Paulo Miyao caught by USADA

[Dogstarman]

Do you think Lavato is on PED? Just curious .

The guy looks like he is. I mean did you see his last MMA fight? It's really hard to look like that even with good genetics. I mean I think the guy is a beast regardless if he uses or not but take one look at him.

Maybe I'm wrong and a hater and you can do that naturally. I don't hate Lavato though.

 

[Balto]

It's not a false line of thinking. Do you think this is the first time Paulo has ever used PED's? He won worlds in 2015 too when they tested, and to my knowledge didn't look any different compared to 2016 where he got caught.

A reasonable conclusion is that people underestimate time to cycle markers out of their system, or think what they are on is undetectable. Or, "tainted supplements", I guess.

Well what you just stated (people are underestimating the time) directly contradicts what was predicted when this testing was announced (no one will ever fail because you'd have to be a moron to underestimate the time knowing in advance).

I agree with you that I doubt it's the first time for Paulo, and I'm sure lots of guys who use are beating the test by timing things right. But that's different than "this testing is all just for show and no one will ever fail." Which is what people were saying before the first test. Then Gabi failed and people were like "Oh okay well obviously Gabi. But no one else will ever fail." Then more guys failed year after year, and people just stopped saying that.

They only test the adult black belt winners once per year. That's something like 15 people including the women. And 1-2 seem to be failing every year. That is a way, way higher fail rate than originally predicted.

I'm not saying that means everyone else who passes is necessarily clean. I'm just saying the conventional forum wisdom on PEDs here was 100% wrong in reality about the testing. There are way more people failing than ever predicted.

 

[Balto]

GSP and Tim Kennedy where complaining about the lack of steroid testing in the UFC.
They both take steroids even when not preparing for fight just for fun and the look.

That's a much different scenario than Caio who claims he doesn't use period. He's claimed this and still claims this to my knowledge.

Caio's stand caused friction with a lot of people too. So he didn't really gain personally from it. It probably cost more support than it gained overall.

So how come the only reasonable conclusion is that the guy is lying? Based on nothing more than the fact he competes and in contradiction with other facts.

I'm not saying steroid use isn't common in BJJ. It's definitely common. Even rampant.

But rampant is not the same as everyone using. And there are notable guys out there that are probably clean. Of course we can't know for sure but how could they even prove it for sure? Even random USADA tests we say that the guys are using but they just know how to beat them. So we never accept that as proof.

I also get why we don't clean tests as proof. They are for sure beatable. But we really leave just about zero room for any guy to be credibly clean then. Seems kind of messed up for the guys who actually are.

 

[Daveb]

I was talking to a multiple times world medalist at Pans this year. He asked if I take anything. I responded no. He said not taking Roids is cheating, it's cheating yourself. I thought that was a good line

 

[yetanother]

That's a much different scenario than Caio who claims he doesn't use period. He's claimed this and still claims this to my knowledge.

Caio not taking steroids is believable. There are girls bigger then he is.

 

[Balto]

Caio not taking steroids is believable. There are girls bigger then he is.

It seems to be tough to tell just by size. Paulo was a pretty small dude too but obviously was using.

Of course I think it's a pretty reasonable belief that Caio is clean though for the other reasons I gave above.

Then it follows that if Caio is clean, it's really not "everyone" who is using. Because there just aren't that many BB World Champs active to begin with. And there are a few more BB World Champs who also frequently come up as "the only clean ones" in discussions. If we can think of 3 BB World Champs out of a group of say 30 recent ones, that's 10%. I'd call that a significant minority and a refutation of the idea that everyone is using. Seems like a chunk aren't.

Once you move beyond Adult BB World Champs to broader groups of IBJJF black belt competitors, it seems like the percentage not using gets higher. If I recall correctly, Daveb is a black belt in Masters right? I'm also a black belt in Masters 1 at the IBJJF. The bullpen at that age group is pretty friendly, and a lot of people talk with each other. PED usage definitely comes up from time to time, and guys sure seem to be honest and open about it. No one is judging but a lot of guys say they don't use for whatever reason. And a lot of guys say they do use. End of the day no one is testing and no one seems to fault the users particularly. So I don't really see the incentive to lie in those circumstances.

A lot of guys I know who don't use chose that because they talked to a doctor about it. And the doctor gave them an honest run down of the pros and cons. The benefits are obvious. But the cons tend to be that the doctor will tell you have to be prepared to stay on indefinitely for the rest of your life because once you start, it will change your natural production. Maybe you won't need to, but you need to be prepared for the possibility. And considering the expense and long time horizon, that is enough to put off a chunk of guys.

 

[LeonardoBjj]

Well on the plus side at least he admitted it and did not use some lame excuse i.e. Dick Pills, Tainted Supplements, etc.

