I've become less and less interested in psychedelics, and certainly have no longer have any interest in them for spiritual exploration or growth. I would still use them for personal work, thinking of them as a supercharged therapy session, but even there I can see myself getting to a place where they're no longer valuable in that regard either.

Referring back to what @terrapin said about lack of deep humility coming from people who use psychedelics as part of their practice, I wouldn't agree with that across the board, nor do I agree with all the other things he says about them, but I can see where he's coming from. Looking at the video @TheMaster posted, its a guy who used psychedelics for many years, and has all sorts of theories and ideas about the ultimate nature of the metaphysics of reality, as well as ideas about exactly what the future holds. The experiences he describes aren't anything particularly novel, I've had plenty of similar ones as well. There's a story from Jack Kornfield, an American meditation master/teacher, about when he left his teacher Ajahn Chah to practice in a different tradition for a time. That tradition emphasized deep states of concentration, which usually result in all sorts of intense peak/mystical type experiences. When Jack came back to Ajahn Chah and told him about these mystical experiences, Ajahn smiled and said, just one more thing to let go of. The point of the story is that the peak experiences become less and less important as your practice deepens, what really matters is here and now. Taking those mystical experiences and trying to construct some vast meaning about them is just getting lost in more stories about how things are, rather than living in direct contact with reality at all times. Further, it implies that you know something that you don't - as I've progressed on the path what becomes more and more clear to me is just how little I know.

There is a saying in Zen that I think applies here, only don't know. This is something I see across traditions, that while different traditions describe it in different ways, at the core or root of all things is divine mystery. None of us know what will happen in the future, nor do any of us understand the ultimate nature of the divine - there are aspects we can attribute to its manifestations, but its ultimate nature is a mystery. Coming to accept this mystery allows one to be fully open in each moment to the divine that is always present, here and now. As you do this, psychedelics start to lose their appeal, as its clear that where they are taking you isn't in the direction towards the ultimate that is beyond any forms and always present.

I'm not saying any of this to shit on psychedelics or judge those who are using them, as I posted earlier I've used them hundreds of times and have a deep sense of gratitude towards them, and I'm sure I will use them again in the future. Each of us is on our own path, but having gone fairly deeply down both paths, I can see that there is something you can get from consistent, dedicated spiritual practices that you most likely won't ever find through psychedelics.
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This is my second reply.

The meditation system that I practice has a pretty rigorous system of self-examination that goes along with it. In fact, the first one third of enlightenment in Christianity is basically completely about purification of defects of character, sins and egoic tendencies. And I just wanted to point out that the kind of insight that psychedelic bring is completely common to everyone I know who's doing a deep spiritual practice, but they get it without psychedelics. We sit down to do self-examination answering to a Christian list of character defects and sins and a cloud of power comes over us and feeds us the information we need for that session... But also that same cloud of power begins to heal and release those defects of character.

This is something everybody I know does two or three times a week and anyone who's taking it seriously is being fed very similarly to the way psychedelics does but just on a regular basis instead. But there is one difference, whereas with psychedelics you can have false insight come and have it feel profoundly true. We never ever see that in this approach because you're not on a drug that makes everything feel powerful and that can lock you into a line of reasoning while making it feel real and true. And so only the true and real feels true and real when we do it.
 
This is very different than what I'm used to. I'm tripping pretty hard. I just smoked some weed so that amped up the trip a bit, but this isn't as strong as it should be. I should be in like space right now, total euphoria, next level, dimensions opening like ecstasy. I feel like I'm tripping but this isn't that, lol. This is very subdued, no take over. Not sure. I'm fucked up but I think LSD let me down this time, and I've never felt that way before. This isn't what I expected.

There's no transcendence, I'm just fucked up, tripping.
 
HUNTERMANIA said:
This is very different than what I'm used to. I'm tripping pretty hard. I just smoked some weed so that amped up the trip a bit, but this isn't as strong as it should be. I should be in like space right now, total euphoria, next level, dimensions opening like ecstasy. I feel like I'm tripping but this isn't that, lol. This is very subdued, no take over. Not sure. I'm fucked up but I think LSD let me down this time, and I've never felt that way before. This isn't what I expected.

There's no transcendence, I'm just fucked up, tripping.
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Yeah 400, should have you flying......... You've definitely done this stuff from this supplier before?
 
