Powerlifting exposed

j123 said:
http://vendettafighter.com/breaking-jon-jones-off-ufc-200-due-possible-doping-violation/
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Ah okay so we don't know what it was yet.

This SUCKS man! I really wanted to just get this fight over with. I don't think they will go through that buildup again, frankly no one wants to see that again. Two days out man what kind of time is that to break a test from a month ago!! ARRRGRGHAGRH! Damn that's a hard blow to the UFC as well.... ARRGGGHH..

............

fuu.jpg
 
Well Jones kinda has a point, drugs are just much better than powerlifting for everything!
 
The type of test wouldn't pop you for drugs of abuse, so it's got to be a PED or masking agent (or false positive thereof)

Sano said:
Ah okay so we don't know what it was yet.

This SUCKS man! I really wanted to just get this fight over with. I don't think they will go through that buildup again, frankly no one wants to see that again. Two days out man what kind of time is that to break a test from a month ago!! ARRRGRGHAGRH! Damn that's a hard blow to the UFC as well.... ARRGGGHH..

............

fuu.jpg
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I love how strength and power is enhanced for every sport athlete except for our precious fighters. Such special bodies.


It's really fuckin simple. You can produce more force the stronger you are. The most effective way to get stronger is by training barbell movements. Powerlifting is just a sport that tests the 1rm in those three main movements.

You wouldn't train for soccer to be a better basketball player. You don't train for powerlifting to be a better fighter. What you do is get stronger and get better endurance. That's best done through proper strength and conditioning. The end. Ask yourself this.... Would you be a more effective fighter if you were stronger? If that answer is yes, then fucking strength train. If the answer is no, then don't.

Just stop acting like fighters are the only athletes to need force production.
 
jgarner said:
I love how strength and power is enhanced for every sport athlete except for our precious fighters. Such special bodies.


It's really fuckin simple. You can produce more force the stronger you are. The most effective way to get stronger is by training barbell movements. Powerlifting is just a sport that tests the 1rm in those three main movements.

You wouldn't train for soccer to be a better basketball player. You don't train for powerlifting to be a better fighter. What you do is get stronger and get better endurance. That's best done through proper strength and conditioning. The end. Ask yourself this.... Would you be a more effective fighter if you were stronger? If that answer is yes, then fucking strength train. If the answer is no, then don't.

Just stop acting like fighters are the only athletes to need force production.
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The thing is, it's not all about "force". That is in the equation but It's also about agility, reaction time, speed, quickness, how fast you can create force, accuracy, balance, mobility, elasticity, kinetic chain, and conditioning. Barbells are a great way to get strong in a certain plane of movement. But there are endless planes of movement in a cage fight.

And I'm not saying barbells cannot help. They can. But there have been many champion fighters that don't use barbells and you would not consider to have good numbers in the big 3 barbell lifts.

Jon Jones was actually a much better fighter several years ago when he wasn't putting up the big powerlifting numbers.

Some guys are doing body weight stuff, throwing medicine balls, swinging axes and sledgehammers, using dumbells, kettlebells, sandbags, doing plyometrics, climbing, using ropes to get stronger. And they are using many more planes of movement to gain strength in. Some add barbells to that list. But its not the end all and be all of strength training.

And I do believe there is a reason why powerlifters get to the point where they can't move as well. Contrast that with a gymnast who masters the movement of his own body.

My point is that there are many ways for athletes to get stronger.
 
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jgarner said:
I love how strength and power is enhanced for every sport athlete except for our precious fighters. Such special bodies.


It's really fuckin simple. You can produce more force the stronger you are. The most effective way to get stronger is by training barbell movements. Powerlifting is just a sport that tests the 1rm in those three main movements.

You wouldn't train for soccer to be a better basketball player. You don't train for powerlifting to be a better fighter. What you do is get stronger and get better endurance. That's best done through proper strength and conditioning. The end. Ask yourself this.... Would you be a more effective fighter if you were stronger? If that answer is yes, then fucking strength train. If the answer is no, then don't.

Just stop acting like fighters are the only athletes to need force production.
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This.
Football (NFL), Sprinting, Baseball, even Basketball.. but somehow closed minded folks chalk it up to "those sports are different from fighting". I've had a guy tell me lifting isn't going to help me at all because lifting will automatically make me 20lbs heavier, slower, will slow my metabolsim down (lol), and a guy who's 1-3" taller than me will always be naturally stronger and explosive than me despite having weaker numbers, lower box jump, and slower 40 yard dash. It should be noted the guy "lifted" like a bro for a few months while being devout on not tracking calories and macros, made no improvements and chalked weight training as a farce.
I literally said, I compete at lightweight, and cut 15lbs of water while maintaining my strength, the other dude doesn't know how to cut, and diets down to 160 and water cuts 5lbs, so 24h later I'll be 170ish while he's going to be 162 tops, weak and worn out.
Dude still was confident the 3" would render my strength useless.