- I don't blame the athletes for using those excuses. I get more surprised at the no sentient beings that believe Lebron James or Romero don't take ped's because they are "strictly" tested.
Serious how stupid can those dumbasses be?

They're more stupid than a flat earth.

 

[LeonardoBjj]

[QUOTE="Balto, post: 129708709, member: 45116"Trust me I'm aware.

I also really think those guys are clean regardless. Ask around if you have mutual friends. It all points to clean.

Is there even a way for a guy to be credibly clean anymore? Sometimes I wonder. How are they going to prove a negative? It's like a no win situation.

If they pass scheduled tests at the Worlds, we say oh well of course they could with advance knowledge. If they would pass random tests like in the UFC, we just say oh well they have good enough doctors to beat the random tests (just like we say about UFC fighters).

So we say the tests mean nothing. Okay. I guess then we can ask the guys who train with them day in and day out. And for some of those guys, it still comes back that they don't use. So then it's like everyone is just lying to us all the time (seems like a tough conspiracy to keep together), the competitors themselves just weave elaborate lies to their close training partners (seems like sociopath behavior given the fact that most of BJJ probably doesn't even really care), or maybe (just maybe) a chunk of guys are actually clean?

I mean even including Brazilians, Caio Terra has made a big public stand over this in the past. Is he using too? Is he just some sort of psycho who felt the need to grandstand over total lies? Or maybe, just maybe, there's a solid chance Caio is actually clean?

Sure seems like the last option makes the most sense given the information available to me. Call me naive I guess. But that's the best I can tell from a factual basis. And I don't see any facts to back up him using other than too cool for school jaded forum attitude that "everyone must be using."

And I can think of at least half a dozen competitive American BBs that fit into the same category.[/QUOTE]

- I usually think you're a cool guy with a awesome scree-name.
But please don't spend your hard earned money, buying whey-protein from those friend's of your's, they're taking advantage of your innocence.

 

[Balto]

It's not even worth trying to argue. No one will ever bother trying to refute any actual points brought up. It all just comes back to "come on every single person out there is using quit being naive". It's the most dogmatic issue up for discussion in BJJ.

I remember back when everyone was saying that the IBJJF tests were going to be passed 99% of the time just because you'd have to be so dumb not to pass given the way the tests were being conducted. Then people started failing and I pointed out that, using statistics and the actual sample we have so far, it is probably a lot lower than 99% pass rate just from confidence intervals and standard deviation.

Response to that was pretty much shut up nerd, everyone is using, etc.

Just no point even trying in the face of that.

 

[Human Bass]

Kinda funny that the small guy who uses a small guy game getting caught with some we usually associate with big guys playing a smashing game.

 

[ReAnimator Reagan]

Well on the plus side at least he admitted it and did not use some lame excuse i.e. Dick Pills, Tainted Supplements, etc.

When did he give up his Brazilian citizenship?

I was talking to a multiple times world medalist at Pans this year. He asked if I take anything. I responded no. He said not taking Roids is cheating, it's cheating yourself. I thought that was a good line

And who was this? The same guy who was fucking Veronica Vaughn?

 

[Was at Pride GP 2000]

GSP and Tim Kennedy where complaining about the lack of steroid testing in the UFC.
They both take steroids even when not preparing for fight just for fun and the look.

Is there facts to this?

 

[yetanother]

Is there facts to this?

Just photographic evidence of GSP and Tim being extra roided when not training.
Tim is know to cheat and whine and throw a fit when he looses anyway.
He almost knocked out Romero by grabbing his glove with a spider guard style grip and was whining and throwing a fit when Romero won anyway.

 

[vcmmafan]

Is there facts to this?

There isn't

 

[Coconutwater]

I don't know what percentage of professional jiu jitsu competitors take steroids but I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of them took PED's. I'm not talking about anabolic stuff, but rather, anything that increases performance such as bronchodilators, blood packing, or anything that ups endurance.

Years ago, at an academy I used to train at, at least two-thirds of the Brazilians from purple belt and above were on gear. They spoke of how excited they were anticipating a new batch coming in. They kindly advised me to jump in on it saying "Then you train goooooood. Gooooood training." I politely refused. When I see photos of Rodolfo I shake my head in confirmation that at least from the Brazilian side, it is in fact rampant and best of all, cheap and accessible for them.

 

[Dogstarman]

I don't know what percentage of professional jiu jitsu competitors take steroids but I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of them took PED's. I'm not talking about anabolic stuff, but rather, anything that increases performance such as bronchodilators, blood packing, or anything that ups endurance.

