Proposed weight cut solution

[jabelar]

Just have them weigh-in octagon side, minutes before they start to fight.

The problem is there is also the business aspect -- it would be weird to have fights canceled at the moment the guy is about to enter the octagon. There would also be weird scenes like someone being a bit over and the other guy refusing to fight and them arguing in the moment and hanging up the whole event.

However if they did what you said, I guess the UFC could protect their business interests by also doing their own monitoring of the training weight to ensure it was likely they would hit weight. So it could work.

Still would be better to figure out way where fighters fight at their natural weight. The current system is so artificial while adding a real element of danger.

Regarding the fighters looking after their own health risk that doesn't work because there is a conflict of interest. The trainers, promoters, and athletes themselves are biased to push the limit. Sure a doctor should be trustworthy, but they would literally need a doctor monitoring everything round the clock for the 48 hours leading up to the fight.

 

[GBJohn]

no, for a number of reasons

+ theres the issue that your weight can fluctuate massively during the day depending on what time it is, how much youve eaten, drunk etc.

but the bigger issue would be logistics.

+ Testing is carried out on ufc fighters by anti doping agencies all around the world. they in turn use collection agencies to do the sample collection and transportation. You are literally talking hundreds of collection agencies around the world, in various countries collecting samples. Telling some random collection agency in Singapore, or Thailand, or the Dominican Republic, "by the way, you need to carry scales around with you because of some random client of USADA" it just isnt feasible. Its not simply a matter of giving ever usada collector a set of scales, you are literally talking giving thousands of sets of scales, to hundreds of collection agencies worldwide.

I've mentioned this before, but hauling around a scale ain't gonna work. Unless things have changed drastically, a scale has to be calibrated in place to be certified as accurate. This means all these folks are going to have to haul around a scale plus about 300lbs of certified weights. Is a scale you've been hauling around in your car still accurate? Probably. Unfortunately, "probably" won't cut it when you're talking financial penalties and legal challenges.

 

[drewbacca71]

The problem is there is also the business aspect -- it would be weird to have fights canceled at the moment the guy is about to enter the octagon. There would also be weird scenes like someone being a bit over and the other guy refusing to fight and them arguing in the moment and hanging up the whole event.

However if they did what you said, I guess the UFC could protect their business interests by also doing their own monitoring of the training weight to ensure it was likely they would hit weight. So it could work.

Still would be better to figure out way where fighters fight at their natural weight. The current system is so artificial while adding a real element of danger.

Regarding the fighters looking after their own health risk that doesn't work because there is a conflict of interest. The trainers, promoters, and athletes themselves are biased to push the limit. Sure a doctor should be trustworthy, but they would literally need a doctor monitoring everything round the clock for the 48 hours leading up to the fight.

agree

 

[drewbacca71]

I've mentioned this before, but hauling around a scale ain't gonna work. Unless things have changed drastically, a scale has to be calibrated in place to be certified as accurate. This means all these folks are going to have to haul around a scale plus about 300lbs of certified weights. Is a scale you've been hauling around in your car still accurate? Probably. Unfortunately, "probably" won't cut it when you're talking financial penalties and legal challenges.

the final we

I've mentioned this before, but hauling around a scale ain't gonna work. Unless things have changed drastically, a scale has to be calibrated in place to be certified as accurate. This means all these folks are going to have to haul around a scale plus about 300lbs of certified weights. Is a scale you've been hauling around in your car still accurate? Probably. Unfortunately, "probably" won't cut it when you're talking financial penalties and legal challenges.

the scale for training-cycle weight is not currently part of any regulations (it is not intended as a new regulation, only a new protocol by the fight org), so it doesn't need to meet the same standards, as a rule. If the UFC is contracting out the training weigh-ins, there are lighter travel scales that could be used (I'll assume you don't need proof that a light-weight professional certified scale for highschool wresting doesn't exist on Amazon, and only if there is an infraction, would logistics to the nearest large, expensive "official" scale be needed. You have to think about how to make this feasible, not throw out an idea because its new and presents some challenges. If there is a need to engineer a travel-scale that fits the bill, then build one. Again, this isn't rocket science, and if I'm smart enough to come up with these simplistic answers, the really smart people can truly fill in the gaps.

 

[dim_]

As far as Cyprus goes, ask yourself WWUD (What would USADA do?)

USADA would put the request in to Cyprus Anti Doping, who in turn would contact a local collect

So UFC would need to have an agreement in place with that Cyprus collection agency, as well as agreement in place with a south african collection agency, and several italian collection agencies, and several british collection agencies etc etc etc...

 

[dim_]

I've mentioned this before, but hauling around a scale ain't gonna work. Unless things have changed drastically, a scale has to be calibrated in place to be certified as accurate. This means all these folks are going to have to haul around a scale plus about 300lbs of certified weights. Is a scale you've been hauling around in your car still accurate? Probably. Unfortunately, "probably" won't cut it when you're talking financial penalties and legal challenges.

thats the other issue. Fighters would just claim the scale was badly calibrated because it had been tossed around in the boot of someones car.

