People who lack social skills in BJJ

[Hywel Teague]

I'm not sure if it's a sign of times, a jiu-jitsu thing or something else... But I've noticed lately that a lot of young guys training BJJ seriously lack social skills.

Most of them are young and immature, so there's that. And they've grown up where you text message and IM people instead of talking to them IRL, so put it all together and they're not exactly great at conversation outside of Family Guy references, and especially not good at befriending people from different ages or cultures.

BUT I've also seen young guys who were extremely smart and personable, and they've thrived - they've been taken into inner circles, quickly made friends and got a lot out of their time here.

Last week I read for the first time "How to Win Friends and Influence People", simply out of curiosity. And I got thinking, wow some of these kids could use a lesson in how to interact with people.

Social capital is a valuable asset, especially in jiu-jitsu, though many people probably don't realise it.

The focus of the following article is on people who are training BJJ in Rio but I hope the lessons could be applicable wherever you are.

Let me know what you think.

How to Win Friends, Influence People & Experience the BEST BJJ in Rio

 

[FishinWithFredo]

peep the audio book thug its free on utube

 

[bowened]

Hey Gramps. What was it like in the good old day?

 

[Zankou]

"1: Become genuinely interested in other people.
2: Smile.
3: Remember that a person’s name is, to that person, the sweetest and most important sound in any language.

It may seem overly simply, but by overlooking the 3 principles above, you’re automatically putting yourself at a disadvantage. "

. . .

That's not really what the English phrase "genuine interest" means.

 

[Balto]

BJJ has attracted social outcasts as long as I've been doing it. I think that is a normal for this kind of sport. Sports that aren't played scholastically usually attract a decent number of kids who didn't play sports in school. Not surprisingly, these kids aren't as good socially.

The main difference I have seen is the way BJJ deals with this. The old way was to use BJJ to help change this. When I started, the gym and training partners made up the social circle for a lot of guys who otherwise would have none. We'd order UFCs, go to parties, just generally hang out a lot. We just had fun like normal people. I saw firsthand how it changed some guys' lives for the better. Guys who got bullied all the time as kids suddenly found confidence and the ability to interact socially in a normal way.

That still exists to some degree, but now there is another competing paradigm that has popped up since. That paradigm is to dedicate yourself 100% to BJJ, leaving no room for any kind of social interaction whatsoever. Rather than using BJJ to become more normal, you use BJJ to become even weirder. If you want to win gold medals, you have to be weird, right? 3% and all that. So if 97% of people hate you, good. Better train even harder, become even more socially distant, and make that 99.9%. Then you'll be a real champ.

Luckily I've seen this paradigm on the decline again after recent events. It seemed to peak around the time that creepy Jordon Schultz piece came out -- the one where he was talking about how he makes himself incapable of loving anyone, even his family, how he only feels happy maybe one day out of a year, etc.

http://www.pullingguardzine.com/blog/Jordonzinearticle.pdf

In hindsight, I think most would agree now that this article was creepy as fuck and eerily prophetic given how future events would unfold around him. But at the time, a lot of people supported his view and said that's just what it takes.

Hopefully we can see the problem now. But maybe not.

 

[Zankou]

That article is indeed a hilarious treasure trove. Just the introductory sentence is pure comedy:

"If there's one negative aspect to the life of a jiu jitsu athlete it's the lack of satisfaction involved."

So then quit. Why be a retard?

 

[Uchi Mata]

"1: Become genuinely interested in other people.
2: Smile.
3: Remember that a person

 

[NateTx4112]

Loved some of the Carnegie stuff...it's almost impossible to implement 100% but it was a quick easy read and had an immediate impact.

As far as the OP I think it's a changing of the times with social media replacing so much interaction. We have some kids that I'd rather have a conversation with a fence post then with them. Then we have some really bright kids that are awesome and I like taking under my wing.

 

[Balto]

That article is indeed a hilarious treasure trove. Just the introductory sentence is pure comedy:

"If there's one negative aspect to the life of a jiu jitsu athlete it's the lack of satisfaction involved."

So then quit. Why be a retard?

It's so clear now. But if you dig up the original thread on it, most commenting on it sincerely agreed with him.

Of course that was a different time with a lot of illusions going around that have since been shattered. That article was written right around the peak of BJJ scam artist internet marketing douchebag cult movement. It reflects its time.

I think BJJ has started to find its way back to a conscience, slowly, since then. I hope that continues.

 

[Dirty Holt]

BJJ is full of combat sport athletes, not Hollywood socialites. I can guarantee you this though: The punk kids you talk about just texting all of the time get more social interaction than almost anyone who is over the age of 35.

