Penn overrated?

[yekmurat]

Until his 1st fight against Edgar he was considered one of the best p4p and he deserved that but after frankie fight he went down...

 

[Mma Adiction]

He was a huge fighter? yes. now, he deserves a shot with frankie? absolutelt not.
He is now overrated, he's not even a top 10 now

 

[warriorfan808]

BJ Penn isn't overrated. At the time, he was the best at LW and was rated accordingly. Looking now, it doesn't look like he is ranked on anyone's top 10 rankings or in any other ranking structure, so I don't see how he is overrated. He's an exciting fighter that is very well skilled and was one of the pound for pound best when he was in his prime. He will always be remembered as a Fighter that actually tested himself. He was a former WW and LW Champion and is very small compared to guys in both divisions now. He won the BJJ Championships at 147 pounds. I think that 145 will be a nice weight class for him and I look forward to seeing some exciting fights.

 

[ImPitPatPuncher]

*sigh*

here we go again

Jens Pulver who you discredit was a former UFC champion and he choked out Cub Swanson in 30 seconds.
Matt Serra is underrated and he tko'd GSP, no matter how you try to discredit it. The impossible happened.
defeated another lightweight goat Takanori Gomi
and even managed to beat a prime Matt Hughes who was unstoppable in the UFC with wins over legends and very good MMA veterans like Matt Serra, Hayato Sakurai, Carlos Newton and Sean Sherk and later even GSP.
Fought Duane Ludwig who is a ww and now the secret weapon of team Alpha Male
Fought gracies and defeated them too
BJ even went YOLO and fought Lyoto Machida at heavyweight technically.
Joe Stevenson was a former TUF 2 winner and a legit badass grappler and BJ took his soul.
Sean Sherk is another forgotten badass and former UFC champion who is so criminally underrated that it isn't even funny. Only lost to UFC champions and to no one else.
BJ even had a close fight with GSP which is also a rare feat.
Defeated Kenny Florian who is by some called the best UFC fighter to never win a title.
Gave a perfect peformance against Diego Sanchez and even finished him with a nasty cut and came the closest to finishing him with strikes.

Fought everyone, but his career gets overshadowed by his ww stint
BJ is in no way overrated. Do you know how hard it is to become a UFC champion in 2 weight divisions?

This is almost fighter bashing imo

BJ is actually one of the best wins imo on GSP's record

 

[MMA-Aficionado]

If anything Penn is under-rated.

He's fought in 4 weight classes, going on 5, has owned championship belts in two of those divisions competing against the highest level of competition in the sport. He's 12 years into the sport and still going strong, and the dude has the biggest heart of any MMA fighter. He's one of the few fighters out there that can talk the talk and walk the walk, Just Scrap is his motto and through his actions, it's evident he lives by it.

Agree he has amazing heart. But he has won twice against Hughes in all his fights at WW and above. Definite warrior for not caring about size, but that is different from winning at higher weight classes. Example - A Silva: has gone up 3 times for 3 dominating wins. 100% win ratio. Penn has gone WW or above 10 times I think, for about 2 wins. 20% win ratio - see the difference?

 

[Street Level]

Look at his resume and tell me exactly who has fought a nastier list of opponents. I'll wait. Penn is and was the man and literally has been fighting the "who's who" of MMA since before he went bald.

 

[MCS]

OP left out 3/4 of his biggest wins, which are Hughes 1, Gomi and Uno 1. That, and he fought open-weight against Gracies and gave Hughes, Lyoto and GSP close fights. Plus beat Din Thomas when he was top 3 in the world, and thus the p4p talks went on with him for a decade.

That's why he was a legend before he even fought Joe Daddy.

 

[MMA-Aficionado]

Probably the part where he completely dominated Takanori Gomi when Gomi was considered the #1 LW in the world, at the time.

Is this not common knowledge?

yeah the Gomi fight was impressive but I don't need to list every fight to make my point and I don't think the Gomi fight changes my point.

Penn is a great fighter but thought of as even greater then he was at his best , hence overrated.

 

[MMA-Aficionado]

To be honest this is the same case for most stars of 5 years ago. The sport is constantly evolving and the level of fighter is rapidly improving, therefore the guys on top before don't seem so impressive against todays fighters (Tito - Jones, Sylvia - Velasquez etc)

For his time Penn was the very best at 155 and then with Edgar, time caught up with him, his style was figured out and he stopped evolving with the sport. Happens to everyone if their chin hasn't given out first.

People saying he'll win the 145 title are delusional, but people who say he's overrated are also delusional.

People always say that - but GSP is still winning, A Silva is still winning, Fedor won 30 fights in a row. Being among the absolute best requires longevity across eras -continuing to evolve and beat the best. And Penn couldnt do that.

 

[Jet40]

BJ Penn isn't overrated. At the time, he was the best at LW and was rated accordingly. Looking now, it doesn't look like he is ranked on anyone's top 10 rankings or in any other ranking structure, so I don't see how he is overrated. He's an exciting fighter that is very well skilled and was one of the pound for pound best when he was in his prime. He will always be remembered as a Fighter that actually tested himself. He was a former WW and LW Champion and is very small compared to guys in both divisions now. He won the BJJ Championships at 147 pounds. I think that 145 will be a nice weight class for him and I look forward to seeing some exciting fights.

I agree with a lot of your post.
I disagree with him being a 'very small' LW. Keep in mind he lost to two fighters at LW that were smaller as proved by them actually fighting at 145.
The guys that do the rankings may not overrate him but a lot of his fans do. While that can be said for a lot of top fighters, some BJ fans seem to be a bit delusional.