That, the fact you weight can vary by 6lbs in any one day and the logistics of having scale carrying staff all over the world make it impossible

 

[dim_]

the final we


the scale for training-cycle weight is not currently part of any regulations (it is not intended as a new regulation, only a new protocol by the fight org), so it doesn't need to meet the same standards, as a rule. If the UFC is contracting out the training weigh-ins, there are lighter travel scales that could be used (I'll assume you don't need proof that a light-weight professional certified scale for highschool wresting doesn't exist on Amazon, and only if there is an infraction, would logistics to the nearest large, expensive "official" scale be needed. You have to think about how to make this feasible, not throw out an idea because its new and presents some challenges. If there is a need to engineer a travel-scale that fits the bill, then build one. Again, this isn't rocket science, and if I'm smart enough to come up with these simplistic answers, the really smart people can truly fill in the gaps.

right.. so now you need to

+ create a scale that is able to be used worldwide, is portable, without any calibration issues, invent and then manufacture several thousand

+ form a company or group of companies worldwide that are able to weigh anybody, anywhere, any time, any place

and it would still be wide open to fighters simply saying "i had a big lunch" to explain a 2lb weight gain

 

[BLACKWOLF]

The cost of failure just needs to be higher 40% of purse and for repeat offenders have the contract state if weight is missed by 3+ lbs or if a fight is pulled due to a botched weight cut the fighter will only be offered fights in the weight class above.

 

[drewbacca71]

USADA would put the request in to Cyprus Anti Doping, who in turn would contact a local collect

So UFC would need to have an agreement in place with that Cyprus collection agency, as well as agreement in place with a south african collection agency, and several italian collection agencies, and several british collection agencies etc etc etc...

The UFC certainly has the weight and backing to make any kind of deal like that necessary. Is your claim that the UFC can't accomplish this? Not sure where you're headed here.

 

[drewbacca71]

right.. so now you need to

+ create a scale that is able to be used worldwide, is portable, without any calibration issues, invent and then manufacture several thousand

+ form a company or group of companies worldwide that are able to weigh anybody, anywhere, any time, any place

and it would still be wide open to fighters simply saying "i had a big lunch" to explain a 2lb weight gain

Professional portable scales already exist. Zeroing can be done onsite prior to a weigh-in. Only flagged weigh-in would be sent to the "spendy" official scale. Hire local services willing to perform the random weigh-in. And no, you don't need approval from every possible official to hire someone to do this (you can't believe that). Having a "big lunch" or any other reason not acceptable during a final weigh-in would not somehow become acceptable during a random one. I've now solved all your problems, with almost no background in the area. What else you got?

 

[dim_]

The UFC certainly has the weight and backing to make any kind of deal like that necessary. Is your claim that the UFC can't accomplish this? Not sure where you're headed here.

the ufc cant even manage to have backup fighters on the same card as title fights in case someone pulls out..

you really think they are capable of organising a global scale weighing program..

on many levels the UFC are pretty amatuer

 

[dim_]

Having a "big lunch" or any other reason not acceptable during a final weigh-in would not somehow become acceptable during a random one. I've now solved all your problems, with almost no background in the area. What else you got?

because official weigh-ins are at a set time that the fighter is aware of, so clearly they wouldnt have a big lunch prior to weighing in


but "random" weighing would be at random times, so of course you would have to account for how much they eaten, how much they had drunk etc.. unless you inform them in advance of the time, but that would defeat the object


if you turn up to weigh me at 2pm, ive just finished gym so ive drank a couple litres of water to hydrate and have had a big meal, and you tell me im 2lb over my target i would tell you to fuck off

 

[drewbacca71]

the ufc cant even manage to have backup fighters on the same card as title fights in case someone pulls out..

you really think they are capable of organising a global scale weighing program..

on many levels the UFC are pretty amatuer

Getting someone local and independent would be about as difficult as getting a local independent qualified Notary to come to your home or workplace. Easy, happens every day. Getting an official world-wide body to handle this is much more difficult, as you say, but over time, definitely possible. Let's grab the low-hanging fruit first and leave the big logistic questions to the business peeps. Getting a local qualified person to zero out a professional scale can't be beyond the UFCs reach. Its not even above my reach.

 

[drewbacca71]

because official weigh-ins are at a set time that the fighter is aware of, so clearly they wouldnt have a big lunch prior to weighing in


but "random" weighing would be at random times, so of course you would have to account for how much they eaten, how much they had drunk etc.. unless you inform them in advance of the time, but that would defeat the object


if you turn up to weigh me at 2pm, ive just finished gym so ive drank a couple litres of water to hydrate and have had a big meal, and you tell me im 2lb over my target i would tell you to fuck off

No, the official performing the weigh-in would never take any of that into consideration. The weight range during training is already a known by UFC fighters and staff. That range is key to how THEY must account for what weight class now makes sense under the new protocol. They as a team are responsible to consider this prior to signing a fight contract. We should not complicate the job of the weight tech. Zeroing out a small professional scale is something most people can learn to do quickly. The protocol would be set by the UFC, since the training tests are not yet regulated.

 

[bufetadanacara]

The solution is fewer weight classes and larger differences between classes.

Open
210
180
150


Also, weigh in just before the fight.

 

[jeff7b9]

OneFC's policy is the best solution I have seen.

 

[drewbacca71]

The solution is fewer weight classes and larger differences between classes.

Open
210
180
150


Also, weigh in just before the fight.

weigh-in before the fight wouldn't necessarily stop the incentive to drop a lot of weight in weeks leading up. I think the goal is for the training weight to more closely match the fight time weight.

 

[Willek]

How about this?

Each fighter signs a contract that they have to weigh x amount on a day before the fight. Failure to do so means they breach that contract and will be punished.

Sounds fair?

 

[drewbacca71]

OneFC's policy is the best solution I have seen.

I like the dehydration test, but read that even the gold standard of plasma osmolarity can't prove how long they have been dehydration. I like the idea of week long dehydration testing though. Maybe that's the easiest way for now?

 

[drewbacca71]

OneFC's policy is the best solution I have seen.

Could the althetes game that system with a method to lower solutes in the urine or otherwise confused the dehydration test the week of? Like a drug that modifies how the kidneys respond to dehydration? I imagine some expert could figure out a way to game that system, whereas a random training camp weigh-in would be very difficult to 'game' away.