Parts Of The United States Recently Had Lower Inoculation Rates Some Of The Poorest Areas In Africa

Probably not. That's precisely why people do studies instead of just asking for anecdotes and "gut feelings".
According to those very studies, your disbelief in studies, expert opinions and conviction in your own personal competence tells me you're probably anti-vax.

Edit: Looks like the studies were right, Mr Dunning Kruger.
If we are doing assumptions here, I gotta label you as part of the "Brothers of Convention" movement.

I'm sure you get a real secure feeling out of labeling people "paranoid" "feeling special" and whatever soft serve ad hominems that support your view, boldly backed up by studies and statistics.

Remember my only point was in this country it's not a left right issue, I wasnt debating the vax issue. You felt the need to broaden the discussion?

Experience on the ground is not an anecdote, and is much more reliable than someone a half a world away googling studies.

The whole "studies" industry is as corrupt as anything else and has been for a long time. Conventional people cling to them as some expert security blanket. I get it.
 
If we are doing assumptions here, I gotta label you as part of the "Brothers of Convention" movement.

I'm sure you get a real secure feeling out of labeling people "paranoid" "feeling special" and whatever soft serve ad hominems that support your view, boldly backed up by studies and statistics.

Remember my only point was in this country it's not a left right issue, I wasnt debating the vax issue. You felt the need to broaden the discussion?

Experience on the ground is not an anecdote, and is much more reliable than someone a half a world away googling studies.

The whole "studies" industry is as corrupt as anything else and has been for a long time. Conventional people cling to them as some expert security blanket. I get it.

It's not an assumption when you spell it out in your posts.
By definition, your personal testimony and your interactions with other antivaxxers is anecdotal evidence. Like I said, your confidence in your opinion over the findings of expertise and studies is exactly why we have antivaxxers in the first place.
An ideology informed by a lack of trust and an overestimation of personal competence.
 
It's not an assumption when you spell it out in your posts.
By definition, your personal testimony and your interactions with other antivaxxers is anecdotal evidence. Like I said, your confidence in your opinion over the findings of expertise and studies is exactly why we have antivaxxers in the first place.
An ideology informed by a lack of trust and an overestimation of personal competence.
And yours is an ideology formed by cerebral surrender.

You want to drag this into something else than the original comment you responded to? Not taking the bait.

Maybe some day I'll engage you on this. A lot more than dirty basket weavers and redneck hippies making these claims. Your insistence on instantly degrading the people shows me you have done no opposition research.

Maybe one day I'll lay it out for you. But that's going to take a lot more time than I currently have.
 
And yours is an ideology formed by cerebral surrender.

You want to drag this into something else than the original comment you responded to? Not taking the bait.

Maybe some day I'll engage you on this. A lot more than dirty basket weavers and redneck hippies making these claims. Your insistence on instantly degrading the people shows me you have done no opposition research.

Maybe one day I'll lay it out for you. But that's going to take a lot more time than I currently have.

Oh unfortunately I've got plenty of anecdotal accounts of interactions with anti-vaxxers, and certainly not just online.
This is all under the scope of my original reply. Anti-vax isn't a politically polarised issue, but it most certainly is an ideological product. The exact objections you've made, and your history of comments on the topic, in themselves are anecdotal support of the very studies you deride.
 
Science does not currently support vaccines endangering anyone... fact.
 
Oh unfortunately I've got plenty of anecdotal accounts of interactions with anti-vaxxers, and certainly not just online.
This is all under the scope of my original reply. Anti-vax isn't a politically polarised issue, but it most certainly is an ideological product. The exact objections you've made, and your history of comments on the topic, in themselves are anecdotal support of the very studies you deride.
Ok, buddy, I get it. Anything else?
 
From my experience this is pretty much how it works. This is exactly what happened to a doctor whose child (google Hannah Pohling) experienced a similar regression after vaccination. He had to fight for years before his daughter was properly recognized as a victim of vaccination. Everyone seems to adhere to the dogma, "safe and effective" even in the face of uncomfortable facts (e.g. SV 40, hidden clinical trials, poor post marketing research, etc). Many even belittle those who in any way question vaccination, as seen in every "anti vax" thread ever, until their child is harmed and they start to actually research vaccination themselves. That's what happened to me (my child suffered a seizure "likely caused" by the MMR which led me to learn that indeed, seizure is a "rare" side effect of vaccination!). It seems to take such a major event to wake people from their big pharma programming

Hannah Poling was found to have a mitochondrial enzyme deficit that resulted in encephalopathy. The family made a claim and was subsequently compensated, but only because the government couldn't prove a negative. It has to be heartbreaking for a parent to see developmental regression in their child (very sorry to hear about your child in particular), but the entire notion of a link between autism and the MMR vaccine is predicated on Wakefield's now well-documented lie. Correlation does not automatically equal causation.
 
Anti-vaxxers should be shunned like lepers were previously.
 
Liberals be like, "Climate change is real you stupid conservatives, I can't believe you deny science like that".

Also liberals, "Vaccinations are unsafe and there are 70 genders".
 
Anti science from the left is becoming alarming. I'm in a Facebook group and there are tons of people who are very anti vax. For no reason at all. Flu shots ok that's an option, but MMR and those kinds of things, friggin get them
I think these people are largely beyond political spectrum, or at least scattered across it. It's a matter of failure to seek and process inforrmation, anti-vaxxers come in many shapes and sizes. Quasi-libertarian burnouts, bored housewives, ditzy Facebook moms. I do generally think the impetus comes from the female, though I don't have objective evidence of that.
 
