Preserving The Arts

[j123]

Look at movies and tv these days. Fight scenes are more MMA oriented than TMA. A decade ago getting trained by a secret master in an urban city was still a thing, now its very fringe, and if it does show it, everyone cringes at it. So if in tv and media its already declined significantly, the business of it for sure has taken a dive

As for Japan, whatever is available scholastically is what they're focused on. Funny thing is, Kendo is actually very popular still. But Baseball is the GOAT there

 

[shincheckin]

I object to your use of the term "McDojo style". With few exceptions, the effectiveness of a martial art depends mostly on the quality of the Dojo/instructors. To use an example, there's a shitload of kickboxing and Muay Thai gyms in my area, a lot of them can't even teach you a proper stance or footwork but you get to bang out 10 hit combos on the pads. They suck at teaching effective fighting skills, so by your definition Muay Thai and kickboxing are also "McDojo styles". The only thing that wouldn't be a "McDojo style" is boxing since they actually teach proper fundamentals and concepts for fighting in most gyms. When your definition is that broad it's next to meaningless, as it can be applied to pretty much any martial art or fighting style which I feel like shitting on.

As for losing the traditional martial arts, I think it was slowly happening anyway, at least in my area. For instance, did you know that there's elbow strikes in TKD? There are. But when my former instructor retires, if he hasn't done so already, there will only be one person I know of to carry on those teachings.

even boxing has gone "mcdojo" with the 10 hit combos on the pads etc.

 

[FightGuyOpenMind]

I object to your use of the term "McDojo style". With few exceptions, the effectiveness of a martial art depends mostly on the quality of the Dojo/instructors. To use an example, there's a shitload of kickboxing and Muay Thai gyms in my area, a lot of them can't even teach you a proper stance or footwork but you get to bang out 10 hit combos on the pads. They suck at teaching effective fighting skills, so by your definition Muay Thai and kickboxing are also "McDojo styles". The only thing that wouldn't be a "McDojo style" is boxing since they actually teach proper fundamentals and concepts for fighting in most gyms. When your definition is that broad it's next to meaningless, as it can be applied to pretty much any martial art or fighting style which I feel like shitting on.

As for losing the traditional martial arts, I think it was slowly happening anyway, at least in my area. For instance, did you know that there's elbow strikes in TKD? There are. But when my former instructor retires, if he hasn't done so already, there will only be one person I know of to carry on those teachings.

My Shotokan instructor is from Peru. I don't know if I should credit his understanding of Shotokan to growing up there, but I have never met a person with such an understanding of kata application in person as he seems to have.

A trait you see in some TMA gyms is that they usually are compliant when an instructor or black belt gives a demonstration. Where this originated I do not know. However, I feel it gives a false sense of confidence to those who adhere to the teaching. When my instructor applies techniques they actually hurt, bad, and quick.

I always think, what happens when he passes away. Will there be others even in our gym who are competent in passing on the knowledge he is trying to pass on to his students? That is largely what I mean by preserving the arts. When these legitimate instructors pass, if their is no one to carry the torch will they fade?

There seems to even be a gap in karate as it stands today. I hear conflicting stories on the origins of things all the time. I heard the Chinese brought what became karate to the Ryukyu Kingdom. I also read an article that modern karate can credit India to its creation.

 

[FightGuyOpenMind]

even boxing has gone "mcdojo" with the 10 hit combos on the pads etc.

They saw Floyd doing mitt work, and the young guys lost their minds. lol

 

[j123]

even boxing has gone "mcdojo" with the 10 hit combos on the pads etc.

Wait til you see MT mcDojos, there was one that gold on here years ago. They were doing muay thai katas, it was awesome. They'd wear their "nak muay" outfit, but have a color belt tied on their waist and it was a 10-20 combination. Each strike everyone was going "ish!" and it was all coordinated. Fucking classic

 

[CFGroup]

I agree it will be preserved in some context. People aren't on a national scale just practicing martial arts in Japan however. They have other interests. Japanese Judo did clean up in Rio, but the everyday person is not walking around with martial arts on the brain. The youth are very interested in other sports like basketball, and baseball. They are also very interested in hip hop, many American inspired things.

