Planks are pointless

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by Noodles03, Mar 29, 2018.

  1. Noodles03 Blue Belt

    Noodles03
    Joined:
    May 16, 2013
    Messages:
    658
    Likes Received:
    433
    Location:
    Southern California
    #1
    Krimzon likes this.
  2. MatterOverMind Pulling for you

    MatterOverMind
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2007
    Messages:
    6,175
    Likes Received:
    280
    Location:
    Deadlift alley
    I really wish this forum had a "neg" button.

    WTF? seriously?

    One person says something, based on zero scientific testing, and then someone else is supposed to give a fuck?

    Fuck right off with this shit. He could be right, or he could be wrong, but you just posted a link to one of the shittiest articles ever written.

    And, for some reason unbeknownst to me, I actually gave enough fucks to look up your post history...

    You don't know a fucking thing about anything. Stop posting and start reading. Everybody (including you) would benefit from it.
     
    #2
    blackhat, bad seed, Eli1015 and 9 others like this.
  3. jgarner Red Belt

    jgarner
    Joined:
    May 12, 2015
    Messages:
    8,592
    Likes Received:
    7,258

    I've heard this logic before. It's using the same philosophy that doing more than x reps is pointless for strength training and that you should move to more advanced positions or heavier weights and do less reps.

    There's some truth to this, but using the term never is a bit harsh. I like planks and use them in my program.
     
    #3
    AZ103 and mrbaapt like this.
  4. Noodles03 Blue Belt

    Noodles03
    Joined:
    May 16, 2013
    Messages:
    658
    Likes Received:
    433
    Location:
    Southern California
    I was a bit curious because the person who said it was Dr. Stuart McGill and he's consider to be an expert with spine health.
     
    #4
    YukisHeart and Krimzon like this.
  5. nastyElbows also avirgin Orange Belt

    nastyElbows also avirgin
    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2016
    Messages:
    267
    Likes Received:
    224
    i almost don't train my abs at all.
     
    #5
    MacDuffle likes this.
  6. corpse Random Belt

    corpse
    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2012
    Messages:
    498
    Likes Received:
    5,599
    me neither. but i am not functional anyway.
     
    #6
    Phlog likes this.
  7. MatterOverMind Pulling for you

    MatterOverMind
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2007
    Messages:
    6,175
    Likes Received:
    280
    Location:
    Deadlift alley
    Holy fuck, that was harsh. My apologies.
     
    #7
    Gandhi, AZ103, Snowfist and 1 other person like this.
  8. Noodles03 Blue Belt

    Noodles03
    Joined:
    May 16, 2013
    Messages:
    658
    Likes Received:
    433
    Location:
    Southern California
    No worries. <Oku04>
     
    #8
    Tro, AZ103 and Snowfist like this.
  9. KnightTemplar Infinity Belt

    KnightTemplar
    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Messages:
    29,223
    Likes Received:
    26,713
    Location:
    Edinburgh
    <escalate99>
     
    #9
    AminoAcid, blackhat, Tro and 7 others like this.
  10. RyanR Black Belt

    RyanR
    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2002
    Messages:
    5,178
    Likes Received:
    2,833
    Location:
    Parts unknown
    10 seconds seems way too short IMO
     
    #10
  11. JimRussel Purple Belt

    JimRussel
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2015
    Messages:
    2,243
    Likes Received:
    1,102
    It’s not the first time I’ve seen something like that posted.

    And it’s coming from McGill.

    Also: “My conclusions come from many studies that we have performed, not just a single one.”

    Your opinion is certainly yours to have, but I think I’ll go with Stuart McGill.
     
    #11
    Sano likes this.
  12. WandySaku2 Green Belt

    WandySaku2
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2012
    Messages:
    1,348
    Likes Received:
    817
    They kinda seem unnecessary as long as you squat and deadlift. Doing those have gotten my abs in decent shape.
     