I've been taking lifting and strength training more seriously since Nov. and the results on the mats and ring (MT) have been nothing but great. Due to being stronger than alot of the folks I roll with (and I'm not even that strong at all -- 235bp, 325sq, 415dl @ 175), they gas out alot faster than I do (stronger guy will exert less strength resisting, while the weaker one will exert near everything to match or overcome).
-Speed and VO2 max hasn't decreased
-explosive strength is a bit better
-metabolsim has shot to the roof (TDEE before was 2800, now its 3200-3250). I can eat more so thats a plus to anyone's book.
-maximal strength is going up (obviously)
-muscle imbalance is somewhat better as well, I don't get injuries easily as I did before, which includes neck cramps from occasionally sleeping in awkward positions.

Guys who subbed me easily before, are now having a harder time doing so, and when I do get subbed, its by stuff I'm not very familiar with such as leg attacks; And they're usually wiped after managing to land that sub.

If the planning and scheduling is done properly, there is literally no cons to it. It does take time, so I guess people who assume getting on a program and will have record breaking strength in 1 camp (8 weeks) are disappointed when they don't. I didn't see anything of real significance until the 4-5th month mark.
 
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The more athletes I train, the more I tend to think that good athletes are good athletes and strength training enhances them (to an extent).

Bad athletes are bad athletes and no amount of weight training is going to save them.

The guys in-between have to struggle with everything just to hope they can keep up, and lifting weights is one of the things that can help them in their struggle.
 
ripskater said:
The thing is, it's not all about "force". That is in the equation but It's also about agility, reaction time, speed, quickness, how fast you can create force, accuracy, balance, mobility, elasticity, kinetic chain, and conditioning. Barbells are a great way to get strong in a certain plane of movement. But there are endless planes of movement in a cage fight.

And I'm not saying barbells cannot help. They can. But there have been many champion fighters that don't use barbells and you would not consider to have good numbers in the big 3 barbell lifts.

Jon Jones was actually a much better fighter several years ago when he wasn't putting up the big powerlifting numbers.

Some guys are doing body weight stuff, throwing medicine balls, swinging axes and sledgehammers, using dumbells, kettlebells, sandbags, doing plyometrics, climbing, using ropes to get stronger. And they are using many more planes of movement to gain strength in. Some add barbells to that list. But its not the end all and be all of strength training.

And I do believe there is a reason why powerlifters get to the point where they can't move as well. Contrast that with a gymnast who masters the movement of his own body.

My point is that there are many ways for athletes to get stronger.
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Saying he was a "much better fighter" is a bit daring considering that he's had one fight after a long layoff and that it was the only fight for which he did that much lifting.
He also struggled against the other guy who was similar to OSP body wise and maybe even stylistically in Gustaffson even if he may have not been 100% vs Gustaffson either.

It's also not as if Jones lifted for the first time vs Gustaffson. He was doing weights before that he said it and there were videos of him squatting and deadlifting long before the OSP fight he just started taking it more seriously and doing it more
 
ripskater said:
The thing is, it's not all about "force". That is in the equation but It's also about agility, reaction time, speed, quickness, how fast you can create force, accuracy, balance, mobility, elasticity, kinetic chain, and conditioning. Barbells are a great way to get strong in a certain plane of movement. But there are endless planes of movement in a cage fight.

And I'm not saying barbells cannot help. They can. But there have been many champion fighters that don't use barbells and you would not consider to have good numbers in the big 3 barbell lifts.

Jon Jones was actually a much better fighter several years ago when he wasn't putting up the big powerlifting numbers.

Some guys are doing body weight stuff, throwing medicine balls, swinging axes and sledgehammers, using dumbells, kettlebells, sandbags, doing plyometrics, climbing, using ropes to get stronger. And they are using many more planes of movement to gain strength in. Some add barbells to that list. But its not the end all and be all of strength training.

And I do believe there is a reason why powerlifters get to the point where they can't move as well. Contrast that with a gymnast who masters the movement of his own body.

My point is that there are many ways for athletes to get stronger.
Click to expand...


Your body has a horizontal push and pull, a vertical push and pull, a knee extension and hip hinge. Saying there are "endless planes of movement" is irrelevant. Your muscles can only tense or relax, they don't know or care which way is up or down or whatever.

If I linearly progress my deadlift, bench and squat so I'm lifting twice as much I'll be stronger in whatever movement I do, your body is not like "my deadlift has gone from 200 to 400 pounds but that only helps me picking up a weighted barbell off the ground". No, any movement which uses the muscles of the deadlift (which is pretty much most of them as dead hits nearly everything cept chest and tris) will now be pretty much twice as strong too.
 
aus101 said:
Your body has a horizontal push and pull, a vertical push and pull, a knee extension and hip hinge. Saying there are "endless planes of movement" is irrelevant. Your muscles can only tense or relax, they don't know or care which way is up or down or whatever.

