Pervasive sexual abuse at religious schools in Pakistan

[Starman]

It's men doing the abusing, right? That's crazy that, regardless of religion, race, nationality, culture, workplace, or era, all mass sexual abuse is perpetrated by men. It's almost as if the radical feminists aren't wrong when they say maybe masculinity is fucked up.

...nah, that can't be it. Fuckin muslims/Pakistanis/religion.

Women aren't sexually abusive?

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Must be the White Man's fault, for putting them all on reserves and also the introduction of alcohol.

 

[InternetHero]

Well , no matter the country it is horrible .

My point was that religious clerics , be they Catholic, Hindu, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Christian etc... have many in their ranks who use the power of religion to abuse people. And in countries where religion plays a prominent role, you can't even confront these scumbags.

Sure.

I think Hollywood has been busy showing us on a daily basis now that power, adherence to a culture of shame and reputation, and the last 40 years of sexual excess have infected just about everything and everyone.

We might also consider:

1. Do religions with more of a hierarchy have more potential for abuses? Shia Islam, modern Catholicism et al.

2. Has modern communication encouraged perverts to find these avenues of power and protect themselves? That seems to be the case in the Catholic church.

3. Maybe the problem was just as serious in years past, but then again maybe putting an entire world of sexual excess and fantasy at people's fingertips, and in the west on their televisions, and in the common discourse of most societies, had the kind of massive effect that every other social influence has.

 

[Leagon]

Women aren't sexually abusive?

I didn't say they weren't.

 

[squeezewax]

The jehovah's witness is rife with pedophiles. This was revealed when the police in Aussie called for a Royal Commission so the witnesses could be looked at. Apparently the police had been getting so many complaints about the pedophilia they knew they had to act.
The terrible thing is that the watchtower cult hide and protect active pedophiles.
Over 1000 pedos were identified as being responsible for 5006 incidents over 50 yrs. That is a hell of a lot.
The number of these predators reported to the police after molesting/raping a child was 0! That correct, absolutely none! It's incredible isn't it? You wouldn't think it possible. Naturally these pedos would of gone on and attacked more kids because they weren't handed over to the cops.
Congregations around the world were sent memos over the years stating that 'with sexual crimes do not hand the perpetrators over to the authorities.' Yet this 'faith' identifies as a christian religion!
One elder who was being interegated at the Royal Commission was asked if he were in the same situation again would he do the same thing?[not going to the cops.] He said yes!

 

[Starman]

Women aren't sexually abusive?

I didn't say they weren't.

It's men doing the abusing, right?

 

[Leagon]

My question that you quoted was in reference to this specific incident. Your questioned seemed in reference to women, in general, being sexually abusive.

Or did I misread? Are you asking me whether this specific incident involved sexually abusive women? Why? I'm not the TS or the writer of the article the TS linked.

 

[MicroBrew]

Religion has nothing to do with it. Look at politics. Look at Hollywood. The idea that sexual abuse is somehow a result of religion is sheer, utter stupidity.

Religion affords a kind of infuence and power not found in business and politics. Religious brainwashing
is the most potent.

 

[Starman]

Religion affords a kind of infuence and power not found in business and politics. Religious brainwashing
is the most potent.

Bullshit. Look at China, the Soviet Union, North Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, Nazi Germany, or any other communist/socialist shithole without religion and you'll see some of the most deluded, brainwashed morons of all time.

It is completely asinine to blame religion for a problem that is clearly and purely a human problem. Or do you foolishly believe that human nature is inherently good, and that if it weren't for pesky spiritual beliefs we would all be living in a communist utopia?

 

[MicroBrew]

Bullshit. Look at China, the Soviet Union, North Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, Nazi Germany, or any other communist/socialist shithole without religion and you'll see some of the most deluded, brainwashed morons of all time.

It is completely asinine to blame religion for a problem that is clearly and purely a human problem. Or do you foolishly believe that human nature is inherently good, and that if it weren't for pesky spiritual beliefs we would all be living in a communist utopia?

I am not blaming religion, just some religions for major issues. And religion for its ability to abuse people. People who cloak themselves in religious garb and titles, are confered a degree of respect , deference and power that normal people don't have. In lots of developing countries, common people are scared of offending religious figures, either due to earthly violence or pissing off their god.