I think these people are largely beyond political spectrum, or at least scattered across it. It's a matter of failure to seek and process inforrmation, anti-vaxxers come in many shapes and sizes. Quasi-libertarian burnouts, bored housewives, ditzy Facebook moms. I do generally think the impetus comes from the female, though I don't have objective evidence of that.
Dude I'm in a FB group and all the moms talk about toxins and crap. Your body isn't full of toxins. You don't have mercury poisoning.
They just on stuoid stuff and self reinforce dumb ideas really hard
 
Dude I'm in a FB group and all the moms talk about toxins and crap. Your body isn't full of toxins. You don't have mercury poisoning.
They just on stuoid stuff and self reinforce dumb ideas really hard
A lot of my friends went to Waterloo U and ended up at high end tech companies like Google, but they're still always on about some new fad diet or repeating stuff that can be diaproven with a quick Google search, ironically. It always reminds me you can be a PHD in something and have idea what you're talking about in another area.
 
A lot of my friends went to Waterloo U and ended up at high end tech companies like Google, but they're still always on about some new fad diet or repeating stuff that can be diaproven with a quick Google search, ironically. It always reminds me you can be a PHD in something and have idea what you're talking about in another area.

giphy.webp
 
Hannah Poling was found to have a mitochondrial enzyme deficit that resulted in encephalopathy.

How exactly did her condition "result" in encephalopathy? Perhaps it was the vaccination which reportedly preceded her deterioration?

"Then, in July 2000, she was vaccinated against nine diseases in one doctor's visit: measles, mumps, rubella, polio, varicella, diphtheria, pertussis, tetanus, and Haemophilus influenzae.

Afterward, her health declined rapidly. She developed high fevers, stopped eating, didn't respond when spoken to, began showing signs of autism, and began having screaming fits. In 2002, Hannah's parents filed an autism claim in federal vaccine court. Five years later, the government settled the case before trial and had it sealed. It's taken more than two years for both sides to agree on how much Hannah will be compensated for her injuries."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/family-to-receive-15m-plus-in-first-ever-vaccine-autism-court-award/


[
The family made a claim and was subsequently compensated, but only because the government couldn't prove a negative.

Can you please elaborate on this point, I don't quite understand? Are you saying they couldn't prove it WASNT the vaccinations that Hannah received prior to her deterioration? This could be said of nearly all cases of injury post vaccination, as this is the line of reasoning I hear regularly from provaxxers to dismiss even close temporal associations. To me, this sounds like a slimy /legalise way of admitting guilt without actually taking on liability for the 1000's of cases that were in the pipeline at the vaccine court.

[
It has to be heartbreaking for a parent to see developmental regression in their child (very sorry to hear about your child in particular), but the entire notion of a link between autism and the MMR vaccine is predicated on Wakefield's now well-documented lie. Correlation does not automatically equal causation.

It is heartbreaking and usually this is what it takes to shake someone from their conditioning around vaccination being "scientific" and "safe." But this realization is only the beginning and simply leads parents to actually research vaccination in detail, which almost inevitably leads to them turning "antivax," either in part or wholly. Ever wonder why almost everyone who actually researches the topic becomes a skeptic? How could you not? The vaccination program as implemented in the US is profoundly unscientific, largely because nobody wants to actually look at adverse outcomes.

Regarding Autism/MMR, I agree that there is not strong evidence currently to support causation, or even correlation. That being said, it's not too hard to miss something you're not looking for, particulalry when it pertains to something as complicated as Autism, which is really just a certain number of symptoms when in sufficient numbers magically becomes a formal diagnosis. So a person can have 4 of 5 diagnostic criteria and found to NOT have autism and viola! Vaccines don't cause autism! They do, however, increase odds of seizure and tics, both of which are experienced by autistic individuals at higher rates than the general population. Also, you must realize that very few researchers are actually looking for vaccine adverse events (it seems to be the quickest way to be labels a "crank"). According to independent researchers (the Cochrane Collabration) research into adverse events and MMR is "Largely inadequate." I'm assuming you understand what that means... What is even more concerning is that Cochrane came to this conclusion AFTER the MMR Autism scare which led to a sharp increase in the research, unfortunately that research (along with prior research) was lacking scientific strength and is largely useless if one actually wants to determine risk vs benefit.
 
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Anti science from the left is becoming alarming. I'm in a Facebook group and there are tons of people who are very anti vax. For no reason at all. Flu shots ok that's an option, but MMR and those kinds of things, friggin get them

Homeschool children are less likely to be vaccinated than kids at public schools. Homeschooling family lean heavily to the Conservative side of the spectrum.
 
Homeschool children are less likely to be vaccinated than kids at public schools. Homeschooling family lean heavily to the Conservative side of the spectrum.
But are they at the same super low rate as these Californian school? I mean 40% of kids are vaccinated is crazy low
 
A lot of my friends went to Waterloo U and ended up at high end tech companies like Google, but they're still always on about some new fad diet or repeating stuff that can be diaproven with a quick Google search, ironically. It always reminds me you can be a PHD in something and have idea what you're talking about in another area.
Yeah even smart people can be pretty dumb. Amazing that even with the ability to instantly research something, we often times don't or won't
 
But are they at the same super low rate as these Californian school? I mean 40% of kids are vaccinated is crazy low

I don't think so. Those are crazy low rates. I was speak about the larger population. Even as a Liberal I like the irony of of California protecting the personal freedom of people to do dumb stuff over well established government health policy.
 
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