I guess my post was actually more about the state of TMAs in America. People, especially youth, are more interested in MMA culture. As the older generation of TMA enthusiasts retire, or die my question is what happens to their arts? Will they largely die with them?

God willing in their watered down state.

 

[shincheckin]

Wait til you see MT mcDojos, there was one that gold on here years ago. They were doing muay thai katas, it was awesome. They'd wear their "nak muay" outfit, but have a color belt tied on their waist and it was a 10-20 combination. Each strike everyone was going "ish!" and it was all coordinated. Fucking classic

nearly every MT gym in the US is a McDojo.

 

[j123]

nearly every MT gym in the US is a McDojo.

Really? McDojo as in a conman's gym or do you mean compared to Thailand the gap is so high its a "McD"?

Over here the gyms are good for the most part, they have a competition team, show decent technique and go over clinching. Its not Thailand, but I wouldn't say its a McDojo. Canada and 'mercia are pretty similar so I can't really see an influx of most of the gyms being trickery. Esp. in a combat sport rich state like Cali

 

[shincheckin]

Really? McDojo as in a conman's gym or do you mean compared to Thailand the gap is so high its a "McD"?

Over here the gyms are good for the most part, they have a competition team, show decent technique and go over clinching. Its not Thailand, but I wouldn't say its a McDojo. Canada and 'mercia are pretty similar so I can't really see an influx of most of the gyms being trickery. Esp. in a combat sport rich state like Cali

Generally speaking most MT gyms in the US are McDojos, its quite hard to find a gym capable, and WILLING to take its students all the way to the top, as its more money to run Boxercise, or McDojo kids type stuff.

I think Canada overall has a higher level of MT than the US.

Canada has a high french population, the french are good in MT, the french colonized cambodia as well, I think canada has a decent thai population as well. Canada seems to be much more international than the US. The US is in its own little bubble

 

[j123]

Generally speaking most MT gyms in the US are McDojos, its quite hard to find a gym capable, and WILLING to take its students all the way to the top, as its more money to run Boxercise, or McDojo kids type stuff.

I think Canada overall has a higher level of MT than the US.

Canada has a high french population, the french are good in MT, the french colonized cambodia as well, I think canada has a decent thai population as well. Canada seems to be much more international than the US. The US is in its own little bubble

hmmm interesting. I do know MMA is crazy huge in the states, most of the gyms here when competing in MT, are actual MT gyms; Whereas whenever we went to freedom nation, it was 70:30 of MMA gyms to MT gyms

For awhile here (Ontario), MT was banned, so we all had to head to the states or overseas to get fights. Only about a few years ago did it get cleared as an ammy sport, but thats just part of things here. Culture-wise anything that has some risk associated will be banned until years later after appeals. Population-wise we're still alot smaller than the states, larger land mass per person, but total pop is smaller.

 

[shincheckin]

hmmm interesting. I do know MMA is crazy huge in the states, most of the gyms here when competing in MT, are actual MT gyms; Whereas whenever we went to freedom nation, it was 70:30 of MMA gyms to MT gyms

For awhile here (Ontario), MT was banned, so we all had to head to the states or overseas to get fights. Only about a few years ago did it get cleared as an ammy sport, but thats just part of things here. Culture-wise anything that has some risk associated will be banned until years later after appeals. Population-wise we're still alot smaller than the states, larger land mass per person, but total pop is smaller.

Murica is #1 lol

 

[FightGuyOpenMind]

Generally speaking most MT gyms in the US are McDojos, its quite hard to find a gym capable, and WILLING to take its students all the way to the top, as its more money to run Boxercise, or McDojo kids type stuff.

I think Canada overall has a higher level of MT than the US.

Canada has a high french population, the french are good in MT, the french colonized cambodia as well, I think canada has a decent thai population as well. Canada seems to be much more international than the US. The US is in its own little bubble

Don't Cambodia and Thailand share a border? Did they help with developing MT?

