Potential Title Picture In Women's Flyweight.

[executionermma]

What in my post implied that Shevchenko x Nunes 2 was the WORST robbery? I said it was SOME of the worst judging ever seen in the sport which it clearly was. "Both could have won" no, both could NOT have won. If you watch the round by round break down clips I linked you can clearly see how Shevchenko outstruck Nunes for 4 rounds but was robbed due to a take down Nunes did NOTHING with but proceed to get outstruck in Shevchenko's guard.

it wasn't that bad, she didn't outstruck Nunes for 4 rounds either and she certainly wasn't robbed (people throw that word too much at MMA), i could make a case that both did nothing at most rounds

i'll say it again: i scored 3-2 to Valentina but i already knew it could go either way, it was a terrible performance by Valentina and by Nunes

 

[kuka45]

You're trying to claim Shevchenko is an inferior fighter because she hasn't held a UFC title so I brought up the fact she hasn't been finished compared to the fighters you listed despite having a resume equally as impressive excluding Joanna's resume. This isn't even taking Shevchenko's size disadvantage into account.

Listen being finished at high level in mma is actually impossible to avoid. In wmma every new chmapion finished old champion, this how it works at least in wmma, check records.
I'm tired of listening how fantastic fighter is Valetnina when she won 3 fights in UFC, one split, one decision, one finish. I don't give a flying fuck about size advantage becuase DJ is fine as udnersized flyweight and 13 win streak being almost always smaller guy.
I don't claim Shev is inferior fighter. Better fighter not always win. Cro Cop lost to Shaub or Gonzaga. GSP to Serra etc. etc. luck is part of fighting and sometimes better fighter will lose or will get finished, especially if he is offensive one type.

What does age have to do with anything lol? Everyone gets into the UFC at a different time and everyone's level of activity is different as well. If you can't watch Shevchenko's fights and compare her skill level to other WMMA fighters and see how much more refined her striking/Fight IQ is then Idk what to tell you then your fight analysis must be garbage lol.

Becuase this forum is about UFC, and mostly nobody would care about 3-2 UFC male fighter even with superior skill and acollades. Shev is not HUnt, who can knock out 2 times bigger guys than him.

Once again I dont care that Valentina Shevchenko used to fight at Flyweight. She has ZERO losses at 125 and it will be the same in the UFC until she retires.

I've heard this talking many times before. She can have zero losses, but without UFC belt it will mean nothing. If he will challange fighters like Paige Van Zant then for sure she will stay undeafeted. If she will win belt and have to defend it multiple times, not really, because her mma game is already defined and 5 fights in UFC is enough for her oponnents to analyze her game, what we could see during Nunes vs Shev 2. She can be undeafeated as flyweight same like Manny Pac is undeafeated as strawweight, who cares really.

 

[Frozen Sea]

Listen being finished at high level in mma is actually impossible to avoid. In wmma every new chmapion finished old champion, this how it works at least in wmma, check records.
I'm tired of listening how fantastic fighter is Valetnina when she won 3 fights in UFC, one split, one decision, one finish. I don't give a flying fuck about size advantage becuase DJ is fine as udnersized flyweight and 13 win streak being almost always smaller guy.
I don't claim Shev is inferior fighter. Better fighter not always win. Cro Cop lost to Shaub or Gonzaga. GSP to Serra etc. etc. luck is part of fighting and sometimes better fighter will lose or will get finished, especially if he is offensive one type.

The split decision should've been a CLEAR 29-28 UD. Go watch the fight and tell what round Kaufman (an incredibly good fighter whose never been outstruck by anyone in her whole career other than by Valentina) could've won other than RD 3.
The UD was where she flawlessly and beautifully outstruck boxing champion Holly Holm for 5 rounds.
The finish was where she submitted a superior grappler in Pena off her BACK. No one was saying Shevchenko would submit Pena.

She beat 2 elite bantamweights at their own game with a size disadvantage in impressive fashion and she deserves all the praise she gets. Also you don't compare Mighty Mouse the #1 P4P fighter to other fighters lol it's just silly. He also isn't always at a size disadvantage at Flyweight and when he is it isn't as significant as Shevchenko's disadvantage.

