Possible Jon Jones loophole to fight overseas

Discussion in 'The Wasteland' started by Alpha_T83, Jun 23, 2018.

  1. Alpha_T83

    Alpha_T83 Purple Belt

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    So I've realized that Jon Jones *might* be able to fight overseas, either with or without the UFC, in the next year. Basically, Jon Jones isn't actually suspended right now. He's just lost his MMA license in the United States. Until he accepts a deal with USADA's arbiters, he's not officially suspended.

    This of course opens the door for the UFC to have him fight (say vs Lesnar) overseas. Obviously the host country's athletic commissions would need to approve this. However, I'm sure the UFC can find some venues which wouldn't care about his test results & USA MMA license situation.

    This is why I think his situation is dragging on so long -- because USADA wants to give him 4 years, and he'd rather not accept that. And the UFC would also be in hot water with USADA having Jones fight overseas despite his positive test results. Thus, I think both the Jon Jones camp and the UFC are putting pressure on USADA to reduce his suspension to 2 years, so he can fight Lesnar legitimately in the US.

    But if USADA and/or the UFC don't play ball, Jon Jones could sue for release from his contract and fight in Japan. Depending on the judge he gets, some judges will say he has a right to earn a living. If the UFC is unable to offer him a fight overseas in Japan, then he has a right to be released from his contract and test the open market.
     
  2. ralphus1

    ralphus1 Faith and begorrah!

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    So you're basically saying Jones has huge legal battles upcoming regardless of how the USADA ruling turns out.

    Meanwhile, DC takes Jones' spot (and millions) against Stipe.
     
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  3. sabretitan

    sabretitan Black Belt

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    If you know anything about the history of the ufc, contracts etc, you would know he is NOT Fighting anywhere until his mess is handled
     
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  4. Tweak896

    Tweak896 Brown Belt

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    If he did this while in the UFC, it would destroy the UFC's relationship with the commission so bad our sport would look unprofessional. A complete joke.
     
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  5. GSP_37

    GSP_37 Gold Belt

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    Lorenzo's UFC wouldn't cross the athletic commissions.

    Who knows if the current ownership would.
     
  6. Pacemaker Joe

    Pacemaker Joe Silver Belt

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    No, Jones is absolutely officially suspended. He just hasn't gotten his official sanction yet. He has a provisional suspension under section 7.7 of the anti doping policy until it gets resolved at a hearing.
     
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  7. turbotime

    turbotime Green Belt

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    Pretty sure he is suspended under the WADA agency (or anti doping laws) since USADA operates, technically, under WADA protocols.
     
  8. Hauptstoss

    Hauptstoss teams n' shit

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    This is an interesting point, the right to earn a living is guaranteed by the constitution, but also goes way back to common law. Many strict constructionist judges could rule in his favor re to that. The problem lies in the fact that Nevada falls under the jurisdiction of the 9th circuit, which ain't exactly filled with strict constructionists.
     
  9. snackgod

    snackgod Red Belt

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    might you mean cant fight cause the ufc would say no fucking way.

    he cant sue cause in contracts it says it your suspeneded for peds your contract if frozen.

    there nothing that can stop jon jones from getting a job at Walmart.

    also why would ufc allow brock as well to fight each other in rizin. they wouldn't get any money from it and there the black mark it is letting 2 conformed peds users cheat the system.
     
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  10. snackgod

    snackgod Red Belt

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    maybe jon should of risked his career taking peds.
     
  11. snackgod

    snackgod Red Belt

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    nothing stopping jon from getting a normal day to day job.
     
  12. ClosetVitorFan

    ClosetVitorFan Silver Belt

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    The commission left it up to USADA to carry out the sentence. So what UFC could theoretically do is abolish USADA. Then the athletic commission just hands out the typical 1 year sentence, but Jones gets time served. Then he could fight again in the United States. But if they abolished USADA. That would make the UFC look bad. Bad PR. Because UFC wanted USADA. There is a reason why other sports self regulate when it comes to ped use.
     
