Poliquin on Fish Oils and my own Personal Experience

[Henry Swanson]

For those of us interested in positively and optimally altering body composition and maximizing our training efforts, fish oils offer thirteen possible advantages:

1. Cell membrane health: EPA and DHA insure that cell membranes remain healthy. This means that the membranes are flexible and contain larger numbers of insulin receptors that are more receptive and responsive to circulating insulin. This results in decreased fat storage in the adipocytes (fat cells).

2. Fish oils turn on the lipolytic genes (fat burning genes).

3. Fish oils turn off the lipogenic genes (fat storage genes).

4. Fish oils diminish C-reactive proteins, a newly identified risk factor associated with various inflammatory diseases, including atherosclerosis, angina, coronary heart disease, heart attack, stroke, congestive heart failure, and diabetes. The DHA fraction of the fish oil seems to be one most responsible for that protective effect. DHA also has the best ability to reduce blood pressure.

5. Increase utilization of fat stores from the adipocytes.

6. Preferential utilization for energy production once stored in the adipocytes.

7. Reduced inflammation from physical training.

8. Pain management from the reduced inflammation.

9. EPA regulates blood supply to the brain which is essential in maintaining focus in weight training sessions. DHA is important in brain membranes, memory, and cognitive function.

10. Fish oils increase serotonin levels (the happy neurotransmitter). Therefore, fish oils will decrease incidence of depression, anxiety, panic attack, and reduce carbohydrate cravings.

11. Fish oils will improve your cardiovascular risk profile by lowering VLDL, triglycerides, homocysteine, fibrinogen, and increasing HDL levels. Combining fish oils with plant sterols will improve lipid levels even more than either alone.

12. Fish oils can also decrease blood pressure by several mechanisms. These include increases in the vasodilatory compound, nitric oxide, reducing vascular inflammation, blocking the constrictive elements in the vascular wall such as the calcium channels reducing blood viscosity, and inhibiting a blood vessel constrictor (thromboxane). Lipoprotein (a) is another CVD predictor that can be lowered by fish oils (a 19% reduction was seen with natural, stable fish oils and just 4% with a highly purified fish oil).

13. Fish oils are a great stress fighter. Supplementation with n-3 fatty acids inhibits the adrenal activation of steroids, aldosterone, epinephrine, and norepinephrine (catecholamines) elicited by a mental stress, apparently through effects exerted at the level of the central nervous system. Therefore, for the same amount of stress, one will produce fewer stress hormones if consuming fish oils on a regular basis.

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do;jsessionid=2AC22DED7E7885749EE54ACA7C5C90B9.hydra?id=1371812

Alright, most of the stuff isn't new to you guys who are regular posters on this board. But from a personal standpoint, #10 stood out for me. I come from a family of depressed, bipolar etc. people where mental health problems run rampant. I myself see that I go through serious bouts of depression and over the years it seems to get compounded with generalized anxiety and chronic worry (something I've been treated before in the past).

Upon further reflection I tried to pinpoint a time in my life where my mood was a little more stable. That time for me was around 2000-2001, I remember being far happier then and my mood fluctuated a lot less (compared to now). The difference between now and then? I used to supplement with Fish Oils on a regular basis (daily sometimes 10-15 grams per day).

So last month I decided to go back to supplementing with fish oils again (10 grams per day) to see what happens. Today I can HONESTLY say my mood is much more stable I've noticed considerable results in my mental well-being since starting my regular supplementation of Fish Oil. There's NO question that I'm deficient ( I don't like ANY sort of seafood)

So nothing really new or informative here but the difference is noticeable enough for me to post this thread just to share my experience.

My only beef is that Fish Oils seem to make me break out more (acne).

 

[Sportman**]

Thanks for the post, I have been meaning to start taking fish oil on a regular basis, I didn't know that is could reduce anxiety also..that is a pretty big plus!

 

[Henry Swanson]

Some more.