 

[shincheckin]

Don't Cambodia and Thailand share a border? Did they help with developing MT?

yes and yes, and since france colonized cambodia, the french have a much higher exposure to muay thai

france has great fighters like JCS for example

 

[FightGuyOpenMind]

yes and yes, and since france colonized cambodia, the french have a much higher exposure to muay thai

france has great fighters like JCS for example

That's pretty legit. I know they argue over at that dang Preah Vihear Temple. Settle it with a MT match. lol. In all seriousness, that's awesome. Do the French do it fundamentally like the Thais. I'm asking because I know some places take a style and put their own signature on it. Is this true with France, that you've noticed?

 

[shincheckin]

That's pretty legit. I know they argue over at that dang Preah Vihear Temple. Settle it with a MT match. lol. In all seriousness, that's awesome. Do the French do it fundamentally like the Thais. I'm asking because I know some places take a style and put their own signature on it. Is this true with France, that you've noticed?

im not sure, the french have savate, and also do kickboxing with the pants and booties so im sure that influences their muay thai.

I have trained with and met many people....outside of "celebrities" like Saenchai, JWP, and Coban........the best fighter and coach I heve met/had was french, by the name of Clement Lacroix. Very high level fighter, came to the US to fight, and would have easily made a name for himself on Kevin Ross type status, but he was injured after only a few fights here in the states, and so his stay here was brief, he had to leave "the best country in the world" due to its shitty healthcare system and go back to france to get a needed surgery.

 

[FightGuyOpenMind]

im not sure, the french have savate, and also do kickboxing with the pants and booties so im sure that influences their muay thai.

I have trained with and met many people....outside of "celebrities" like Saenchai, JWP, and Coban........the best fighter and coach I heve met/had was french, by the name of Clement Lacroix. Very high level fighter, came to the US to fight, and would have easily made a name for himself on Kevin Ross type status, but he was injured after only a few fights here in the states, and so his stay here was brief, he had to leave "the best country in the world" due to its shitty healthcare system and go back to france to get a needed surgery.

I looked at his highlights. Amazing stuff. He is a southpaw? Are you southpaw, and did that affect him coaching you at all if you aren't?

 

[shincheckin]

I looked at his highlights. Amazing stuff. He is a southpaw? Are you southpaw, and did that affect him coaching you at all if you aren't?

it was a benefit, I dont have a problem fighting someone who is southpaw. I am orthodox but I can fight southpaw if I want or need to.

 

[Inquisitus]

Do the French do it fundamentally like the Thais. I'm asking because I know some places take a style and put their own signature on it. Is this true with France, that you've noticed?

If you watch French Nak Muays such as Dany Bill and aforementioned JCS, they fight authentic Thai style. Not noticeable addition of savate or karate or other things like the Dutch punch/low kick spam.

 

[CFGroup]

Generally speaking most MT gyms in the US are McDojos, its quite hard to find a gym capable, and WILLING to take its students all the way to the top, as its more money to run Boxercise, or McDojo kids type stuff.

I think Canada overall has a higher level of MT than the US.

Canada has a high french population, the french are good in MT, the french colonized cambodia as well, I think canada has a decent thai population as well. Canada seems to be much more international than the US. The US is in its own little bubble

"What'ever's on the boobtube's what I watch..."

I've said it a hundred times but most of American MA was cobbled together by service guys who'd deployed for a tour and trained a year. They came home, made up the rest from what they'd seen higher ranks doing but never been coached in the detail.

Many of the Korean, Japanese and probably Tai immigrants have the ingrained cultural reluctance to commercially publicize and operate on the tradition of students seeking them out or like me stumbling on them by accident, usually training and coaching in humble facilities few would notice. It's no wonder that in '93 the Gracie's "shocked" the country by having a developed skill passed down from a legit Japanese source they could commercialize and throw on the "tube" and make millions.

We ate it up watching guys roll around on the ground grabbing each other calling that "the best way to fight!"

 

[Tayski]

I'm so glad I don't live in America... I've lived in 3 different countries here in Europe and always had plenty of choices with legit instruction in pretty much any martial art I'd want.