Religious brainwashing is the oldest and most effective. The various socio economic isms can not justify their action as diviniely inspired and mandated. The use of the divine and god is the most potent form of brainwashing because people are scared and invested in life after death and a higher power in ways that are not comparable to secular isms.

Religions (some religions) can and should be blamed .Religion is man made and a reflection of the society that concocts them. Are you saying we shouldn't place a large part of the blame on Islam for how it motivates and pushed people to commit crimes against humanity?

And the Nazis were Catholic and Christian. Look at all the religious ordained genocides in the Americas, Middle East, South Asia, South East Asia, Africa etc..Religiously inspired crimes have been with us for way longer than Communism. Communism is effectively dead, the same can't be said of major crimes linked to religion.

 

[Starman]

I am not blaming religion, just some religions for major issues.

Look, I agree some religions are shit. But at the end of the day, as you yourself admitted later in this very post, religions are man-made. So, again, it is human nature itself which is flawed. Religion is just one of the countless vehicles humans use to destroy themselves.

And religion for its ability to abuse people.

Religion doesn't abuse people. People abuse people.

People who cloak themselves in religious garb and titles, are confered a degree of respect , deference and power that normal people don't have.

As are politicians. Atheists like Hitler, Mao, Stalin, and the Kims have murdered more people in the name of political ideology than every religion on the face of the earth have combined.

Again, none of this has to do with religion. It has to do with the flawed nature of Man.

In lots of developing countries, common people are scared of offending religious figures, either due to earthly violence or pissing off their god.

Name one. Because there are plenty of socialist/communist shit holes where you are murdered or imprisoned for offending the state ideology, ruling party, or political leader. China, North Korea, Venezuela, Cuba, and Vietnam to name a few.

Religious brainwashing is the oldest and most effective.

No, it isn't. Religion's power to wreak havoc on humanity on a large scale can only happen when it is combined with political power. Without political power, even the world's greatest religious leaders (Jesus) can end up dead.

The various socio economic isms can not justify their action as diviniely inspired and mandated. The use of the divine and god is the most potent form of brainwashing because people are scared and invested in life after death and a higher power in ways that are not comparable to secular isms.

Again, total bullshit. Hitler, Mussolini, Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, and the Kims never needed religion to kill millions. I'm afraid you're just parroting talking points that have zero substance.

Religions (some religions) can and should be blamed.

Again, I agree some religions are shit. Islam is shit. But, again, it is the people behind these religions who make them terrible. And, as I've said multiple times, even without religion humans have mastered the art of killing each other.

It is the imperfection of Man that is at the heart of everything wrong with this planet, not religion or anything else.

Religion is man made and a reflection of the society that concocts them.

Then blame the man. It's a poor workman who blames his tools.

Are you saying we shouldn't place a large part of the blame on Islam for how it motivates and pushed people to commit crimes against humanity?

Islam is shit, but its power comes from the shit people who are behind it.

And the Nazis were Catholic and Christian.

No, they weren't. Again, you're just parroting the same tired old bullshit that every other uneducated leftist does. Hitler despised Christianity. He thought it was weak. He was actually more praiseworthy of Islam, which at least had a militarized component to it.

Hitler himself admitted in Mein Kampf that he was initially not openly anti-Christian because he did not want to alienate possible supporters. All of Hitler's closest confidants, such as Goebbels, wrote in their diaries of Hitler's hatred of Christianity, and his desire to stamp it out of Germany completely.

Do you seriously think a man hellbent on exterminating Jews would be supportive of a Jew religion like Christianity? Seriously, man. Think.

Look at all the religious ordained genocides in the Americas, Middle East, South Asia, South East Asia, Africa etc..Religiously inspired crimes have been with us for way longer than Communism. Communism is effectively dead, the same can't be said of major crimes linked to religion.

Name, specifically, which "religious genocides" you are referring to. Don't just toss generalizations out there. Name them, then tally up the numbers, and see how close it comes to the number of people killed under communism/socialism.

As for your claim that communism is dead, I guess someone forgot to tell a shitload of countries in Asia and South America.

 

[MicroBrew]

Look, I agree some religions are shit. But at the end of the day, as you yourself admitted later in this very post, religions are man-made. So, again, it is human nature itself which is flawed. Religion is just one of the countless vehicles humans use to destroy themselves.