Becuase this forum is about UFC, and mostly nobody would care about 3-2 UFC male fighter even with superior skill and acollades. Shev is not HUnt, who can knock out 2 times bigger guys than him.[/QUOTE

Lando Vannata is 1-2-1 in the UFC yet he seems to have a pretty big following here on Sherdog and many fans overall in the UFC community. He's also a fighter who is praised a lot and said to be the next big thing despite his record, never having a UFC title, and having been to 2 decisions out of his 4 fights. Also stop subscribing to the narrative that you need to knock people out to be an entertaining and or elite fighter.

I've heard this talking many times before. She can have zero losses, but without UFC belt it will mean nothing. If he will challange fighters like Paige Van Zant then for sure she will stay undeafeted. If she will win belt and have to defend it multiple times, not really, because her mma game is already defined and 5 fights in UFC is enough for her oponnents to analyze her game, what we could see during Nunes vs Shev 2. She can be undeafeated as flyweight same like Manny Pac is undeafeated as strawweight, who cares really.

Lol dude what are you talking about? Why would Shevchenko fight people of PVZ's caliber and not the best Flyweight has to offer? She fought the best 135 had to offer and she will do the same at 125. It's also pretty obvious she will be next in line to fight the Flyweight champ after she's crowned.

 

[aerius]

I'm not really sold on Calderwood at 125, the problem is her poor takedown defence and ground game. She'll do well if they match her up against fighters who are too dumb to take her down, but she's going to have issues against grapplers or well rounded fighters.

 

[kuka45]

Lol dude what are you talking about? Why would Shevchenko fight people of PVZ's caliber and not the best Flyweight has to offer? She fought the best 135 had to offer and she will do the same at 125. It's also pretty obvious she will be next in line to fight the Flyweight champ after she's crowned.

Then why she called her out?
Ok to be clear, I think Shev is very good fighter, but her elite wins, are you seriious?
Holm was coming from loss against Miesha, girl basicly without stand up game, and Holm was finished by her. Pena was elite grappler yet Shevchenko has black belt in judo, I'm not even sure Pena has any belts in anything.
Problem is people know shit about female fighters,like how hard is to check Shevchenko's mma record, or trained combat sports? Problem with Shevchenko is also in her whole mma she beated only once fighter coming from win streak - Pena. I won't even comment preUFC, but Kaufmann, Holm were coming from losses. Kaufmann was removed from UFC, and Holly lost to GDR, her only win since Ronda is Bethe Correia... I'm mean with all respect,but maybe she should chose more ambitious oponents. Combined resume of her oponnents is worse than Cyborg's, I'm totaly serious, and Cyborg is flamed here becuase of weak competition she faced. So why double standards here?

 

[LcBR]

Joanne Calderwood is so overrated,i just don't get the hype around her...anyway,this is valentina division now.

 

[Trifick]

Valentina Shevchenko DESTROYS EVERYONE at flyweight with EASE.

She already beat the elite bantamweights in Holm, Pena, and the CURRENT CHAMP Nunes at their own game.

Imagine what she does to the poor flyweights. They will be the most one sided, dominant, and flawless performances you've ever seen in wmma.

I wouldn't be too sure about this. She has poor takedown defense. Wrestlers will be chopping at the bit to get their hands on her. Now, she did pull off a great sub against Pena, but Pena took her down quite easily and was just careless when she got her there. You think Alexis Davis will be careless, or even Liz Caramel. Liz already beat her once. yeah, it was years ago, but still.

 

[Frozen Sea]

Then why she called her out?

She called out PVZ because was pushing for the 125 title shot as seen in this tweet

If PVZ wants a 125 title shot she needs to fight the BEST 125 has to offer and that's where Shevchenko comes in.

Ok to be clear, I think Shev is very good fighter, but her elite wins, are you seriious?
Holm was coming from loss against Miesha, girl basicly without stand up game, and Holm was finished by her.

Who has a better resume in WMMA other than Joanna?. The only girl who can brag about their resume is Joanna. It's a fact that Holm, Pena, and Kaufman are top 10 bantamweights in the world. Wins over top 10 opponents ARE ELITE wins. Especially when you beat them at their own game in impressive fashion. It doesn't matter if they were coming off of a loss or not. A top 10 opponent is a top 10 opponent.

Pena was elite grappler yet Shevchenko has black belt in judo, I'm not even sure Pena has any belts in anything.

In regards to you questioning Pena's grappling ability, she won TUF and all 4 of her UFC fights using predominantly her grappling while Shevchenko has won most of her fights using her striking yet she still managed to submit her so it's safe to say Pena was a superior grappler.