Fish oil also fights stress and depression. Multiple studies have found a direct association between depression and omega-3 content in various tissues of the body, including the content in adipose tissue, which is a marker of long-term dietary fat intake [26]. Supplementation with DHA increases levels of both serotonin and dopamine in rats without affecting norepinephrine [27]. Additionally, a trial with 42 college students taking 1.5-1.8 g of DHA daily vs. placebo over one college quarter found that DHA prevented the changes in various markers of stress during finals week, such as external aggression and changes in the plasma epinephrine:norepinephrine ratio [28]. Anti-stress effects of DHA have also been observed in mice [28]. In addition to anti-depressive and anti-stress properties, fish oil may be useful in the treatment of other conditions such as dyslexia and schizophrenia [29, 30].

*Opens bottle of fish oil*

 

[Sportman**]

That's it, I am going to go buy some today . I wonder how much the 'quality' of fish oil varies from place to place

 

[kungfool]

What kind of Fish Oil?

I was thinking of trying ( http://www.vitaminlady.com/Carlson_Labs/Liquid_Omega_3.asp ) Carlson's Fish Oil - 500mg of EPA and 800mg of DHA in every serving compared to the 180mg/120mg that I get from generic softgels.

I'd try Flameout but my local nutrition store doesn't have it (yet)

Are these expensive Fish Oils really worth buying?

 

[Right_Cross]

10-15 grams of fish oil a day? Isn't that a bit excessive? I currently take NOW Omega-3 caps and I down about 5-6 a day, which equals out to about 1-2 grams.

 

[Babalinho]

Interesting stuff... Always good to have the serotonin flowing, maybe i should up my inteake of fish-oil, I only take about 5 grams/day...

 

[Sportman**]

What kind of Fish Oil?

I was thinking of trying ( http://www.vitaminlady.com/Carlson_Labs/Liquid_Omega_3.asp ) Carlson's Fish Oil - 500mg of EPA and 800mg of DHA in every serving compared to the 180mg/120mg that I get from generic softgels.

I'd try Flameout but my local nutrition store doesn't have it (yet)

Are these expensive Fish Oils really worth buying?

Yeh, the stuff I have is 180/120 aswell. What does that equal in grams?

 

[Duncon76]

A healthy man needs about 10,000 IU of Vit A a day from fish oils.

 

[deadlyshaolin]

Big fan of fish oil, make no mistake about it. However, I've an admonition to share with y'all:

If you're taking aspirin or any other anti-platelet agent (i.e. blood thinner), be cautious when taking fish oil because it acts upon the same mechanism. This interaction may lead to increased bleeding times and increase the risk of internal hemorrhage. 10-15 grams seems a bit high -- especially if 1) you have a predisposition to bleeds and 2) if you are taking another blood thinner like aspirin.

I've seen a study that recommended no more than 4 grams of fish oil daily if you're on aspirin, but personally I wouldn't go over 6g.

 

[MikeMartial]

Big fan of fish oil, make no mistake about it. However, I've an admonition to share with y'all:

If you're taking aspirin or any other anti-platelet agent (i.e. blood thinner), be cautious when taking fish oil because it acts upon the same mechanism. This interaction may lead to increased bleeding times and increase the risk of internal hemorrhage. 10-15 grams seems a bit high -- especially if 1) you have a predisposition to bleeds and 2) if you are taking another blood thinner like aspirin.

I've seen a study that recommended no more than 4 grams of fish oil daily if you're on aspirin, but personally I wouldn't go over 6g.

Initially, I think I had posted that fish oil DOESN'T affect your clolting factor or have anti-platlet activity---but I'm begining to think otherwise. I've noticed increased bruising since the summer, when I upped my fish oil intake. I did have a trial month combined with ASA, but that was in Aug/Sept, and I did have substantial increased bruising then.

I was clipped with a roundhouse kick the other night; and when I say clipped, I mean barely touched. Yet the corner of my eyesocket developed a small hematoma, and I'm now sporting a yellow eye. I'm currently doing 2 grams x3 per day.

Don't get me wrong---I'm a huge fish oil fan, and Im not going to stop taking it. In fact, in light of some shitty seasonal affective disorder bumming me out, and Sonny's experience, I was going to up it to between 10-15 grams.

 

[jk3004]

I'm currently doing 2 grams x3 per day.

Don't get me wrong---I'm a huge fish oil fan, and Im not going to stop taking it. In fact, in light of some shitty seasonal affective disorder bumming me out, and Sonny's experience, I was going to up it to between 10-15 grams.