Years ago, at an academy I used to train at, at least two-thirds of the Brazilians from purple belt and above were on gear. They spoke of how excited they were anticipating a new batch coming in. They kindly advised me to jump in on it saying "Then you train goooooood. Gooooood training." I politely refused. When I see photos of Rodolfo I shake my head in confirmation that at least from the Brazilian side, it is in fact rampant and best of all, cheap and accessible for them.
View attachment 226023

I really want to get on something. I'm hesitant due to the long term consequences. I'm older and I can feel my body not recovering as well as I used too. I mean I'm still recovering from a cold and it turned into an ear infection. That was about two weeks ago. I'm starting to get my hearing back slowly but it sucks man. I'm not that unhealthy either. I train, I try to eat fairly well. My sleep is what gets me in trouble though. I'm not sleeping enough due to Insomnia. I wish I could sleep more. I tried everything. I don't like the sleeping drugs, Lunesta and ambien really fuck me up.

 

[winterbike]

I really want to get on something. I'm hesitant due to the long term consequences. I'm older and I can feel my body not recovering as well as I used too. I mean I'm still recovering from a cold and it turned into an ear infection. That was about two weeks ago. I'm starting to get my hearing back slowly but it sucks man. I'm not that unhealthy either. I train, I try to eat fairly well. My sleep is what gets me in trouble though. I'm not sleeping enough due to Insomnia. I wish I could sleep more. I tried everything. I don't like the sleeping drugs, Lunesta and ambien really fuck me up.

I can see where you're coming from. After 40, after I have kids, I'm definitely going to give the TRT option a serious ponder. You recuperate faster, you keep more muscle mass, you shed some fat, and your drive goes back up again. What's not to like? If you're not a complete retard with the dosage, you're in the clear.

 

[Balto]

What's not to like?

For myself and a lot of the clean guys I talk to, there are two major concerns:

1. Once you start, it's not easy to stop. Your testes will shut down, and it's not always possible to start them back up normally if you decide to stop. The TRT doctors will tell you this up front, so it's a pretty big decision.

It's relatively expensive (at least for some people), and insurance seems to be cracking down on covering it more and more. It's also another medication that you have to get. So that adds hassle.

The long term commitment alone is enough to make a lot of guys pause on it. I do kind of think it's funny that on BJJ forums, people will rail against having to sign a one year contract with a gym as a bullshit long term commitment but seem to overlook the fact that TRT is roughly the same cost + rest of your life commitment.

2. There aren't any currently known bad long term side effects, but they're still investigating.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4212439/

From the abstract: "The estimated likelihood of adverse effects of long-term TRT is still essentially unknown, as overall high-quality evidence based upon prospective randomized trials to recommend for or against its use in most men with testosterone deficiency (TD) is lacking."

For a lot of guys I know (and me too), the permanence of the treatment plus the ongoing cost plus the unknown likelihood of long term problems is a major hang up.

I also know a lot of guys on TRT who love it and have no problems so there is that.

 

[Coconutwater]

I really want to get on something. I'm hesitant due to the long term consequences. I'm older and I can feel my body not recovering as well as I used too. I mean I'm still recovering from a cold and it turned into an ear infection. That was about two weeks ago. I'm starting to get my hearing back slowly but it sucks man. I'm not that unhealthy either. I train, I try to eat fairly well. My sleep is what gets me in trouble though. I'm not sleeping enough due to Insomnia. I wish I could sleep more. I tried everything. I don't like the sleeping drugs, Lunesta and ambien really fuck me up.

If we're talking steroids, growth hormone... then I personally don't have anything against it unless you're competing for money and thus, are promoting an honorable competitive atmosphere. For personal use I have never taken gear but nothing in my research shows any real negative side effects unless the user doesn't cycle, doesn't adhere to a reasonable dosage recommendation, doesn't eat good food and doesn't address significant injuries pre-cycle. Steroids will strengthen muscle but not address joint integrity. Furthermore, if anyone has a predisposition to baldness, acne, or mental issues, heart valve problems, then yes, I'd avoid gear etc.

But for some older person wanting to improve quality of life? I'd improve diet and sleep first, do reasonable cardio and get blood work done regularly then get on a conservative steroid cycle if I desired a "Kick."

 

[Dogstarman]

If we're talking steroids, growth hormone... then I personally don't have anything against it unless you're competing for money and thus, are promoting an honorable competitive atmosphere. For personal use I have never taken gear but nothing in my research shows any real negative side effects unless the user doesn't cycle, doesn't adhere to a reasonable dosage recommendation, doesn't eat good food and doesn't address significant injuries pre-cycle. Steroids will strengthen muscle but not address joint integrity. Furthermore, if anyone has a predisposition to baldness, acne, or mental issues, heart valve problems, then yes, I'd avoid gear etc.

But for some older person wanting to improve quality of life? I'd improve diet and sleep first, do reasonable cardio and get blood work done regularly then get on a conservative steroid cycle if I desired a "Kick."

I get blood work done. I take care of myself. I'm just getting older I guess.