Poor pad holding

[j123]

We did some head movement with those too but I don't get why boxing coaches advocates ducking. What if a guy just punches downwards, in anticipation for my my next ducking maneuver?? he can slip in a hook there to my face. Or an uppercut.

Probably to get you used to bobbing and weaving. Its a progression, esp for greener practitioners. I learned shrimping before moving onto sweeps and switches.

Like most things in fighting, you can't really do the same thing 3x in a row, anyone will find a counter or defense to it. Mix it up to keep more guesswork

 

[spacetime]

Probably to get you used to bobbing and weaving. Its a progression, esp for greener practitioners. I learned shrimping before moving onto sweeps and switches.

Like most things in fighting, you can't really do the same thing 3x in a row, anyone will find a counter or defense to it. Mix it up to keep more guesswork

My point is that it would appear safer to simply lean back, circle, block, use footwork, things that boxers also do. This bobbing and weaving thing is a doubled edged sword. Foreman argued that tall guys don't need to bob and weav and I totally agree. The guys who did bob and weave in sparring just got clipped time and time again with my jab. I relied on footwork and leans instead to parry shots. Just like I did kick and boxing in Taekwondo sparring. These guys who used head movement were just too slow. They basically blocked with their head, as turned out.

 

[NAKMUAY18]

My point is that it would appear safer to simply lean back, circle, block, use footwork, things that boxers also do. This bobbing and weaving thing is a doubled edged sword. Foreman argued that tall guys don't need to bob and weav and I totally agree. The guys who did bob and weave in sparring just got clipped time and time again with my jab. I relied on footwork and leans instead to parry shots. Just like I did kick and boxing in Taekwondo sparring. These guys who used head movement were just too slow. They basically blocked with their head, as turned out.

I don’t “duck” as in bend at the waist and bring my head down, but I lower my level with my legs to come under hooks, specially when I want to counter to the body.
I’ve learned over the years not to say things “never work”. Just because you can’t incorporate something into your game doesn’t mean it’s shit.

I always has a thing against spinning shit. I still don’t like it, I don’t use it, and I don’t teach it.
It still works though.
Just because I don’t like it doesn’t meant shit, other people can use it and fair play to them. Wonderboy Thompson, hated his style, though he was a can crusher, turns out I was wrong. What am I going to say to him?

 

[4daLuLZ]

In our kickboxing belt exams, the pad holding is evaluated as the striking.

There's just so much wrong in that statement.

 

[spacetime]

I don’t “duck” as in bend at the waist and bring my head down, but I lower my level with my legs to come under hooks, specially when I want to counter to the body.
I’ve learned over the years not to say things “never work”. Just because you can’t incorporate something into your game doesn’t mean it’s shit.

I always has a thing against spinning shit. I still don’t like it, I don’t use it, and I don’t teach it.
It still works though.
Just because I don’t like it doesn’t meant shit, other people can use it and fair play to them. Wonderboy Thompson, hated his style, though he was a can crusher, turns out I was wrong. What am I going to say to him?

That's what I'm saying. These constant bobbing and weaving/ducking drills is a one fits all mentality in boxing. Boxing instructors however will tell you that it's universally sound for all boxers.

 

[shincheckin]

I don’t “duck” as in bend at the waist and bring my head down, but I lower my level with my legs to come under hooks, specially when I want to counter to the body.
I’ve learned over the years not to say things “never work”. Just because you can’t incorporate something into your game doesn’t mean it’s shit.

I always has a thing against spinning shit. I still don’t like it, I don’t use it, and I don’t teach it.
It still works though.
Just because I don’t like it doesn’t meant shit, other people can use it and fair play to them. Wonderboy Thompson, hated his style, though he was a can crusher, turns out I was wrong. What am I going to say to him?

i was the same with spinning moves, as was my old coach. When he left I switched gyms to a MT gym, the coach had done karate for a long time before fighting professionally in MT. Him an his higher level students opened my eyes to spinning moves, how effective they can be, and how they catch you off guard. I think the huge problem is you see alot of guys throwing spinning moves, when they really shouldnt, because they suck at the spinning move and dont throw it cleanly or use it effectively. I see lots of ugly spinning elbows at the local fights all the time. The spinning moves should be the last things you learn after you have mastered everything else IMO.

 

[DoctorTaco]

pad holding is a art in itself.

pad holding is for coaches, not fighters or students

When someone is holding pads for you, they are coaching you, so when you partner up and hold pads for eachother at the muay thai class, thats not the coach teaching you, thats the guy holding pads teaching you. Most gyms are ran this way.

Progress and learn how to hold pads good, have a partner that can do the same, and you can coach yourself.

a shitty pad holder can definitely make someone whos good look like shit, or basically not even really be able to train.

