PED expert talks about how easy it is to beat drug tests

[Eater of Souls]

Because they're limited by funding and what people consider reasonable invasion of privacy. They aren't going to get the funding to test athletes daily, at any time of day, nor is anyone going to put up with that.

Far from the only reasons. If they were actually science based, instead of run by lawyers, things would be different. And I do not just mean success ratios. Consistency would be the first instance. Not just with respect to punitive measures, but the lack of consistency in what constitutes performance-enhancing substances. If they struck the substances that are not actually performance enhancing, they could do a far more comprehensive job dealing with the remaining substances.

When contacted by various researches about things such as the threshold levels for THC, and how no study has been done as to what acceptable levels are when athletes are cutting, no answer is ever given because the standard is wholly arbitrary. (I use this as an example because it is fairly simple to show that athletes who engage in extreme weight cutting and dehydration will release additional THC metabolites that will cause artificially high levels when tested. Increased levels of ACTH will do the same. And there is zero evidence to support the levels currently used by USADA).

Until someone calls them on their bullshit (again) athletes are going to continue to be treated unfairly. But everyone talks to lawyers, not scientists, so USADA gets to continue to do a shitty job. With zero accountability.

 

[Eater of Souls]

How do you quantify this?

Various surveys and longitudinal studies have been done. While not ideal, they give us the best information we have. In some cases, nearly 50% of athletes have admitted to using banned substances. And while this is not accurate (obviously) if anything, the data is skewed in favor of USADA (or WADA). More athletes will use than will admit to use. So compare the numbers we have via survey with the percent caught and you get a very sloppy idea, but the only one we have.

Say they catch about 2% of the athletes at an event, yet 50% admit to use. Now, some will have cleaned out and not been tested, etc., but really their methods just display nothing other than shitty results.

 

[Pacemaker Joe]

Far from the only reasons. If they were actually science based, instead of run by lawyers, things would be different. And I do not just mean success ratios. Consistency would be the first instance. Not just with respect to punitive measures, but the lack of consistency in what constitutes performance-enhancing substances. If they struck the substances that are not actually performance enhancing, they could do a far more comprehensive job dealing with the remaining substances.

When contacted by various researches about things such as the threshold levels for THC, and how no study has been done as to what acceptable levels are when athletes are cutting, no answer is ever given because the standard is wholly arbitrary. (I use this as an example because it is fairly simple to show that athletes who engage in extreme weight cutting and dehydration will release additional THC metabolites that will cause artificially high levels when tested. Increased levels of ACTH will do the same. And there is zero evidence to support the levels currently used by USADA).

Until someone calls them on their bullshit (again) athletes are going to continue to be treated unfairly. But everyone talks to lawyers, not scientists, so USADA gets to continue to do a shitty job. With zero accountability.

You're confusing USADA with WADA. USADA doesn't set the prohibited list. They may have input on it, but that's it.

 

[Eater of Souls]

You're confusing USADA with WADA. USADA doesn't set the prohibited list. They may have input on it, but that's it.

My post was sloppy, sorry for that. Was going to write about oversight bullshit and was doing two things at once. Probably fucked the other one up as well. Both agencies suck, though.

 

[Pacemaker Joe]

My post was sloppy, sorry for that. Was going to write about oversight bullshit and was doing two things at once. Probably fucked the other one up as well. Both agencies suck, though.

I mean, if your position is that the WADA list has some fucked up things in it, I'm not arguing against that at all. THC probably shouldn't be there. 7-keto is miscatagorized. Many drugs likely have such a mild effect that it's not worth taking them anyway. Meldonium was placed on the list too quickly, without having excretion studies done. etc. etc. Some of that is political bullshit, where substance x is illegal, so it's on the prohibited list, but it's inconsistently done. Weed is on there and probably shouldn't be, coke is on there as a stimulant along with meth, and should be, opiates are and should be with a threshold. But there are a ton of illegal drugs that aren't. And yes, the lack of weight cutting in most sports means that any threshold substances, as well as anything on the in-competition list could fuck over fighters, wrestlers, boxers, etc that wouldn't cause a positive in other sports.

USADA has transparency problems, where some other NADOs issue reasoned decisions for every suspension, USADA only does it if they go to arbitration. Publishing missed tests, not just 3x whereabouts suspensions would help too. There are other problems too, but none of them are isolated to USADA. Jamaica did virtually no drug testing of its sprinters for a long time. But whether they could do more, or significantly better... their efforts are strictly limited by funding. It's not as if they have 100 million in funding, but are only doing 10 million worth of tests. There simply isn't enough political push to fund NADOs to a sufficient level to catch a majority of users.