If I linearly progress my deadlift, bench and squat so I'm lifting twice as much I'll be stronger in whatever movement I do, your body is not like "my deadlift has gone from 200 to 400 pounds but that only helps me picking up a weighted barbell off the ground". No, any movement which uses the muscles of the deadlift (which is pretty much most of them as dead hits nearly everything cept chest and tris) will now be pretty much twice as strong too.
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The big 3 powerlifts are good at training prime movers in a stable environment in a certain plane of motion. The problem is, that most athletics is not like that. So over time, you get an over abundance of prime mover training in a single planes compared to the muscles that help you move in all planes. You may think that endless planes of movement is irrelevant. Fact is that over time, power lifters do not move well in other planes. They will even admit that to you. Powerlifters become strong in certain planes of movement, but will move inefficiently in other planes of movement. And it happens over time due to the type of training they focus on.

And I'm not saying that an athlete can't benefit from the big 3 powerlifts.
 
What I think rip is saying is that becoming better at a specific lift can be due to simply becoming more efficient at that particular movement. A lot of powerlifters (Dan Green comes to mind) specifically talk about powerlifting being a sport like any other. Benching is a skill, deadlifting is a skill, squatting is a skill. Improving in one of those lifts doesn't necessarily translate to the ability to move more weight or be stronger in several other movements.

The above is true, but mostly irrelevant unless you reach the higher levels.
 
Oblivian said:
What I think rip is saying is that becoming better at a specific lift can be due to simply becoming more efficient at that particular movement. A lot of powerlifters (Dan Green comes to mind) specifically talk about powerlifting being a sport like any other. Benching is a skill, deadlifting is a skill, squatting is a skill. Improving in one of those lifts doesn't necessarily translate to the ability to move more weight or be stronger in several other movements.

The above is true, but mostly irrelevant unless you reach the higher levels.
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I would only say that I believe in training dozens of movements. My son is at the age where he is wanting to work out. We do dozens of things. Many movement exercises. Trying to open up more and better use of his body and get him stronger in areas he may have trouble. And some of them aren't in the realm of the big 3.
 
It's funny to me that people will get all bent out of shape when someone argues that someone stronger at lifting gets ragdolled by a wrestle. They will say that a wrestler is just better at leverages. A lot of that holds true with lifters too. They are very efficient at their lift and understanding the position + leverages. Look at someone like Candito. He was only pressing 180 lbs at the time he was totaling 1505 lbs. He was just much more efficient at what he practiced - the big 3.
 
Oblivian said:
It's funny to me that people will get all bent out of shape when someone argues that someone stronger at lifting gets ragdolled by a wrestle. They will say that a wrestler is just better at leverages. A lot of that holds true with lifters too. They are very efficient at their lift and understanding the position + leverages. Look at someone like Candito. He was only pressing 180 lbs at the time he was totaling 1505 lbs. He was just much more efficient at what he practiced - the big 3.
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I have no issue admitting that I know a lot of guys who are weaker than me or don't even lift that could ragdoll me. I'm just kind of good at doing 3 separate barbell movements.

Like you said, powerlifting, like anything else, is a sport. Skill, leverages, and efficiency of movement matter just as much as the strength part.
 
JimRussel said:
I have no issue admitting that I know a lot of guys who are weaker than me or don't even lift that could ragdoll me. I'm just kind of good at doing 3 separate barbell movements.

Like you said, powerlifting, like anything else, is a sport. Skill, leverages, and efficiency of movement matter just as much as the strength part.
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It's normally not the strong guys like you or ones that compete that get bent out of shape about it. I think most that compete start to see the sporting side of it and obviously guys that get really strong understand how important positioning is. Through the years, I've seen many that rarely talk about that aspect and just assume their overall strength in everything is improving.
 
JimRussel said:
I have no issue admitting that I know a lot of guys who are weaker than me or don't even lift that could ragdoll me. I'm just kind of good at doing 3 separate barbell movements.

Like you said, powerlifting, like anything else, is a sport. Skill, leverages, and efficiency of movement matter just as much as the strength part.
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And you are one of the best lifters on here. Respect.

I could probably strenght train my entire life and never get close to the numbers you have. I've only part timed in PL, and I'm not very good, but I can very much appreciate the continuous effort and dedication it takes to get somewhere decent. That's what I admire about good lifters, they put years and years in and always go do their work.

I used to work as a mover/garbage man with a pretty serious competitive powerlifter. Very nice guy, one of the hardest workers I have ever met. The thing was, he never complained. He worked more hours than anyone else and always kept up his training too, and never a peep about how hard the job was(I complained on more than a few occasions lol). He didn't really talk about training either, he just did it.
 
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