People used to tap to strikes in the old UFC all the time

[MikeMcMann]

There isn't a great deal of mental strength difference between:

1. Tapping to strikes
2. Rolling over and giving your opponent an easy choke.
3. Completely and totally turtling to the point where you are literally incapable of getting to your feet or generating offense, and simply waiting for the ref to stop the fight.

It's a hard business man. People should err on the side of being too respectful to fighters vis-a-vis matters of courage and heart than the opposite.

Yup.

its only stupid people that do not see that.

If you take two guys getting the same beating and one rolls over and gives up the choke or turtles allowing the ref to stop it or he simply goes out cold because his jaw is gone and he cannot take much abuse, how does that make him tougher than a guy who can eat shot after shot, after shot, while not blacking out but just eating career and life limiting abuse?

I think we all know that answer. At least the smarter posters do. Fighters and football players and other concussive prone sport's athletes have all seen too many fellow athletes brain damaged and drooling al over themselves while under permanent care to prioritize looking tough for some shertard over protecting their heads from unnecessary abuse or when they can no longer defend themselves.

 

[bigconan]

Exactly. And didn't Wedum already nearly catch him in the same choke earlier in the fight? My memory might be failing me. But if so, you could say that Cain was looking for a way out after being exhausted and rocked on the feet, by shooting for a takedown that any black belt could easily counter.

I don't think that cain was looking for a way out...he was getting beat on the feet and needed something different to try...though takedowns against werdum is a stupid idea...even if you don't get caught, you won't do any damage..

 

[MikeMcMann]

Fighters want to avoid trauma to the head. But they are not as aware of the damages of brain trauma, which tends to accumulate in the long term. If you poll professional fighters to inquire whether they rather be KO'd or burst an ACL, we could have an idea of where their priorities are. I have no idea what the answers would be. I wouldn't be surprised that they trivialise the head injury to some extent.

Sorry but only a few idiots like yourself are not fully aware of the long term effects of head trauma. There simply now have been too many movies and even training partners and friends of athletes suffering it.

If for instance you played competitive hockey at all in the last 30 years you likely now know personally a person with severe head trauma.

The blood choke? You still don't get the point: you LEARN to tap to those.

I GET IT. So stop saying I don't.

I am saying a real man, a tough man by your standards can UNLEARN it and train not to do it.

If a god damn journalist can walk into a interview and psych himself up not to tap then so can a professional fighter when all now know they will receive no damage.

MAN UP AND LEARN.

It's uncomfortable, feels like shit,

Oh noes. It's uncomfortable...it feels bad...ZOMG. Lol what kind of pussy are you. Do you think a fighter needs to be made to feel comfortable... to feel good... during a goddam fight. lol

You really are a pussy projecting your fears onto fighters aren't you?

and it's normal to tap out.

It's normal to not accept unlimited punches to the face as well when you cannot defend your self. Many guys surrender their backs or turtle to get the ref to stop. Few fighters just eat punches endlessly if they are too tough to black out and the ref refuses to stop the beating.

You have one example of someone who didn't tap out, out of 100s of tap outs. That comes to mind, the other "famous" case is Machida v. Jones.

There are hundreds more through out MMA history of guys blacking out to a choke without tapping. Hundreds more.

You simply do not understand how humans behave with repetition and conditioning, and you are taking an exception to make a case against the rule. It's nonsensical.

NO I simply am not being stupid like you. Almost everyone in this thread is rightly mocking you as a troll because you are being so stupid.

Athletes have learned that taking UNNECESSARY head trauma when you cannot defend it stupid and career limiting.

No one disputes this anymore.

And yet a small subset of stupid fans think athletes should continue to take head trauma to entertain them and to prove they are manly. Those fans are stupid.

 

[Buff]

I love Big Daddy Goodridge, but he's a terrible example of tapping.

lossDon FryeUFC 8 - David vs. Goliath
Feb / 16 / 1996Submission (Position)
John McCarthy12:14
Read more at http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Gary-Goodridge-129#VyfX1U7LYcgSgFM6.99

lossMario NetoUVF 6 - Universal Vale Tudo Fighting 6
Mar / 03 / 1997Submission (No Apparent Reason)
N/A16:02

lossDon FryeUFC - Ultimate Ultimate 1996
Dec / 07 / 1996Submission (Fatigue)
John McCarthy111:19

lossMark ColemanUFC 10 - The Tournament
Jul / 12 / 1996Submission (Exhaustion)
John McCarthy17:00

Then he went into "I'll fight anyone despite the fact Ik so shot my grandmother could knock me out" mode later on in his career and now can't remember what he had for breakfast and dribbles a lot.

Honestly, I'm over tapping to strikes, the same way I think it's fucking stupid not to tap to a sub... Much as I love to see bones popping and gruesome KOs.