Combined resume of her oponnents is worse than Cyborg's, I'm totaly serious, and Cyborg is flamed here becuase of weak competition she faced. So why double standards here?

Cyborg is the biggest joke in combat sports. She's been fighting nobodies in a lower weight class her whole career while Shevchenko has been fighting top 10 opponents in a higher weight class her whole UFC career.

 

[Frozen Sea]

I wouldn't be too sure about this. She has poor takedown defense. Wrestlers will be chopping at the bit to get their hands on her. Now, she did pull off a great sub against Pena, but Pena took her down quite easily and was just careless when she got her there. You think Alexis Davis will be careless, or even Liz Caramel. Liz already beat her once. yeah, it was years ago, but still.

She managed to stuff a few of Nunes takedowns before the size disadvantage was too much. Shevchenko doesn't have poor takedown defense lol. Negating someone's offensive grappling when they have a pretty significant size advantage is pretty impossible yet Shevchenko was still able to stop Nunes' first few takedowns in the 2nd fight.

As for the Liz Carmouche fight that wasn't a real loss. Liz threw an illegal upkick which caused a cut prompting the doctor to stop the fight. The referee didn't call the illegal upkick a foul when it clearly was. Shevchenko talks about it in her post fight interview against Kaufman. Theres a reason Carmouche won't ever discuss that fight anytime someone ask her out it on her social media but will respond to other questions fans ask her.

 

[kuka45]

Who has a better resume in WMMA other than Joanna?. The only girl who can brag about their resume is Joanna. It's a fact that Holm, Pena, and Kaufman are top 10 bantamweights in the world. Wins over top 10 opponents ARE ELITE wins. Especially when you beat them at their own game in impressive fashion. It doesn't matter if they were coming off of a loss or not. A top 10 opponent is a top 10 opponent.

No sorry, fighters like Joanna, Ronda, Nunes, Aguillar, Fuji, even Gadelha, Esparza, Kowalkiewicz, Miesha,Andrade got better resumes than Valenitna, because they faced and beat top 10 few times.
How the hell Valentina can have better resume than Nunes,when she lost twice to her.

 

[executionermma]

Funny enough the names you listed "Ronda, Holly, Nunes, Joanna, Miesha" have all been FINISHED, some multiple times. Yet Shevchenko's resume is just as good as those fighters. MAJORITY of the MMA community would also agree that Shevchenko is a BETTER fighter than all of those girls you listed as well.

wow there's so many things wrong here that man, the only thing i wanna say to you is that you should leave your love and admiration to Valentina aside to make a analysis like that

you have to be really special to say that Valentina resume is just as good as Ronda's or Joanna's

you're the one delusional here and it's ridiculous

 

[kuka45]

wow there's so many things wrong here that man, the only thing i wanna say to you is that you should leave your love and admiration to Valentina aside to make a analysis like that

you have to be really special to say that Valentina resume is just as good as Ronda's or Joanna's

you're the one delusional here and it's ridiculous

He can't separate Valentina as kickboxer and muay thai fighter from her as mma fighter. She is great kickboxer and muay thai fighter but her whole skill didn't transfer to mma (her career is decent so far). You could make many many examples like:
-Rakoczy, very good female boxer, very bad mma career;
- Tiffany van Soest, very good kickboxer, not really good mma career;
- Amanda Kelly, decent kicboxer with good record and wins ( Julie Kitchen, Joanna Jedrzejczyk), very bad mma career;
- Jorina Baars, very good thai boxer, murked Cyborg, but in mma she was destroyed by pregnant Cindy Dandois;

With fighters like Holm or Jedrzejczyk, people think that being very good kickboxer/boxer will automaticlly transfer too mma. No it won't.
Jedrzejczyk was part of best polish mma gym since 2010 and she started to train wrestling around that time (that's why she is very good wrestler,that's why she got submission finishes in her first fights, but coaches decided to stick to her superior skills), Holm's debuted as mma fighter 2011 so 6 years ago and I'm not sure but also was part of mma gym. So both worked their asses focused few years on mma, before their sucesses. Maybe both are on decline right now (because of age like Holly, or being battleworn like Joanna, she has crazy amount of fights in her career) maybe not, but fact they were UFC champions was not some luck.
On other side you got Valentina and she was competing in muay thai 2nd half of 2015,when both Holly, and Joanna were champions. So she 100% focused on mma not even 2 years...still great she was able to fight for belt, but that's it. She has a lot to prove and you will see how other figthers will exploit her weakness every fight. Nunes already did it.