Something worth mentioning regarding a coach holding pads.....to get to a top level, you need to have the same padman all the time, not that you cant have different pad holders and what not, but you should have one that you are very familiar with, and is very familiar with you. If you are able to train daily with this padholder for years, you both become so familiar with eachother, you can freestyle on the pads with attacks counters etc simulating a fight. This level and familairity is something you see thais with alot (no explanation needed) and something you dont see many westerners with. Even training with a guy who is great at holding pads, is a bit awkward your first time because you guys arent used to eachother.

respectfully disagree. there's 20 guys in my class and only one of me, maybe me and an assistant coach. teaching guys to hold pads helps make sure that my guys get good pad work, or at least passable pad work.

I'm literally praying there's less pad work in my new boxing gym. It's the bane of my existence.

the problem isn't pad work, the problem is coaches or gym owners not teaching people how to hold pads just like they teach people how to hit them.

Kick shields have a place, but a very limited one.
They are basically walking heavy bags.

If you find a good pad holder i am sure you will change your mind. its a corner stone to forming combinations

I used to think the same thing but then I saw creative coaches use them in a few different ways. coach Kirian can work the shit out of guys with a belly shield while wearing one micro mitt and holding a kick shield with his other hand. Barry robinson showed me a fun drill with a kickshield where you throw punches while moving around and then added in pushing, pulling, grabbing, and posting against it the same way you would someones gloves.

We did some head movement with those too but I don't get why boxing coaches advocates ducking. What if a guy just punches downwards, in anticipation for my my next ducking maneuver?? he can slip in a hook there to my face. Or an uppercut.

if i slip outside and you expect me to then you draw your punch that way and i get hit. if you think im going to roll under a hook and you throw it to the body instead you'll bonk me in the head. ducking is like any other head movement- risk and reward.

 

[DoctorTaco]

on padwork:

I'm a huge fan of pad work, it's literally my full time job. 90% of my clients are seeing me for fitness and to learn boxing as a hobby, and I "sponsor" a few competitive fighters (see: I don't charge their broke asses for my time because they don't have a pot to piss in.) I've got a few different sets and styles of mitt work using a combination of thai pads, focus mitts, belly shield, noodles, kick shield, and leg shield. I also started teaching a mitt work class once a week at my gym yesterday where I teach my system of mitts to the fitness boxers and have them hold mitts for each other for a cardio focused class. our typical cardio boxing classes will have between 20-30 participants and my mitt class had 19. the demand is there. people love to hit mitts but have no idea how to hold them properly.

I use pad work for a few different things:

diagnostics
this is the "coaching" side of mitt work. ill hold mitts and see how someone moves and strikes and see what errors or habits they have. hands dropping, weight shifting too far, head not moving, etc. fixing someones problems can be done in any number of ways, many of which don't involve mitts or pads. I agree with @shincheckin that this is for coaches only, although it doesn't take a genius to tell someone to keep their hands up and chin down when they punch.

technical development
teaching techniques while using pads, or fixing problems with pad work. the main thing pads are good for in my opinion. jab work, slips and rolls, combinations, counter punching, power shots, it's all right there. I don't mind having my classes use mitts for technical developments long as there aren't too many knuckle heads for me to keep an eye on. I'll spend as much time correcting mitt work as I do helping with the punches.

cardio
my bread and butter. I love nothing more than grinding someone into the ground with high pressure, high volume intense mitt work. this is my specialty, i burn nearly as many calories as my fighters/clients when I work mitts with them like this- and I fucking love it. this is one of the main things you can have your students do with each other while holding mitts, especially if you show them a few simple "tricks" to help push their partners.

 

[shincheckin]

@DoctorTaco

"respectfully disagree. there's 20 guys in my class and only one of me, maybe me and an assistant coach. teaching guys to hold pads helps make sure that my guys get good pad work, or at least passable pad work."

Thats exactly why students are holding pads for eachother instead of the coach, cause of the coach to student ratio. Obviously 1 coach cant hold for 20 guys. Thai gyms arent ran this way, theres a reason for that. Instead of having guys hold pads for eachother, they have more coaches. But in thailand you can make a living off of fighters, not here, which is why classes are ran the way they are.


Its great for guys to know how to hold pads, but im not there to learn how to hold pads, Im there to learn how to fight. I know how to hold pads, and so do many of my fighter friends because of this. But in my mind, if all im doing is paying to go to a gym, so I can hold pads for my friend, and he can hold pads for me, we can do the samething in my garage, so why pay to do it at the gym?

If I pay to go train at any thai camp, i am not going to be partnering up with someone else and hodling pads for them. I will be getting 1 on 1 instruction/padwork from the coach.

Perhaps were comparing apples to oranges as top level fighters to weekend warriors. You dont see buakaw holding pads for people. You dont see mayweather holding pads for people.

Pad holding is a form of coaching....fighters dont coach, they train/fight.

 

[shincheckin]

Heres my padwork skills, helping prepare my friend for his first full rules MT fight.



also my long time friend and training partner, freestyle on the pads, hes great pad holder.