HUNTERMANIA said:
This is very different than what I'm used to. I'm tripping pretty hard. I just smoked some weed so that amped up the trip a bit, but this isn't as strong as it should be. I should be in like space right now, total euphoria, next level, dimensions opening like ecstasy. I feel like I'm tripping but this isn't that, lol. This is very subdued, no take over. Not sure. I'm fucked up but I think LSD let me down this time, and I've never felt that way before. This isn't what I expected.

There's no transcendence, I'm just fucked up, tripping.
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it's the 5G bro
 
William Huggins said:
Yeah 400, should have you flying......... You've definitely done this stuff from this supplier before?
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It's new. I'm fucked up. The drugs are good. I don't think there's anything wrong with the LSD I'm just not used to interacting with it like this. The 1cp-LSD is different than the 1p-LSD (that's what all my trips were on). It's just a little bit different.
 
HUNTERMANIA said:
It's new. I'm fucked up. The drugs are good. I don't think there's anything wrong with the LSD I'm just not used to interacting with it like this.
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Hahahaha oh I get you, you think your not in but your really in very deep..... Yeah it gets like that at higher levels......
 
William Huggins said:
@HUNTERMANIA did you survive.....
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I'm good.

I smoked some more and the trip got a bit jumpy so I'm not gonna smoke anymore. Funny that I couldn't handle a bit of weed (which has never happened to me on a trip before), but I got no transcendence? IDK, weird trip.

I watched a few movies, they were pretty good. I'm gonna watch another movie and maybe a show.

I went to the beach and got in the water for sunrise, it was really cool... but I felt like I couldn't really take in the colors and everything the way I wanted to, somehow my 'trip' was between me and my perceptions? IDK, I'm tripping hard, almost too hard at times.

Lots of talk about the 'eternal now' and all of that jazz, very fun and enjoyable

tumblr_lso71kUYQh1qil395o1_500.gif


lol this gif became the image for like all my thoughts, when they passed from one eternal now into the next, this would show up and it would feel good too :)
 
I think it's just that this 1cp-LSD is stronger than 1p-LSD. 400micrograms took me a bit further than I thought and so we skipped the whole transcendence/euphoria stage... I noticed when I laid down my eyes wanted to relax to take in more of what I was seeing but I just couldn't quite make it, I couldn't quite visualize myself into where I wanted to be. And so I stopped trying, and I'm like "Ok, right, but this is where the inter-dimensional stuff comes in where space is splitting in two" but I'm just past that.

I'm gonna try 300micrograms next week, maybe I'll be more lucky. OR this is a solid difference between 1p and 1cp-LSD and sign me up for the old 1p-LSD any day.

--- I've never once had weed become an issue in any trip ever, and it did in this trip. Every time before, even smoking oils, it would just take me to space, which is what I wanted, but this time my trip got too sped up, it got jumpy for me, uncomfortable. And I was just smoking regular weed, not even oil. Something about this new LSD has me tripping so hard that I can't process the full extent of the trip. and I'm kind of like stuck with this 'trip' between me and my perceptions so I'm not relaxing into them and enjoying them as much.

Tons of word play in my head, tons of tripping over and over again.
 
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I’ve tripped on shrooms a few times and done my fair share of micro doses.

After taking what I thought was a micro dose a couple years back I’m more hesitant about doing them now. The package of chocolates said 1-2 pieces was a microdose. I took 2 and four of my friends took 1-2 thinking we were gonna just chill and have a good time. My one friend took 6. Within 10-15 minutes everyone started trippin hard and we all had to sit down. These things were intense. I’ve never had shrooms hit me so hard and fast. Makes me wonder if there was something else in these.

Tripping hard when you don’t plan on it isn’t the most fun. I wanted to be in control but couldn’t. We planned on doing a lot that day but ended up staying home until the effects mellowed out. My friend who took 6 was whacked and he had the most fun out of all of us I think.
 
Hmm... my favorite experiences so far tonight: being in the cool water in the ocean - not seeing the sunrise and all of the colors... it's like my mind is trying too hard to think and I'm just separated from my experiences. But I still FEEL things as nice, like the water, when the waves would hit me it was cold but I liked it and I felt warmth, it was really nice. Then, just now I had some oikos greek yogurt and this organic pecan maple flavored granola --- damn that tasted so good. Just immersing myself in the taste, it was like I finally got a full experience of something like the water before.
 
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