 

[Balto]

To Hywel, have you thought that part of it might be selection bias? I mean, BJJ isn't exactly like going our for the football team. It's an alternative sport that not a lot of teenage alpha males are going to pursue, I think it's more likely to attract kids who like to watch kung fu movies and have serious doubts about their ability to handle themselves in a confrontation. In other words, kinda nerdy kids. I certainly fit that description when I started martial arts in high school. Frankly, martial arts were great for me from a social perspective because they introduced me to a wide spectrum of people and gave us something in common to talk about, but I didn't bring a lot of social skills to the table when I started. I don't think it has anything to do with text messaging etc, I think it has everything to do with kids who don't really fit into traditional sporting cultures who like the empowering aspect of martial arts being attracted to BJJ in the first place.

Yes, it's the typical martial arts selection bias. I also see it in other "alternative" athletic activities that most people get into college age or later.

I'm not that much different myself. I was fine in school socially, but mostly because I had the martial arts back then too. I did it all throughout my life, and it helped me learn how to fit in.

I was skinny, smart, and not very good at the scholastic sports we did in gym class. Kids would try to pick on me accordingly. But since I had the martial arts, I fought back all the time and learned how to deal with it.

If I didn't have that back then, my life would probably have been a lot different.

 

[Hywel Teague]

"1: Become genuinely interested in other people.
2: Smile.
3: Remember that a person

 

[Hywel Teague]

To Hywel, have you thought that part of it might be selection bias?

Absolutely. But as the sample selection comes from a wide range of nationalities I'm not 100% sure if it's a social issue or a cultural issue. I know I too was guilty of much of the behaviours listed in the article when I arrived in Brazil and I'm by no means a public introvert.

For example Scandinavians and Russians often have a hard time ingratiating themselves with the locals here in Rio due to the perception that they're cold and stand-offish, which isn't always the case - it's just a national characteristic to be more reserved. The Brazilians probably seem like hooligans to them. With other nationalities it generally depends much more on the individual.

Adapting to the local culture isn't hard but I know I could have done with a primer. It requires a small shift in behaviour if you want to thrive in the BJJ scene in Rio, and I wrote this article as I see people not 'getting it' and therefore missing out on what could otherwise be a life-changing experience.

 

[Balto]

I used to work with a guy who we paid over $100K a year to just be social, keep a good team environment at work, and use that advantage to keep recruiting new team members.

I mean he could do basic tasks too, but he was very mediocre at his job from a technical skills perspective. He could be counted on to just not mess anything up worse, but other than that he couldn't handle anything serious. So we just agreed that I would handle all the technical stuff, and he would just do his thing to recruit people and keep them happy.

It worked out great and we were incredibly successful for the few years that engagement lasted. That really showed me the power of investing in people. Seemed a little silly at first to have so many happy hours, team bonding type of things, etc. But he forged a real solid team identity that paid itself back many times over.

Personally I'm not the best at this naturally, so I have to remind myself. But at least I know to remind myself to do this now.

 

[Einarr]

There's nothing wrong with giving your all to something you love. If that makes me weird then I'm fine with that.

 

[Calibur]

Ironically, doesn't Dale Caranagie's book come off as it was written by a sociopath?

 

[Zankou]

To some extent, I think his message is contradictory. It asks you to form genuine and sincere attitudes towards other people, becoming truly interested in their life, but by the same token it tells you that this is the path to earning great rewards and getting other people to do what you want.

It's not necessarily bad advice, but what he is talking about is not what one usually means by being genuine or sincere -- being genuinely interested in other people's kids, for example, usually means you are genuinely interested in the kids' lives regardless of the utility of that interest. Not that you are interested in them as a way to build a personal relationship that will get you what you ultimately want ... a fat sales commission!

As far as I can tell, and I haven't read the book, Carnegy gives fairly practical advice, but when he starts talking about being genuine and sincere it comes across as a sales job. And no surprise he promises that by following his advice you'll become better at sales ... but this is just terminology and politeness, I think.

 

[Hywel Teague]

Ironically, doesn't Dale Caranagie's book come off as it was written by a sociopath?

Depends on your perspective.

You have generations of people who idolise the tepid writings of the clearly-disturbed sociopath Ayn Rand. I'd happily read Dale Carnegie's upbeat works over Ayn's scribblings any day of the week, and I think the world would be a lot better off if people disregarded her pulp philosophy and tried being nicer to each other.

 

[Hywel Teague]

As far as I can tell, and I haven't read the book

In that case I'd suggest you take a look. It's a lot less mercenary than you think.

 

[Zankou]

It doesn't strike me as terribly mercenary, just contradictory and a bit dissembling. Like I say, I think a lot of it strikes me as good advice. But all this going on about being genuine and sincere, accompanied by all these huge promises of success and influencing people, is not what I think of as being genuine or sincere.

To borrow a line from Jesus, it's kind of like putting money in the poor box and making damn sure everybody sees it, as opposed to putting money in the poor box while making sure nobody sees it. There's not necessarily anything wrong with either approach, but they're not the same either.