 

[Literally Bricked]

I once had a coach embarrass some guy in front of a class because he couldn’t hold pads properly for me. His hands went up and retracted from me as if he was scared of getting hit.

Whenever this happens just tell the guy to hit you. Let him bump your forehead and realize he isn’t going to do any damage with the pads. He’ll get the picture quick and you’ll go back to sounding like thunder.

 

[DoctorTaco]

Here’s some fight prep I did with a boxer who was from NYC but visiting Portland. This was our first time together and she had a fight in a week at 141 against a 5’10” southpaw. We talked about having her box her way in and ripping the body apart so our mitt work reflected that:


Here’s a cardio “game” I’ve dubbed Two Punch Return for obvious reasons. The guy I’m working with is a professional football player who wanted conditioning and hand speed. The clip finished with some technical development. He’s not a competitive boxer so I’m willing to let some small mistakes go in order to get the bigger ideas across:

Edit: please excuse the long and bullshitty captions. It’s part of the social media game and a guys gotta put food on the table.

 

[William Huggins]

i was the same with spinning moves, as was my old coach. When he left I switched gyms to a MT gym, the coach had done karate for a long time before fighting professionally in MT. Him an his higher level students opened my eyes to spinning moves, how effective they can be, and how they catch you off guard. I think the huge problem is you see alot of guys throwing spinning moves, when they really shouldnt, because they suck at the spinning move and dont throw it cleanly or use it effectively. I see lots of ugly spinning elbows at the local fights all the time. The spinning moves should be the last things you learn after you have mastered everything else IMO.

One of the gyms I trained at always said, only use spinning moves if your opponent is in the right position and moving in the right direction or your desperate because everything else has failed.

 

[shincheckin]

Here’s some fight prep I did with a boxer who was from NYC but visiting Portland. This was our first time together and she had a fight in a week at 141 against a 5’10” southpaw. We talked about having her box her way in and ripping the body apart so our mitt work reflected that:


Here’s a cardio “game” I’ve dubbed Two Punch Return for obvious reasons. The guy I’m working with is a professional football player who wanted conditioning and hand speed. The clip finished with some technical development. He’s not a competitive boxer so I’m willing to let some small mistakes go in order to get the bigger ideas across:

Edit: please excuse the long and bullshitty captions. It’s part of the social media game and a guys gotta put food on the table.

just read your other post, which showed up after mine.

yup, you obviously know the diff between the fitness and the fighters. Were on the same page. Obviously trainings going to be different for them. Etc etc.

 

[spacetime]

respectfully disagree. there's 20 guys in my class and only one of me, maybe me and an assistant coach. teaching guys to hold pads helps make sure that my guys get good pad work, or at least passable pad work.
the problem isn't pad work, the problem is coaches or gym owners not teaching people how to hold pads just like they teach people how to hit them.

I used to think the same thing but then I saw creative coaches use them in a few different ways. coach Kirian can work the shit out of guys with a belly shield while wearing one micro mitt and holding a kick shield with his other hand. Barry robinson showed me a fun drill with a kickshield where you throw punches while moving around and then added in pushing, pulling, grabbing, and posting against it the same way you would someones gloves.

if i slip outside and you expect me to then you draw your punch that way and i get hit. if you think im going to roll under a hook and you throw it to the body instead you'll bonk me in the head. ducking is like any other head movement- risk and reward.

Anyway, is it normal for beginners to only do punch and duck drills with each others gloves? This was in the middle of the term.. They had 2 months of prior training.

 

[DoctorTaco]

just read your other post, which showed up after mine.

yup, you obviously know the diff between the fitness and the fighters. Were on the same page. Obviously trainings going to be different for them. Etc etc.

 

[spacetime]

just read your other post, which showed up after mine.

yup, you obviously know the diff between the fitness and the fighters. Were on the same page. Obviously trainings going to be different for them. Etc etc.

They all go through beginners.

 

[eternaldarkness]

I think learning good pad holding is an ESSENTIAL part of becoming a better fighter, and is absolutely something students should learn & help each other with, same with Dutch drills, technical sparring, full sparring etc. I would LOVE to see gyms do regular padwork classes or seminar's.

BUT, I also get crazy frustrated when a less experienced student does a super bad job of holding pads. I'm far from a good practitioner, but I'm in this weird middle ground where I know I'm capable of x, y & z, but not quite proficient enough for my technique to stay 100% when the pads aren't being help properly. I do take it on myself to push the newer pad holders to hold properly when we work together, which is the same way I've learned to be a better pad holder.

There has been a large influx of new students at my gym recently, which means I've had to carve out time, and the money, to take on some private padwork sessions with the coaches to try and keep on top of my progression, so that's a little frustrating, but it is what it is. It makes me a better fighter, so there's that.

the reason i don't believe in beginners holding pads, is that you catch punches with the opposite hands to how you should actually block punches. (it makes beginners react to to jab with the left inside of knocking in down with the right.)