 

[Eater of Souls]

I mean, if your position is that the WADA list has some fucked up things in it, I'm not arguing against that at all. THC probably shouldn't be there. 7-keto is miscatagorized. Many drugs likely have such a mild effect that it's not worth taking them anyway. Meldonium was placed on the list too quickly, without having excretion studies done. etc. etc. Some of that is political bullshit, where substance x is illegal, so it's on the prohibited list, but it's inconsistently done. Weed is on there and probably shouldn't be, coke is on there as a stimulant along with meth, and should be, opiates are and should be with a threshold. But there are a ton of illegal drugs that aren't. And yes, the lack of weight cutting in most sports means that any threshold substances, as well as anything on the in-competition list could fuck over fighters, wrestlers, boxers, etc that wouldn't cause a positive in other sports.

USADA has transparency problems, where some other NADOs issue reasoned decisions for every suspension, USADA only does it if they go to arbitration. Publishing missed tests, not just 3x whereabouts suspensions would help too. There are other problems too, but none of them are isolated to USADA. Jamaica did virtually no drug testing of its sprinters for a long time. But whether they could do more, or significantly better... their efforts are strictly limited by funding. It's not as if they have 100 million in funding, but are only doing 10 million worth of tests. There simply isn't enough political push to fund NADOs to a sufficient level to catch a majority of users.

Agree on pretty much everything. But I also think that the lack of trained professionals is one of the biggest problems. Sure, funding as well. Really, there are a great many reasons why they all do a bad job.

 

[tbaumann]

Various surveys and longitudinal studies have been done. While not ideal, they give us the best information we have. In some cases, nearly 50% of athletes have admitted to using banned substances. And while this is not accurate (obviously) if anything, the data is skewed in favor of USADA (or WADA). More athletes will use than will admit to use. So compare the numbers we have via survey with the percent caught and you get a very sloppy idea, but the only one we have.

Say they catch about 2% of the athletes at an event, yet 50% admit to use. Now, some will have cleaned out and not been tested, etc., but really their methods just display nothing other than shitty results.

I’m impressed with your response...

However, I would wager that the data you are using was collected well before usada had been fully implemented. Keep in mind that the usada rollout was done in phases, where the testing frequency, and degree of scrutiny was ramped up overtime. They are now using biological passports which track a broad range of hormone levels and markers for every athlete in the testing pool. The more they test you, the more they know about your biological makeup. Finally, they are testing for a broad range of substances (pct drugs, making agents, etc) that were previously skipped. Even a year ago, usada testing wasn’t half what it is today.

Serious question, do you use or have a strong knowledge of steroids and other performance-enhancing drugs? Kind of a loaded question, but what I’m getting at is that steroids typically need to be taken at pretty high levels, and for a good periods of time in order to gain significant competitive advantage. When you have taken them and felt the difference in the context of mma training and fighting, the picture become clearer. It’s not like you can sneak off for a few days to an undisclosed location, blast some short acting peds, and come back a different person. The one exception is GH ( and perhaps epo) which is difficult to detect.

 

[SPB]

We blame PRIDE but pre USADA pretty much everyone was juicing in the UFC too.

They still are.

 

[tbaumann]

I mean, if your position is that the WADA list has some fucked up things in it, I'm not arguing against that at all. THC probably shouldn't be there. 7-keto is miscatagorized. Many drugs likely have such a mild effect that it's not worth taking them anyway. Meldonium was placed on the list too quickly, without having excretion studies done. etc. etc.

Great point ostarine, dhea, medonium, and the peptides are not going to do shit for a high level competition athlete, and nearly anyone with experience would never consider them to be worth the risk while in the usada testing pool. For example, people call Yoel Romero a cheater... that may be true, but he didn’t get his freak physique and stamina from Ibutamoren, LOL.

 

[Dontfight]

Conte is correct. Hiding under the cage worked for Jones one time

 

[SPB]

Yea, it's like what the IRA said to Thatcher. Athletes who are using have to be lucky all the time, USADA only has to be lucky once. No, I'm not suggesting USADA is a terrorist organization.

They are Freedom Fighters.

 

[USAwrestling532]

I always thought this, if you're constantly on the move, or go hiking in the mountains or some shit.
They're not going to get you

Or you can lock yourself in your panic room and call the cops when USADA shows up at your front door. Kinda like Serena Williams did.