  13. link67

    link67 Orange Belt

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  14. MastiffMike

    MastiffMike The BIG dog is here

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    Bravo! Pretty much everything you spewed is incorrect.

    Impressive in your idiocy!
     
  15. Strychnine

    Strychnine Gold Belt

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  16. Alpha_T83

    Alpha_T83 Purple Belt

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    Maybe I'm wrong about the technicality of it, but I thought USADA handled the testing and recommended sanctions, but didn't actually directly impose those sanctions. In other words, USADA tests a fighter and recommends a 2-year suspension and the UFC + athletic commissions follow their recommendations. So technically, if the UFC wanted to, they could disregard any indefinite suspension that USADA suggest for Jones and have him fight in Japan. Especially since the CSAC didn't suspend him.

    However, I agree with most other posters that the UFC wouldn't cross USADA and have Jon Jones fight outside the US. Despite the CSAC not suspending him, this would probably damage their relations with the US athletic commissions. But I'm never surprised by WME's willingness to make long-term sacrifices for a short-term profit.
     
  17. Alpha_T83

    Alpha_T83 Purple Belt

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    How so? Care to state specifics about what you think is factually incorrect? Otherwise you're just a troll job.
     
  18. Alpha_T83

    Alpha_T83 Purple Belt

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    I think I agree with you that the UFC would look bad if they had Jon Jones fight before his problems are resolved with USADA.
     
  19. MastiffMike

    MastiffMike The BIG dog is here

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    OK, against my better judgement I'll bite...
    No. No he can't. No he won't.

    Yes he absolutely is suspended.

    By CSAC revoking his license it's actually worse than if they'd suspended him.

    First, there's no "accpets a deal". When a fighter applies for (and pays for) taking their case to arbitration the independent arbitrator makes a decision and that's final. Any "deal" would have had to have been worked out with USADA prior to arbitration. And he IS suspended (provisionally) until his sanction is determined and all aspects of it are satisfied.

    No it doesn't. The UFC can not, nor would they, condone him fighting overseas. Your thinking that the UFC would gladly support having 2 of their suspended fighters circumnavigate the ACs and USADA's rulings is completely idiotic (for an ass ton of reasons).

    Approve it? The approval of some overseas AC wouldn't mean jack shit compared to the US ACs (and USADA).

    There are tons of places that wouldn't care about about Jones' and Lesnar's test results and suspensions, but that doesn't matter because each and every AC in the US (and other reputable countries) absolutely would care if the UFC (or any US based company) allowed them to fight while suspended. That's the whole point of USADA/ACs and the powers they have, ignoring their sanctions defeats the purpose and they'd come down with the hand of God on the UFC if they even tried the type of shenanigans your dumb ass thinks is a good idea.

    If it wasn't evident before, just this statement makes it crystal clear, you really should "think" about any of these matters since you don't seem to be able to formulate an even remotely passable opinion. So tell us, what do you "think" is a reasonable amount of time that you wouldn't consider "dragging on"? You do realize that every single USADA violation that went to arbitration has taking quite a long time. It's not "dragging on" it's due process and the legalities of evidentiary review. Hell, Jones' (and his team and assinine managers) already drug it out for months in an effort to get the CSAC hearing prior to the USADA hearing. Then they drug their feet hiring their expert witness (and only hired him for a total of 4 hours) and look how shit their efforts were. Then when CSAC kicked the can to USADA Jones and his people have been dragging out the process more than necessary.

    No. No they don't. USADA doesn't "want" to give him anything, they just follow the UFC Anti-Doping Policy. And the Policy states that a violation for an anabolic is 2 years, and for a second offense it's doubled to 4 years. From there you potentially have Mitigating and Aggravating Circumstances. Mitigating could reduce the suspension to zero, but as we saw at the CSAC hearing there are no Mitigating Circumstances for Jones. Aggravating Circumstances could double Jones' suspension (so to a maximum of 8 years) and while Jones' defense was laughably shit, it dosn't necessarily qualify as "Aggravating". I've said forever that I expect Jones to get 48-54 months and the CSAC just affirmed that belief.