We all accept that all ideologies are man-made, but we are specifically focusing on the man-made ideology of religion vs. secular ideologies.

Religion doesn't abuse people. People abuse people.

That isn't the argument. The agument is what tools people use to abuse people.

As are politicians. Atheists like Hitler, Mao, Stalin, and the Kims have murdered more people in the name of political ideology than every religion on the face of the earth have combined.

Again, none of this has to do with religion. It has to do with the flawed nature of Man.

The figures you mentioned, with maybee the exception of Hitler and the Kims, weren't claiming to be supported by or representative of a god. Guys like Al Baghdadi, Mullah Omar, Popes, L Ron Hubbard, Joseph Smith etc.. all claim divine support. Guys like Stalin and Castro didn't.

Name one. Because there are plenty of socialist/communist shit holes where you are murdered or imprisoned for offending the state ideology, ruling party, or political leader. China, North Korea, Venezuela, Cuba, and Vietnam to name a few.

The only communist state is NK and Cuba, and NK is more a cultish commune than Communist. China isn't communist even though technically they say they are. China is a 1 party capitalistic country. Venezuela has opposition and does have capitalism; the behavior of the ruling regime suppresing dissent doesn't make them communist, because the rightwing ultra capitalist regimes that used to run Venezuela also suppressed dissent.

"Name one" : Pakistan , the subject of the OP.

No, it isn't. Religion's power to wreak havoc on humanity on a large scale can only happen when it is combined with political power. Without political power, even the world's greatest religious leaders (Jesus) can end up dead.

Religion is a usefull and powerfull tool to attain political power. Political power utilizing religion is worse than one that doesn't use religion because religious brainwashing is soo effective in warping people and subdoing them

Again, total bullshit. Hitler, Mussolini, Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, and the Kims never needed religion to kill millions. I'm afraid you're just parroting talking points that have zero substance.

And religion inspired genocides have exterminated people for thousands of years, long before the secular ideologies. Religion has been destroying more people for a long period of time. Religion was used to enslave and wipe out the natives in the Americas. It was used by Arabs to enslave animist Africans. Muslims used religion to spread their faith by the sword , in the process genociding a lot of cultures. Hindus have used religion for multiple millenia to subjugate and rape lower caste people.

Religious conquest, carries with it evangelism of the conquered group, which is just a form of cultural genocide.

Again, I agree some religions are shit. Islam is shit. But, again, it is the people behind these religions who make them terrible. And, as I've said multiple times, even without religion humans have mastered the art of killing each other.

It is the imperfection of Man that is at the heart of everything wrong with this planet, not religion or anything else.

Blaming the religion does not absolve man, because man created religion. Some religions are to blame, because ideologically they justify and promote crimes against humanity.

It is pointless to say man is at the heart of everything, because that is understood . The argument is about a specific intellectual creation of man that is most at fault.

Then blame the man. It's a poor workman who blames his tools.

Having used cheap tools and quality tools, there is a big difference in ability to accomplish a job. Cheap tools are inaccurate and do not function as needed.

Islam is shit, but its power comes from the shit people who are behind it.

The shit people in Islam use the Islamic theology to do shit things. The decent Muslims ignore the shit theology of Islam

No, they weren't. Again, you're just parroting the same tired old bullshit that every other uneducated leftist does. Hitler despised Christianity. He thought it was weak. He was actually more praiseworthy of Islam, which at least had a militarized component to it.

Hitler himself admitted in Mein Kampf that he was initially not openly anti-Christian because he did not want to alienate possible supporters. All of Hitler's closest confidants, such as Goebbels, wrote in their diaries of Hitler's hatred of Christianity, and his desire to stamp it out of Germany completely.

Do you seriously think a man hellbent on exterminating Jews would be supportive of a Jew religion like Christianity? Seriously, man. Think.

They can be critical of Christianity and still be a force largely claiming to be Christian. It is not contradictory to be ardently Christian or atleast identify oneself as culturally Christian and not like Jews, because for a long time Jews were blamed for the death of Jesus. And Christian nation states can use Christianity as a form of tribalism , consequently be oppsed to outsiders like Jews. Nazis didn't specifically conduct themselves as a religious movement, like ISIS, but they were made up largely of Christians (Catholics especially) , and weren't opposed to Christian identity and religion like Stalin.