When you're done you're done, and if the referee is not gonna save you from having to take a year out, I don't see the problem in taking the quick option, and not having to go through physio

 

[777R]

Guys in the old UFC were wearing fanny packs and new balance shoes

And Hall of Fame quality mullets.

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

Easy.

People train grappling and submission, and tapping becomes a reflex to a submission position. On the other hand, during striking training, people take breaks and make pauses: there is no "tapping" in striking drills.

For a pro fighter to tap to strikes, he really needs to have a quitter's mentality, and bring the reflex of submissions to striking. Great fighters eat the punishment and wait for the ref or take a nap.

I don't think that shows what you say it shows.

If tapping shows a quitter's mentality, then tapping in training is practicing that quitter's mentality, which is arguably worse than only displaying quitter's mentality in the actual fight.

Basically you're saying that regularly practicing what you say is a bad trait is better than showing that trait only under duress. I'd say you have it backwards, that someone who's used to quitting (chokes and locks) has that quitter's mentality to a greater extent than someone who only does so occasionally.

Again, its worse to tap to chokes and locks in that case exactly because its become automatic, just like someone who smokes or overeats regularly has poorer mental fortitude than someone who only does it on some occasions.


I should add my opinion is that its a sport, and so tapping when you're finished, whether you'er blacking out from strikes or a choke (both feel the same in my experience - head blow from a car accident vs being choked out in judo), or feel your arm bending past the breaking point, is okay. No one's life is on the line, you come back and win next time.

 

[NotSoSure]

Sorry but only a few idiots like yourself are not fully aware of the long term effects of head trauma. There simply now have been too many movies and even training partners and friends of athletes suffering it.

If for instance you played competitive hockey at all in the last 30 years you likely now know personally a person with severe head trauma.

What do you know about me to say that? Do you know what I've seen, how people close to me have died?

The point was that young fighters do take it lightly, because they don't see the immediate effect.

 

[PsychokrookedTooth]

It's definitely smart, but I guess it does suggest some sort of lack of mental strength.

Im confused bro

 

[NotSoSure]

Sorry but only a few idiots like yourself are not fully aware of the long term effects of head trauma. There simply now have been too many movies and even training partners and friends of athletes suffering it.

If for instance you played competitive hockey at all in the last 30 years you likely now know personally a person with severe head trauma.


I GET IT. So stop saying I don't.

I am saying a real man, a tough man by your standards can UNLEARN it and train not to do it.

If a god damn journalist can walk into a interview and psych himself up not to tap then so can a professional fighter when all now know they will receive no damage.

MAN UP AND LEARN.


Oh noes. It's uncomfortable...it feels bad...ZOMG. Lol what kind of pussy are you. Do you think a fighter needs to be made to feel comfortable... to feel good... during a goddam fight. lol

You really are a pussy projecting your fears onto fighters aren't you?


It's normal to not accept unlimited punches to the face as well when you cannot defend your self. Many guys surrender their backs or turtle to get the ref to stop. Few fighters just eat punches endlessly if they are too tough to black out and the ref refuses to stop the beating.


There are hundreds more through out MMA history of guys blacking out to a choke without tapping. Hundreds more.


NO I simply am not being stupid like you. Almost everyone in this thread is rightly mocking you as a troll because you are being so stupid.

Athletes have learned that taking UNNECESSARY head trauma when you cannot defend it stupid and career limiting.

No one disputes this anymore.

And yet a small subset of stupid fans think athletes should continue to take head trauma to entertain them and to prove they are manly. Those fans are stupid.

You just don't get it. You have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[NotSoSure]

I don't think that shows what you say it shows.

If tapping shows a quitter's mentality, then tapping in training is practicing that quitter's mentality, which is arguably worse than only displaying quitter's mentality in the actual fight.

Basically you're saying that regularly practicing what you say is a bad trait is better than showing that trait only under duress. I'd say you have it backwards, that someone who's used to quitting (chokes and locks) has that quitter's mentality to a greater extent than someone who only does so occasionally.

Again, its worse to tap to chokes and locks in that case exactly because its become automatic, just like someone who smokes or overeats regularly has poorer mental fortitude than someone who only does it on some occasions.


I should add my opinion is that its a sport, and so tapping when you're finished, whether you'er blacking out from strikes or a choke (both feel the same in my experience - head blow from a car accident vs being choked out in judo), or feel your arm bending past the breaking point, is okay. No one's life is on the line, you come back and win next time.

Join a Judo, Jiu Jitsu, wrestling, whatever gym, and see how the drills are made. You tap several times in a single day.

Then go and check what is done in any striking sport: there is no tapping.

that's the whole point.

If you don't get why I mocked the "tapping to strikes", I can't help you out, you're just being naive.