    #12
    mcveteran81 likes this.
  13. gspieler Red Belt

    gspieler
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2010
    Messages:
    9,511
    Likes Received:
    8,565
    Location:
    In der mittel
    #13
  14. jrams Black Belt

    jrams
    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2007
    Messages:
    6,017
    Likes Received:
    4,869
    Location:
    Beantown
    I got excited when I read this:

    "Basically holding repeated holds of 10 seconds is best for the average person. But for people looking for better back health they should be doing the Big 3 everyday."

    but then I saw

    "The 'Big 3' involves curl ups, side-plank and bird dog, a pose which involves starting on the hands and knees the reaching out the opposite arm and leg."

    and I lost interest
     
    #14
  15. beat...people...up? White Belt

    beat...people...up?
    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2018
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    91
    Uhhh, bird dog is a warm-up, not a particularly challenging move. Even the old ladies in Pilates do them from pushup position to make them harder.

    They are a great spine stabilizer before lifting, though.

    As for plank, I figure I get enough planking doing pushups, but I am lazy about abs and... isn't a lot of grappling isometric holds?
     
    #15
  16. Sano Black Belt

    Sano
    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2011
    Messages:
    5,226
    Likes Received:
    8,450
    Location:
    Denmark
    While I far from agree with everything he says, Stuart McGill is one of the leading authorities of mechanical lower back pain in the world. That should count for something.

    It's easy to do bird dogs, it's very hard to do them right.
     
    #16
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2018
    EL CORINTHIAN, MacDuffle and AZ103 like this.
  17. beat...people...up? White Belt

    beat...people...up?
    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2018
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    91
    What do people usually do wrong with bird dogs?

    and I think you could say the same about planks. The reason I believe most trainers say not to do prolonged planks is that the vast majority of regular gymgoers are not in fact planking. They are propping themselves up on their elbows with totally disengaged core and sagging glutes. But if someone can actually keep full-body tension it's an excellent exercise, especially with added weight, like a sandbag. Agree that people doing "plank challenges" for like 2+ minutes are just ridiculous and clearly missing the point. But 30 seconds to a minute? Seems reasonable to me--after all, how long does a set of squats take?
     
    #17
    Sano likes this.
  18. mooshy Black Belt

    mooshy
    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Messages:
    5,294
    Likes Received:
    2,108
    Location:
    Brooklyn
    I do them to improve squat and dl (well just cleans atm). Planks with less than 4 points are a good indicator of where your body is deficient in terms of functional movement and motor skill. Shit it's one of the movements in the functional movement screen.

    Try doing a 2 point plank with opposite hand/foot. If you're wobbly at all or awkward with it that's telling you something. Now try doing a plank with 2 points on one side. Pretty difficult for most.

    Also I didn't read the article until I wrote the above and I pretty much agree with him except I'd put the time at 20 secs. The thread title is also misleading.
     
    #18
    WandySaku2 and Sano like this.
  19. Sano Black Belt

    Sano
    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2011
    Messages:
    5,226
    Likes Received:
    8,450
    Location:
    Denmark
    Bird dogs are hard in that you have to keep a neutral spine while moving the extremeties. It's anti extension and anti-rotation and you want it to be symmetrical on both sides. Hips comes into play a lot. Add to that, you can't see if you're swaying, or shifting, or if your pelvis is rotating, so you have to rely on the feel. Best is someone instructing you because what you're feeling is not always what's going on.

    This is of course if we really want to be strict about it, but that's the real purpose of the exercise. It's not just lifting your arms and legs. Moving from strength to control is another form of difficulty.

    Yeah I think you got the right idea. He's coming from a point of view of lower back pain and is biased in that regard, though most of us will experience periodic episodes of back pain. I also wouldn't say that the cutoff is necessarily 10 seconds or whatever, as long as the quality of the exercise remains. I think that what happen is that people with chronic lower back pain can easily hurt more if you pass a threshold that is often not very apparent. I could also theorise that for practical purposes, most reflexive stabilisation of the core in daily life (to support an activity and reduce pain) happens in shorter durations. I haven't read what he's using to back the 10 seconds up with and I've found myself disagreeing with his study finds before. He did kinda overemphasize the whole "flexion cause disc denegeration" thing a few years ago, which is without context and brought a lot of bad shit with it.

    That aside, fun part is when you can hold the plank well and then start moving into different exercises with it. That's the next level of progression.
     
    #19
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2018
  20. Kirks White Belt

    Kirks
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2017
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    49
    Can you post a vid of how it’s meant to be done correctly?
     
    #20

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "fd5733925866a04e50edd70f38dfaa35"
monitoring_string = "603ac9fff68f23709f2a42bf5e29272b"