 

[SSgt Dickweed]

Or you can lock yourself in your panic room and call the cops when USADA shows up at your front door. Kinda like Serena Williams did.

All natty brah.

 

[Alxair]

Doping apparently is really easy(if we take this guys and some other guys word for it) yet some guys still fuck up and get caught. Really makes you think about the fighters that fail tests.

 

[bully4me]

According to him, there is a 25 to 1 chance any athlete under USADA will not even be tested at any given week. And all that athlete needs to do is move to a different city to continue doping. Two missed tests are subject to a mere penalty, the 3rd missed test will be considered a positive test. If an athlete has two missed tests (and presumably has been tested after without failing), they will be nullified after 18 months.



Victor Conte - president of Bay Area Laboratory Co-operative (BALCO), a sports nutrition center in California. He served time in prison in 2005 after pleading guilty to conspiracy to distribute steroids and money laundering. Conte played a role in tarnishing professional sports with his distribution of illegal performance enhancing drugs. He currently operates Scientific Nutrition for Advanced Conditioning (SNAC Nutrition).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Conte

He has been on Rogan's podcast before and his arrest was masterminded by "The Golden Snitch" Jeff Novitsky - currently the VP of Athlete Health and Performance of the UFC.

Spoiler

He was also a former bassist of Tower of Power.

Spoiler

Ok so that's one man's opinion WHO was CAUGHT!! If it was so easy why did he get prison time ?

He isn't talking about beating tests ,he's talking about avoiding them. Big difference!!

One thing is the UFC states ( and fighters protested it at the time) is a fighter MUST report where they are if away for more than 24 hours and where they will be. That alone has to drastically reduce what he's implying. Also the UFC as we've seen will find out where the fighter is and go to them. The process isn't exactly the same as regular USADA with guys out there on a fighters take. This is written right into a fighters contract.

Also is this guy giving his thoughts on when he was into this cheating when he was nabbed or is that with today's standards? Is what he's talking about a generalization of all testdd sport or directly the UFC program the way it's run now?

I ask since these are all relevant questions

 

[SSgt Dickweed]

Bump


This is the same dude that speculated on Costa and Izzy. He's basically saying WADA is BS. USADA is better but still questionable.

 

[thehighking]

I know nothing about beating drug tests only a little about drugs. From what I understand injectable long estered testosterone should be the base of every cycle and on then you use orals if you want on top of that.

So because long lasting testosterone is detectable for a long time, do Olympic athletes only use orals?

Short ester testosterone is the same just needs to be injected more often. Leaves the body within 2 days. Test is easy to cheat, PCT is more risky thus Adesanya's gyno.

 

[Maripucci]

Is gyno the cauliflower ear of striking?

 

[UsernameLOL]

Is gyno the cauliflower ear of striking?

cauliflower nip is born.

 

[mudrubble]

According to him, there is a 25 to 1 chance any athlete under USADA will not even be tested at any given week. And all that athlete needs to do is move to a different city to continue doping. Two missed tests are subject to a mere penalty, the 3rd missed test will be considered a positive test. If an athlete has two missed tests (and presumably has been tested after without failing), they will be nullified after 18 months.



Victor Conte - president of Bay Area Laboratory Co-operative (BALCO), a sports nutrition center in California. He served time in prison in 2005 after pleading guilty to conspiracy to distribute steroids and money laundering. Conte played a role in tarnishing professional sports with his distribution of illegal performance enhancing drugs. He currently operates Scientific Nutrition for Advanced Conditioning (SNAC Nutrition).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Conte

He has been on Rogan's podcast before and his arrest was masterminded by "The Golden Snitch" Jeff Novitsky - currently the VP of Athlete Health and Performance of the UFC.

Spoiler

He was also a former bassist of Tower of Power.

Spoiler

When you say "miss two tests and you'll be nullified for 18 months" does this mean that if they miss two tests they can't compete for 18 months? They are essentially suspended?

And then a third test means they're considered positive and can't compete for 24 months instead of 18?

From this it appears that they can only really miss one test and compete, right?

So if I missed a test today, how long would I need to get the stuff out of my system before my next test? Like if I moved to a new city and missed a test and they email me and say I have to be tested next week in this new city, I can't do anything but get tested in a week, no? Wouldn't I still be popped the next week? How long does it take for most PEDs to exit your system?