Name, specifically, which "religious genocides" you are referring to. Don't just toss generalizations out there. Name them, then tally up the numbers, and see how close it comes to the number of people killed under communism/socialism.

As for your claim that communism is dead, I guess someone forgot to tell a shitload of countries in Asia and South America.

Genocides where religion played an important role, is New World colonialism. Where natives were forced to or pressured to convert, there-by losing their distinct identity. Where natives were killed and enslaved because they were not Christian. Religion was used to wage cultural genocide on African slaves: Muslims forcefully converting indegenous African religions and Christians forcing their religion onto the slaves. The genocides conducted by Muslims all over North Africa, Sub Saharan Africa, South Asia, Near East, Balkans. Genocides conducted by certain Hindu castes against tribals and lower castes.

Communism is dead. It died with the USSR. Only NK and Cuba are holdouts , and NK is more a cult commune than a Communist nation. Socialism does not necessarily equate to communism, because nations have varyinfg degrees of Socialism. Western Europe has many Socialist practices, but they aren't Communist.

 

[Ezekiel 2517]

Scumbags the world over use religion for self serving needs. Pedophiles and sexual abusers gravitate towards professions that gives them access to vulnerable people, including minors. Catholic clergy, Mullahs, Swamis,Monks etc.. all have more than their fair share of sexual abusers. Religon is such a usefull tool to exploit and abuse people.

Government is a useful tool to exploit people. I mean, the USSR government and Mao's government murdered over 50 million people.
Therefor governments are all evil with no redeeming qualities so lets abolish all governments.
That would work out well.

Every system that has had people who abused it to wrong others should be shut down....so we have to destroy every system that is, ever was, or ever will be.

I WANT MY EARTHLY UTOPIA BECAUSE THAT IS SOMETHING THAT CAN ACTUALLY HAPPEN!!!!

Be like Nietzsche and philosophize with a HAMMER, not a PROLAPSED ANUS from such butthurt.

Political power utilizing religion is worse than one that doesn't use religion because religious brainwashing is soo effective in warping people and subdoing them.

LOL, again, the USRR and Maoist regimes were emphatically anti reliigous and the worst the word over.
Read the encyclopedia of war. It uses FACTS and determines that only 5% of war and less than 5% of deaths from war had a religious cause.
Facts don't care about your feelings.

Just edit your OP because your butthurt outweighs your logic/reason. Your butthurt is the size of Amy Schumer and Lena Dunham scissoring, and your faculty of reason is as emaciated as Calista Flockhart.

 

[MicroBrew]

Government is a useful tool to exploit people. I mean, the USSR government and Mao's government murdered over 50 million people.
Therefor governments are all evil with no redeeming qualities so lets abolish all governments.
That would work out well.

Every system that has had people who abused it to wrong others should be shut down....so we have to destroy every system that is, ever was, or ever will be.

I WANT MY EARTHLY UTOPIA BECAUSE THAT IS SOMETHING THAT CAN ACTUALLY HAPPEN!!!!

Be like Nietzsche and philosophize with a HAMMER, not a PROLAPSED ANUS from such butthurt.



LOL, again, the USRR and Maoist regimes were emphatically anti reliigous and the worst the word over.
Read the encyclopedia of war. It uses FACTS and determines that only 5% of war and less than 5% of deaths from war had a religious cause.
Facts don't care about your feelings.

Just edit your OP because your butthurt outweighs your logic/reason. Your butthurt is the size of Amy Schumer and Lena Dunham scissoring, and your faculty of reason is as emaciated as Calista Flockhart.

Your obsession with terms such as "anus" and "butthurt" and reference to some female celebs point to some deeper issues, none which I give a dam about.

It isn't that secular governments can't be used to abuse people, the argument is that religion affords a degree of control and brainwashing not available to secular tryants. With religion, people are told they are going against the divine, the creator, if they oppose. This is a far more powerfull socially manipulative force than secular isms. Religion works across hundreds of generations; how many generations has Communism managed to entrench itself in people.

No it is your opinion the USSR and CCCP were/are the worst. Others will say that Colonialism, imperialism , Nazism, Fascism, Islamism are just as bad if not worse.