 

[90 50]

Tim Silvia is the goat then for letting mir break his arm

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

Join a Judo, Jiu Jitsu, wrestling, whatever gym, and see how the drills are made. You tap several times in a single day.

Then go and check what is done in any striking sport: there is no tapping.

that's the whole point.

If you don't get why I mocked the "tapping to strikes", I can't help you out, you're just being naive.

I've done judo for decades, and I agree, tapping is common there.

Which is exactly my point - if tapping is a weakness, then tapping regularly (ie in every practice) is weaker than only tapping under dire circumstances. This is just a psychological fact, its true for overeating, for smoking, for every bad habit out there. Which must then include tapping since you see that as a sign of mental weakness.

Which is why I say tapping to chokes and locks is worse - and you're medically naive to think otherwise, as well as being psychologically naive if you don't think regularly engaging in a weak behavior (regular tapping) generates greater mental weakness than occasional engagement in a weak behavior.

I think as soon as you decide that tapping is mentally weak there's no way to avoid the conclusion that tapping to chokes (especially) and locks is weaker than tapping to strikes. Arguing that because you tap regularly in grappling only makes it worse, as you're saying the weak behavior is ingrained even deeper than in striking, where tapping is less common (though I boxed some, and in my experience if someone starts to go full out against a competitive boxer their partner tells them to F-off and leaves the ring (ie verbal tap) because if you've got tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars riding on the upcoming fight, the last thing you want is a concussion or cut in training camp.

Its so commonplace that it was even part of the original Rocky movie, where Rocky (when he thinks he's being hired as a sparring partner for the champ) promises he doesn't take cheap shots, meaning he doesn't try to KO his opponent as a sparring partner.

There's just no way to make tapping to chokes and locks less mentally weak than tapping to strikes, at least without denying current medical science says head damage has worse long term consequences.

 

[NotSoSure]

I've done judo for decades, and I agree, tapping is common there.

Which is exactly my point - if tapping is a weakness, then tapping regularly (ie in every practice) is weaker than only tapping under dire circumstances. This is just a psychological fact, its true for overeating, for smoking, for every bad habit out there. Which must then include tapping since you see that as a sign of mental weakness.

Which is why I say tapping to chokes and locks is worse - and you're medically naive to think otherwise, as well as being psychologically naive if you don't think regularly engaging in a weak behavior (regular tapping) generates greater mental weakness than occasional engagement in a weak behavior.

I think as soon as you decide that tapping is mentally weak there's no way to avoid the conclusion that tapping to chokes (especially) and locks is weaker than tapping to strikes. Arguing that because you tap regularly in grappling only makes it worse, as you're saying the weak behavior is ingrained even deeper than in striking, where tapping is less common (though I boxed some, and in my experience if someone starts to go full out against a competitive boxer their partner tells them to F-off and leaves the ring (ie verbal tap) because if you've got tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars riding on the upcoming fight, the last thing you want is a concussion or cut in training camp.

Its so commonplace that it was even part of the original Rocky movie, where Rocky (when he thinks he's being hired as a sparring partner for the champ) promises he doesn't take cheap shots, meaning he doesn't try to KO his opponent as a sparring partner.

There's just no way to make tapping to chokes and locks less mentally weak than tapping to strikes, at least without denying current medical science says head damage has worse long term consequences.

If we are serious about brain damage, we ban football and boxing before touching MMA.

The confusion is that, among MMA practitioners, up to now, there has been this paradigm that it's natural to tap to a submission, because that's how grappling drills and competitions unfold. But striking sports do not end in tapping: hence the oddity of "tapping to strikes". It's also not obvious: if you're in the receiving end of a bad beating, you might not be in your best judgment or even capable to tap: that's where the referee needs to be extremely attentive.

You have to take into account that the "striking" disciplines simply don't have a good version of tapping: that's why this generates a debate that is, frankly, silly. The way boxing works it to maximize impact to the head: if we really care about brain damage, we shouldn't allow people to enter that game.

There is nothing wrong in tapping to strikes, but the referee cannot count on that to determine a stoppage. The guy on the receiving end might have lost his best judgement already, or be trying to be too tough for his own health. Oddly, fighters tend to admit defeat when submitted and tap: I argue that it's simply the culture of grappling sports that is well-accepted in MMA.

that's all.

 

[Darbo]

it is the same situation now. Sure its more rare but in the instances where guys have tapped now its because the ref is not stopping it until the guy goes out and is instead allowing the beating to continue uncontested.

Yeah but that's inept refereeing, it used to be a rule that the ref doesn't interfere until you tap.

 

[MikeMcMann]

What do you know about me to say that? Do you know what I've seen, how people close to me have died?