    Jones has what choices exactly? If he doesn't want to accept the sanction USADA determined then he can go to arbitration. Once the Arbitrator makes a decision it's binding and AFAIK there is no further options. As for Arbitration, only a handful of cases have gone to Arbitration (4?) and every single one has resulted in the fighter receiving the MAXIMUM suspension. But regardless, nobody cares whether or not Jones "accepts" the sanction, he made his bed and now he's going to get fucked in it.

    Finally something actually correct! The UFC would be in real trouble not only with USADA but also all the ACs in the US (and elsewhere). The UFC isn't going to risk their promoters license, and whole company, to allow Jones a non-draw, to go fight overseas.

    What kind of "pressure"? Do you realize just how naive/stupid you sound? Are they applying the kind of "pressure" Lance Armstrong did? The same amount as Russia did? You want Jones to only be suspended for 2 years? It's not going to happen. If it was, there's only 2 situations that would make a suspension of less than 4 years viable, and we already know they aren't going to happen:
    1. Jones and his team find a supplement tainted with turniabol. At the CSAC hearing we learned that Jones was unable to find one, even though he supposedly had 17 supplements tested (there's has NEVER been a legit supplement found to be tainted with turinabol). So Jones "tained supplement" excuse is a non-factor. Besides, the last time Jones found a tained supplement and STILL got the maximujm baseline suspension (which this time is 4 years).
    2. Jones would have to snitch on his team/camp, thus creating a Mitigating Circumstance to reduce his suspension. If that was going to happen it would have already occurred (pre-CSAC).
    There literally is ZERO chance he gets less than 3 years and everyone with a reasonable amount of knowledge about USADA thinks he's almost certainly getting 4 years.

    Lesnar still has his own suspension to deal with (and he'd have to pass all the tests). He has about 8 months remaining on his suspension and at his age, does anyone really think he's going to go clean, and stay clean, for 8+ months all so he can fight in the UFC one more time? He's "return to the UFC" is just a negotiation tactic he's using to get the best deal he can out of the WWE. Brock's smart enough to know that a return to the UFC is far from a good idea at this point.

    Also we can't ignore the fact Jones couldn't successfully pass drug test for 15 months between popping. There's literally zero chance he can serve a 4 year suspension without popping again and the next time it's a lifetime ban.

    He "could" but he'd lose and it'd just be a complete waste of money for him. Rampage tried to get out of his Bellator contract to return to the UFC and Bellator squashed that without any problem. There has never been a fighter who successfully fought their contract and got out of it. Wand tried, and ultimately did get out of it years later, but not because of a legal decision (the UFC let him go because his value wasn't worth the hassle).


    ALL judges would say that, and nobody is saying he can't go work at McDonalds. No judge would say that he has a right to break the rules he agreed to follow and then be free to go somewhere else to avoid punishment to earn money for some other employer. Jones could challenge the UFC but it'd actually be quicker to just serve a 4 year suspension then have the UFC fight him in court (and then there's the legal costs Jones would have to pony up).

    No he absolutely does NOT. The UFC does NOT have to offer him shit, and in fact are obligated to adhere to the rules and regulations as set forth by the AC's, USADA, and their own policies. Jones had the "right" to not be a complete fuck up (AGAIN) but he screwed that up. At this point he doesn't even have the right to whine about his own piss poor behavior, much less complain about the UFC.

    IF Jones did try to ignore his contract and go fight somewhere else, the UFC would come down hard on him and unless Jones was willing to move outside the US and never return, he'd be not only stopped but screwed HARD.

    TL/DR:
    TS doesn't have a clue about what he's spewing.
    Jones screwed himself (again) and will be suspended 48-54 months.
    Jones will never fight in the UFC again (nor will Lesnar).
     

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