Pope Francis declared having an abortion after finding birth defects in an unborn child was...

[2arctanx]

Pope Francis is letting parents decide. He is just letting people know that he feels it is wrong to abort a child because it has a disability.

even if the child has zika and is not even self aware?

 

[Ruprecht]

It's unfortunate he made the Nazi comparison (it detracts from the argument), although he's certainly not the only one to see it as a form of genocide.
The fact is that infanticide of the disabled has been routinely practiced by some societies (and there's those like Peter Singer that still argue for it), even if the "disability" was just being the "wrong" gender.
Genetic screening and abortion makes it more palatable to modern sensibilities, so it's not surprising it'd see a comeback.

 

[HockeyBjj]

let parents make that decision.

Let parents kill their handicapped children once they become too much of a hassle to take care of too?

I really don't see a difference between the two if you're gonna play the "let parents kill their child" card

This is one of the few issues this Pope has gotten right. With as off as he's been in the past, with the thread title I was very afraid that the Pope was now saying abortion could be ok

 

[Deleted member 391673]

is the pope or the catholic church willing to subsidize the extra costs associated with caring for children with medical conditions that require a lifetime of treatments?

 

[Alphafail]

I was very afraid that the Pope was now saying abortion could be ok

Not gonna lie, that's exactly what I thought when I read the title too.

 

[nac386]

He's the Pope, what did you guys expect him to say about abortion? He values the lives of these children, and he's pretty much spot on in saying that aborting a child because it might have an intellectual disorder is disturbing for humanity.

 

[HereticBD]

He's the Pope, what did you guys expect him to say about abortion?

With this Pope, you never know.

He values the lives of these children, and he's pretty much spot on in saying that aborting a child because it might have an intellectual disorder is disturbing for humanity.

What about just regular old abortion, then? Is it only immoral if you're aborting a disabled child? What about the people who just don't want a kid for any reason at all?

Not sure if you're pro-choice, but I am a little shocked to see some people in this thread who are, agree with the Pope on this one. Is it not "her body, her choice" anymore if the kid will be disabled?

 

[nac386]

With this Pope, you never know.

Does this Pope seem less Catholic than previous Popes?

What about just regular old abortion, then? Is it only immoral if you're aborting a disabled child? What about the people who just don't want a kid for any reason at all?

Not sure if you're pro-choice, but I am a little shocked to see some people in this thread who are, agree with the Pope on this one. Is it not "her body, her choice" anymore if the kid will be disabled?

Being pro-choice does not mean that you think abortion is no big deal, moral, or even a viable option for you personally. Pro-choice just means that you prefer that the government not interfere with an individual's right to make that decision for themselves. Many people are pro-choice, but would never have an abortion.

 

[HereticBD]

Does this Pope seem less Catholic than previous Popes?

I'm not entirely sure on his Catholicism status, but he's definitely more progressive than Pope's in the past.

Being pro-choice does not mean that you think abortion is no big deal, moral, or even a viable option for you personally. Pro-choice just means that you prefer that the government not interfere with an individual's right to make that decision for themselves. Many people are pro-choice, but would never have an abortion.

I don't think you can have it both ways. If you believe abortion is immoral, I don't see how you can support the right for people to make the choice to have one. I mean, we're not talking about free speech here. No matter how you dress it up, it's the choice to kill life.

 

[nac386]

I'm not entirely sure on his Catholicism status, but he's definitely more progressive than Pope's in the past.

He's a Christian, following Christian principles. I think a lot of Americans forget what Christianity actually preaches, often times. American Christians pick and choose when to support policy that aligns with the principles of Christianity. I always thought that was weird.

Edit: The reason why it is weird, is because they claim to support certain policies because they align with their Christian beliefs.

I don't think you can have it both ways. If you believe abortion is immoral, I don't see how you can support the right for people to make the choice to have one. I mean, we're not talking about free speech here. No matter how you dress it up, it's the choice to kill life.

I think everybody should be able to have their own value system without believing that it is their job to inflict their values on others who disagree.

I can personally be against abortion, while supporting your right to have your own feelings about it. It's America. That is what I believe this country is founded on, the right to practice your own beliefs as long as it is not negatively effecting other people.

I'm sure you see me defend religion fairly regularly on here. I'm not particularly religious. But I believe the right to hold your own beliefs and live your life accordingly is essential in America. I think that's what America is supposed to be.

 

[HereticBD]

I think everybody should be able to have their own value system without believing that it is their job to inflict their values on others who disagree.

Full stop? Nah, I don't think so. We already do enforce certain values on people.

I can personally be against abortion, while supporting your right to have your own feelings about it. It's America. That is what I believe this country is founded on, the right to practice your own beliefs as long as it is not negatively effecting other people.

It's not about feelings though. It's about an act. It's hard to support one without the other, in this case. Those folks supporting the right to have an abortion, aren't supporting the right to believe in it. They're supporting the act.

I'm sure you see me defend religion fairly regularly on here. I'm not particularly religious. But I believe the right to hold your own beliefs and live your life accordingly is essential in America. I think that's what America is supposed to be.

You don't really have the right to hold any and all beliefs, when actions are accompanied with them though. Take honor killings for instance. You can't support the right to believe the most extreme form of Islam, while denouncing some of the acts that go with those beliefs.

"I support your right to believe in the religious merits of honor killings...just don't do it because it's wrong."

 

[nac386]

It's not about feelings though. It's about an act. It's hard to support one without the other, in this case. Those folks supporting the right to have an abortion, aren't supporting the right to believe in it. They're supporting the act.

You don't really have the right to hold any and all beliefs, when actions are accompanied with them though. Take honor killings for instance. You can't support the right to believe the most extreme form of Islam, while denouncing some of the acts that go with those beliefs.

"I support your right to believe in the religious merits of honor killings...just don't do it because it's wrong."

We all have to decide where our limits are when it comes to legislating our own value systems.

I do not personally put early term abortion and murder in the same category.

 

[HereticBD]

I do not personally put early term abortion and murder in the same category.

I'm flexible, but I can definitely see the argument for it.

Like I said, I'm just personally a little shocked at some pro-choice people supporting what the Pope said. I mean, if there ever was a valid reason for abortion, that would be one of them. Yet, there are some people in here who support abortions just in general, agreeing with the Pope that it's immoral and similar to Nazi shit.

Agreeing with the Pope's denouncement, is a bit at odds with their own beliefs.

 

[Devout Pessimist]

even if the child has zika and is not even self aware?

The Pope is referring to not against abortion in extreme circumstances. Even the Catholic church allows for abortion when the mother's life could be comprised of the chance of devastating birth defects.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Yeah, that's because kids with the downs are less likely to tell their parents about the role of quarters the priest always has in his pocket.

Why does the Catholic Church place so much emphasis on prayer? Because if you're praying they've already got on your knees with your eyes closed and your mouth open...