The point was that young fighters do take it lightly, because they don't see the immediate effect.

I know all I need to know about you based on your posts here and based on how many people are calling you and ridiculing you.

That you think 'practicing' to quit to a choke, as someone above pointed out to you is somehow braver than reacting to being beaten to a head trauma injury shows how incredibly dumb you are.

Yes everyone knows over the last 15 years or so the danger of head trauma and the long term impact of too many punches to the head. You will hear so many fighters bring it up now, hockey players, football players etc.

That you still TODAY, in this day and age equate braveness with a willingness to just eat punches until you go unconscious because you think somehow living to fight another day and trying to minimize brain damage is not manly is the worst kind of stupid.

 

[MikeMcMann]

Join a Judo, Jiu Jitsu, wrestling, whatever gym, and see how the drills are made. You tap several times in a single day.

Then go and check what is done in any striking sport: there is no tapping.

that's the whole point.

If you don't get why I mocked the "tapping to strikes", I can't help you out, you're just being naive.

You seem to not understand boxing or most striking sport sparring.

No one in sparring in boxing (or any striking sport that I can think of) is just eating the type of career ending shots over and over like can happen in MMA because you are automatically given a break after ever knock down. You can then let your sparring partner you need a moment or tell him you are done.

In MMA you are not given any break. The guy pounces on you and will punch away forever if you are to tough and don't go unconscious and the ref does not stop as he should.

So you cannot treat this situations as if they are equal.

 

[cevo]

For those who thinks that tapping to strikes are for cowards:

Why tap to anything at all? If someone breaks your arm or puts you to sleep, you will recover fully from that. The brain never recovers from too much punches to the head.

 

[NotSoSure]

You seem to not understand boxing or most striking sport sparring.

No one in sparring in boxing (or any striking sport that I can think of) is just eating the type of career ending shots over and over like can happen in MMA because you are automatically given a break after ever knock down. You can then let your sparring partner you need a moment or tell him you are done.

In MMA you are not given any break. The guy pounces on you and will punch away forever if you are to tough and don't go unconscious and the ref does not stop as he should.

So you cannot treat this situations as if they are equal.

I never said that. It's impossible to argue with someone who makes up things I never alluded to.

You can have a monologue, it's better use of time.

 

[NotSoSure]

I know all I need to know about you based on your posts here and based on how many people are calling you and ridiculing you.

That you think 'practicing' to quit to a choke, as someone above pointed out to you is somehow braver than reacting to being beaten to a head trauma injury shows how incredibly dumb you are.

Yes everyone knows over the last 15 years or so the danger of head trauma and the long term impact of too many punches to the head. You will hear so many fighters bring it up now, hockey players, football players etc.

That you still TODAY, in this day and age equate braveness with a willingness to just eat punches until you go unconscious because you think somehow living to fight another day and trying to minimize brain damage is not manly is the worst kind of stupid.

nobody is ridiculing me dumbass. You're an arrogant cunt who doesn't bother to understand what the other person means, and you're clearly triggered.

 

[MikeMcMann]

If we are serious about brain damage, we ban football and boxing before touching MMA.

The confusion is that, among MMA practitioners, up to now, there has been this paradigm that it's natural to tap to a submission, because that's how grappling drills and competitions unfold. But striking sports do not end in tapping: hence the oddity of "tapping to strikes". It's also not obvious: if you're in the receiving end of a bad beating, you might not be in your best judgment or even capable to tap: that's where the referee needs to be extremely attentive.

You have to take into account that the "striking" disciplines simply don't have a good version of tapping: that's why this generates a debate that is, frankly, silly. The way boxing works it to maximize impact to the head: if we really care about brain damage, we shouldn't allow people to enter that game.

There is nothing wrong in tapping to strikes, but the referee cannot count on that to determine a stoppage. The guy on the receiving end might have lost his best judgement already, or be trying to be too tough for his own health. Oddly, fighters tend to admit defeat when submitted and tap: I argue that it's simply the culture of grappling sports that is well-accepted in MMA.

that's all.

No one is trying to ban football or boxing as these are adults choosing the sports, knowing the risks. Just like with MMA.

What they are trying to do EVERYWHERE is raise awareness and get fighters to not take unnecessary risks or damage. This is common across all contact sports now including MMA. They are educating the athletes to the risks and showing them other athletes with severe brain damage as an example.

That a tard like you still, IN THIS DAY AND AGE, thinks a fighter should just eat unnecessary punches to the head ignoring his future health and shortening his fighting career by damaging his 'chin' is a relic of a stupid idea that most people have got over but a few stupid ones still bring up.

NO FIGHTER, none, should willfully eat more shots to the head once he knows he is done and can no longer defend himself. Especially not in any attempt to prove to tards like you that he is your kind of manly.