 

[Renard]

A general problem with Arab countries is they tightly control the behaviour of women. They're not allowed to go out under most circumstances, they can only engage in a limited range of activities, men aren't allowed to speak to them, even male family members have limited contact with them. The crux of the problem is that these traditions go contrary to human nature. Men naturally want to talk to women, flirt with women, engage in relationships, spend time with them. But that entire process is stonewalled by incredibly rigid tradition, so the men channel their sexuality towards children - usually boys because they're not under lock and key like the girls. When it's systematic, it becomes the new "normal" and they don't question their behaviour.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

A general problem with Arab countries is they tightly control the behaviour of women. They're not allowed to go out under most circumstances, they can only engage in a limited range of activities, men aren't allowed to speak to them, even male family members have limited contact with them. The crux of the problem is that these traditions go contrary to human nature. Men naturally want to talk to women, flirt with women, engage in relationships, spend time with them. But that entire process is stonewalled by incredibly rigid tradition, so the men channel their sexuality towards children - usually boys because they're not under lock and key like the girls. When it's systematic, it becomes the new "normal" and they don't question their behaviour.

Yes, it's like prison sex.

 

[Renard]

BTW here are some documentaries to get a grasp on the type of climate people live under in Arab countries. It's not limited to religious schools, it's present systematically in every layer of society due to men being practically unable to have any contact with women.

Pakistan:


Afghanistan:

 

[Hollywood Jack]

A general problem with Arab countries is they tightly control the behaviour of women. They're not allowed to go out under most circumstances, they can only engage in a limited range of activities, men aren't allowed to speak to them, even male family members have limited contact with them. The crux of the problem is that these traditions go contrary to human nature. Men naturally want to talk to women, flirt with women, engage in relationships, spend time with them. But that entire process is stonewalled by incredibly rigid tradition, so the men channel their sexuality towards children - usually boys because they're not under lock and key like the girls. When it's systematic, it becomes the new "normal" and they don't question their behaviour.

BTW here are some documentaries to get a grasp on the type of climate people live under in Arab countries. It's not limited to religious schools, it's present systematically in every layer of society due to men being practically unable to have any contact with women.

Pakistan:


Afghanistan:

If I could just offer a slight correction, we should refer to these countries as Muslim countries rather than Arab countries since Pakistanis and Afghanis are not Arabs, but they are Muslims. Most Arabs are Muslims, but most Muslims are not Arabs. The most highly populated Muslim countries are Indonesia, Pakistan and Bangladesh, none of which are Arab. But other than that, I completely agree.

 

[Renard]

If I could just offer a slight correction, we should refer to these countries as Muslim countries rather than Arab countries since Pakistanis and Afghanis are not Arabs, but they are Muslims. Most Arabs are Muslims, but most Muslims are not Arabs. The most highly populated Muslim countries are Indonesia, Pakistan and Bangladesh, none of which are Arab. But other than that, I completely agree.

That's not true though. Ethnic Arabs were the nomadic people of the Arabian peninsula. After the conquests, under the Umayyad caliphate, almost all ruling positions were occupied by ethnic Arabs and they benefited from special privilege. But that didn't even last 100 years. Starting from the Abbasid caliphate the term Arab lost all its' ethnic connotation because the mawalis (Muslim converts) gained equal rights and opportunities. In the meantime the Arabic language swept through the entire empire, becoming the common language.

The best definition is this:
"All those are Arabs for whom the central fact of history is the mission of Muhammad and the memory of the Arab Empire and who in addition cherish the Arabic tongue and its cultural heritage as their common possession."

Basically it's a common cultural identity, they're the inheritors of the Arabs.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

That's not true though. Ethnic Arabs were the nomadic people of the Arabian peninsula. After the conquests, under the Umayyad caliphate, almost all ruling positions were occupied by ethnic Arabs and they benefited from special privilege. But that didn't even last 100 years. Starting from the Abbasid caliphate the term Arab lost all its' ethnic connotation because the mawalis (Muslim converts) gained equal rights and opportunities. In the meantime the Arabic language swept through the entire empire, becoming the common language.

The best definition is this:
"All those are Arabs for whom the central fact of history is the mission of Muhammad and the memory of the Arab Empire and who in addition cherish the Arabic tongue and its cultural heritage as their common possession."

Basically it's a common cultural identity, they're the inheritors of the Arabs.

Arabic is neither an official language, nor a widely spoken language in those countries. The languages they speak are unrelated to Arabic. They are not ethnic Arabs. What I said is factually true and no experts would disagree with me on this.