 

[UL]

Get your ass out and you'll get a titleshot

That's wmma for you

 

[Gigaton Punch]

I just hope someone more entertaining than Valentina is able to best her. She's boring as hell.

 

[Frozen Sea]

wow there's so many things wrong here that man, the only thing i wanna say to you is that you should leave your love and admiration to Valentina aside to make a analysis like that

you have to be really special to say that Valentina resume is just as good as Ronda's or Joanna's

you're the one delusional here and it's ridiculous

Holy shit you're a fucking idiot lmao. I NEVER said Shevchenko's resume was just as good as Ronda's or Joanna's you illiterate fuck.

Who has a better resume in WMMA other than Joanna?. The only girl who can brag about their resume is Joanna.

You're clearly special ed and it's just embarrassing at this point lmao.

 

[Frozen Sea]

She has a lot to prove and you will see how other figthers will exploit her weakness every fight. Nunes already did it.

If getting outstruck for 4 RDs is exploiting someone's weakness then sure lmao. So far Shevchenko has shown no weaknesses other than being a bit too hesitant at times which wont happen at 125 when she is the same size as her opponents and doesn't have to be as defensive.

He can't separate Valentina as kickboxer and muay thai fighter from her as mma fighter. She is great kickboxer and muay thai fighter but her whole skill didn't transfer to mma (her career is decent so far). You could make many many examples like:
-Rakoczy, very good female boxer, very bad mma career;
- Tiffany van Soest, very good kickboxer, not really good mma career;
- Amanda Kelly, decent kicboxer with good record and wins ( Julie Kitchen, Joanna Jedrzejczyk), very bad mma career;
- Jorina Baars, very good thai boxer, murked Cyborg, but in mma she was destroyed by pregnant Cindy Dandois;

With fighters like Holm or Jedrzejczyk, people think that being very good kickboxer/boxer will automaticlly transfer too mma. No it won't.
Jedrzejczyk was part of best polish mma gym since 2010 and she started to train wrestling around that time (that's why she is very good wrestler,that's why she got submission finishes in her first fights, but coaches decided to stick to her superior skills), Holm's debuted as mma fighter 2011 so 6 years ago and I'm not sure but also was part of mma gym. So both worked their asses focused few years on mma, before their sucesses. Maybe both are on decline right now (because of age like Holly, or being battleworn like Joanna, she has crazy amount of fights in her career) maybe not, but fact they were UFC champions was not some luck.
On other side you got Valentina and she was competing in muay thai 2nd half of 2015,when both Holly, and Joanna were champions. So she 100% focused on mma not even 2 years...still great she was able to fight for belt, but that's it. She has a lot to prove and you will see how other figthers will exploit her weakness every fight. Nunes already did it.

Nice novel. You're wrong again though. I never said anything about Shevchenko's kickboxing career regarding her MMA careeer. It's obvious you have a personal hate/vendetta for Shevchenko and it's effecting your shitty fight analysis to the point you're just making straw man arguments and not refuting anything Im actually saying. Just stop dude it's pathetic at this point.

 

[Eater of Souls]

Valentina Shevchenko has to be considered the favorite to be the first dominant WFLW champ. She is undersized at WBW and was still elite.

Agree with this. Hell, there are WSW who walk around weighing as much as Val does.

 

[Eater of Souls]

Lol dude you're actually clueless. Her WALKAROUND weight is 135. She cuts ZERO Ibs to make 135 and has came in at 133 a few times. She will cut at the most TEN lbs to make 125. She is at the UPI because there are many more things there than just nutritionist that benefit your mma career.

You know who else isn't a KO artist? Jon Jones, Dominick Cruz, Mighty Mouse, Wonderboy etc too many to name yet they are still the elite mixed martial artist and some of the best fighters in their weight class. Funny enough one of them happens to be P4P #1 right now. She should essentially be 4-1 with her only UFC loss being avenged but she was a victim of some of the worst judging ever seen in the sport which majority of the MMA community agrees with.

I had to check ignored posts to see who you were referring to. He bashes Val with stupid shit in every thread, and when a fighter loses, he thinks they should retire. Worst "fan" ever.

 

[007]

Valentina Shevchenko

 

[skysolo]

Valentina Shevchenko has to be considered the favorite to be the first dominant WFLW champ. She is undersized at WBW and was still elite.

And boring.

I hope she wins so I can see you donks turn on her.