 

[LamaIronFist]

Penn is very talented but the crowd caught up with him. The top ten guys at 155 and 170 have answers for everything BJ brings to the table.

BJ has a chance against a few guys for a round max. He has no stamina. He should have word his cardio a bit more.

That being said he will be an Hall of Famer one day but he is not as great as he thinks. For example, he never was in the league of Aldo, Silva and GSP though he was gutsy at times and had flashes of brilliance.

 

[Glen S]

he beat prime hughes and gsp when gsp was still a fighter

Penn never beat GSP....I see what you did there...Fail

 

[ImPitPatPuncher]

Agree he has amazing heart. But he has won twice against Hughes in all his fights at WW and above. Definite warrior for not caring about size, but that is different from winning at higher weight classes. Example - A Silva: has gone up 3 times for 3 dominating wins. 100% win ratio. Penn has gone WW or above 10 times I think, for about 2 wins. 20% win ratio - see the difference?

You can't compare Anderson Silva's lhw stint to that of BJ's at ww.
James Irvin and Stephan Bonnar were nowhere near top 10.

Forrest Griffin although he just lost the title before facing Anderson, was the perfect match up for him but he still gets credit for that win imo.
But we wouldn't know what would happen in Anderson stayed at lhw to face some more top 5 fighters.

At least when BJ went up he defeated a PRIME Matt Hughes who was a champion

that's like Anderson going up to defeat Jones with ease if you want to compare it

 

[Jet40]

Look at his resume and tell me exactly who has fought a nastier list of opponents. I'll wait. Penn is and was the man and literally has been fighting the "who's who" of MMA since before he went bald.

GSP, and he actually won most of his fights.

 

[HereticBD]

He's not overrated, he's just washed up.

When he was great, he was great. It's time to hang 'em up though.

 

[Jet40]

You can't compare Anderson Silva's lhw stint to that of BJ's at ww.
James Irvin and Stephan Bonnar were nowhere near top 10.

Forrest Griffin although he just lost the title before facing Anderson, was the perfect match up for him but he still gets credit for that win imo.
But we wouldn't know what would happen in Anderson stayed at lhw to face some more top 5 fighters.

I do agree with this.
While I think some BJ fans vastly overrate him what Penn did to Hughes deserves a lot of respect.

 

[xelad1]

This will drive the Penn nuthuggers crazy.

I do not question his warrior heart (amazing warrior, no fear and tough as nails).

And very skilled too - a highly dangerous first round fighter in particular.

But who has he really beaten? Even at LW when he was dominating he was beating Jenns Pulver (a natural fw), Joe daddy (mid-level), Sherk, sanchez and florian.

Impressive but I do not see him doing the same, even in his absolute prime, against the frankie edgars (who of course beat him twice while in his prime), benson hendersons, anthony pettises etc of the LW division. Penn was dominating a lesser breed, less skilled/talented bunch of fighters compared to the LWs of today.

overall he is 16-9 I think, although he is better than that record and a hall of famer but not among the truly great fighters IMO. That is, he is no GSP, A Silva, Fedor or J Jones.

Discuss rationally, or whine about it - up to you.

Nuthugger or not I don't see how you can expect people not to think this is a troll thread when you don't mention wins over Takanori Gomi and Matt Hughes.

Not to mention GSP 1 and Edgar 1 which many people thought he won.

Prime/Motivated/No Kids BJ vs today's field? I don't know, I think the current field has passed him by in skillset, that much is obvious. As far as talent who knows, I have a hard time thinking you don't put a young BJ in any era of MMA and he wouldn't adapt well and be a top fighter (albeit still with cardio issues).

 

[Street Level]

*sigh*

here we go again

Jens Pulver who you discredit was a former UFC champion and he choked out Cub Swanson in 30 seconds.
Matt Serra is underrated and he tko'd GSP, no matter how you try to discredit it. The impossible happened.
defeated another lightweight goat Takanori Gomi
and even managed to beat a prime Matt Hughes who was unstoppable in the UFC with wins over legends and very good MMA veterans like Matt Serra, Hayato Sakurai, Carlos Newton and Sean Sherk and later even GSP.
Fought Duane Ludwig who is a ww and now the secret weapon of team Alpha Male
Fought gracies and defeated them too
BJ even went YOLO and fought Lyoto Machida at heavyweight technically.
Joe Stevenson was a former TUF 2 winner and a legit badass grappler and BJ took his soul.
Sean Sherk is another forgotten badass and former UFC champion who is so criminally underrated that it isn't even funny. Only lost to UFC champions and to no one else.
BJ even had a close fight with GSP which is also a rare feat.
Defeated Kenny Florian who is by some called the best UFC fighter to never win a title.
Gave a perfect peformance against Diego Sanchez and even finished him with a nasty cut and came the closest to finishing him with strikes.

Fought everyone, but his career gets overshadowed by his ww stint
BJ is in no way overrated. Do you know how hard it is to become a UFC champion in 2 weight divisions?

This is almost fighter bashing imo

BJ is actually one of the best wins imo on GSP's record

You win.

 

[ImPitPatPuncher]

I've already posted in here but watch this video and tell me how BJ is overrated



again, his ww stint overshadows his career and what he really did.
At lightweight he was a monster.

A monster that even had succes against the previous ww goat Matt Hughes and got a close fight against arguably the MMA goat and imo UFC GOAT GSP.

I'm not even a huge BJ fan but this is pure disrespect

 

[FSUbulldog]

He didn't beat GSP, ever.

If you think he won the 1st fight, we can thank the MMA GODS that you will never be a judge because no matter how you try to spin it, he didn't win the 2nd or 3rd round.

Preach the truth right there.