Exactly what I am doing (taking 2g x 3), and was thinking about doing Mike. I can say though, that since I have been taking 6 g's a day, my memory has increased significantly, whcih is great considering I have the worst short and long term memory in the world.

 

[Henry Swanson]

Big fan of fish oil, make no mistake about it. However, I've an admonition to share with y'all:

If you're taking aspirin or any other anti-platelet agent (i.e. blood thinner), be cautious when taking fish oil because it acts upon the same mechanism. This interaction may lead to increased bleeding times and increase the risk of internal hemorrhage. 10-15 grams seems a bit high -- especially if 1) you have a predisposition to bleeds and 2) if you are taking another blood thinner like aspirin.

I've seen a study that recommended no more than 4 grams of fish oil daily if you're on aspirin, but personally I wouldn't go over 6g.

Interesting stuff. I've never taken aspirin before but it's still good to know.

 

[Coldfire]

The researchers at the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, which is part of NIH, had placed adverts for aggressive alcoholics in the Washington Post in 2001. Some 80 volunteers came forward and have since been enrolled in the double blind study. They have ranged from homeless people to a teacher to a former secret service agent. Following a period of three weeks' detoxification on a locked ward, half were randomly assigned to 2 grams per day of the omega-3 fatty acids EPA and DHA for three months, and half to placebos of fish-flavoured corn oil.

An earlier pilot study on 30 patients with violent records found that those given omega-3 supplements had their anger reduced by one-third, measured by standard scales of hostility and irritability, regardless of whether they were relapsing and drinking again. The bigger trial is nearly complete now and Dell Wright, the nurse administering the pills, has seen startling changes in those on the fish oil rather than the placebo. "When Demar came in there was always an undercurrent of aggression in his behaviour. Once he was on the supplements he took on the ability not to be impulsive. He kept saying, 'This is not like me'."

i've posted the link to this artical before, but hey i found it really interesting, so i'll post it again



http://www.guardian.co.uk/food/Story/0,,1924088,00.html

 

[Madmick]

A healthy man needs about 10,000 IU of Vit A a day from fish oils.

WTF? Hell no:
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/vitamins/vitaminA/

 

[Monger]

Initially, I think I had posted that fish oil DOESN'T affect your clolting factor or have anti-platlet activity---but I'm begining to think otherwise. I've noticed increased bruising since the summer, when I upped my fish oil intake. I did have a trial month combined with ASA, but that was in Aug/Sept, and I did have substantial increased bruising then.

I was clipped with a roundhouse kick the other night; and when I say clipped, I mean barely touched. Yet the corner of my eyesocket developed a small hematoma, and I'm now sporting a yellow eye. I'm currently doing 2 grams x3 per day.

Don't get me wrong---I'm a huge fish oil fan, and Im not going to stop taking it. In fact, in light of some shitty seasonal affective disorder bumming me out, and Sonny's experience, I was going to up it to between 10-15 grams.

I take 9-12 fish oil pills a day which equates to ~4-5grams of EPA/DHA (Sam's Club Extra Str). I haven't noticed any additional bruising or any other negative side effects. I will say this though, I had a physical just a month ago and the results came back perfect on all accounts EXCEPT it said my blood was thinner than average. It was nothing extreme and the doctor didn't even care, nonetheless I think it may be from the fish oil. Just food for thought.

 

[Matt Meinrod]

Very very interested in this. My bottle says to take 3grams a day...if we can get some good evidence as to why you need to superdose this stuff I'd love to read it. I'm not saying you shouldn't, but I'm curious as to why 3-5 grams isn't enough.

 

[STWACOACH**]

pubmed.com

 

[fat_wilhelm]

Back to Sonny's original post, I find this very interesting... thanks for sharing. As you probably know from past threads, Sonny, I'm in a similar boat as you with the family history of depression and anxiety. I, myself, take Zoloft. I do take fish oil, but not consistently enough and probably not in high enough doses. I'm going to play with my fish oil intake now, however, and keep track of my mental health.

I, too, am curious about optimal dosage. I'll check out pubmed and do some investigating on my own.

 

[Matt Meinrod]

If all the medical evidence is true than Fish Oil will be the wonder drug/supplement of the future...