OZ Reserve Bank Head - Aussies afraid of Foreigners and Robots

[lecter]

Nonsense. Anyone who values their skills at what they do and have a sense of pride will ask for a pay rise.

I do that all the time without valuing my skills or having a sense of pride.

 

[The Witcher]

I do that all the time without valuing my skills or having a sense of pride.

At least you know who you are

 

[lecter]

At least you know who you are

got a nameplate on my desk so I won't forget who I am

 

[mon]

My bad. I'm not in construction.

What's your roster?

Construction had the 4 and 1 except Barrows 26 and 9 (changed a year ago or so for 23 and 9 I think)

With the only doing 10s with the penalties pip and redundancy you could make very good money but that's all dried up. Flat rates all round. Freos sacked all the unionists to get there EBA through so anyone working for them are screwed.

Irish company catalpa had 55 staff on site and 1 Aussie (he was sacked the day after voted safety rep.

Bhp first started the trend to not pay construction rates by calling it modification work(i think, can't remember now). Look at karratha gas plant job, flat rate, shut downs flat rate etc etc

 

[PrinceOfPain]

Your simple rebuttal is telling

More than you know.

 

[The Witcher]

What's your roster?

Construction had the 4 and 1 except Barrows 26 and 9 (changed a year ago or so for 23 and 9 I think)

With the only doing 10s with the penalties pip and redundancy you could make very good money but that's all dried up. Flat rates all round. Freos sacked all the unionists to get there EBA through so anyone working for them are screwed.

Irish company catalpa had 55 staff on site and 1 Aussie (he was sacked the day after voted safety rep.

Bhp first started the trend to not pay construction rates by calling it modification work(i think, can't remember now). Look at karratha gas plant job, flat rate, shut downs flat rate etc etc

2/1 but I start my new job in two weeks. Got a gig in the perth office (FMG) by putting my nose down and putting the work in, along with some other external studies. I have done 6 and 7 weeks on during the boom, the money was too hot. Construction may be different I do know they employ many internationals but that has never affected me or my career.

 

[mon]

2/1 but I start my new job in two weeks. Got a gig in the perth office (FMG) by putting my nose down and putting the work in, along with some other external studies. I have done 6 and 7 weeks on during the boom, the money was too hot. Construction may be different I do know they employ many internationals but that has never affected me or my career.

Sigh, yeah the fucking 457s. Every one of them sending 95%of their money out of the country for the mortgage back home, insanity. Always used to like the sound of the Irish accent, now it just shits me to tears.

Good on you. Irons a fickle beast though so watch that spot price, hope it picks itself up again.

Worked it out 6 and 1s the sweet earner after that theres not much difference over 6 months. Only 1 company let me do it due to site regs and legal risk.

 

[Ruprecht]

The balance of power swung hard to the employer, and has done with 20 years of neoliberal economic policy. The decline in union membership and relevance over the last 2-3 decades says it all.
Combine that with privatisation and offshoring and you've got the modern globalised economic reality. Job security is a thing of the past. I believe the average employment term in Australia is currently about 3 years.
Not something you can accurately pin on foreigners and robots, but I guess that doesn't matter when you're looking for something to blame.

 

[HIMBOB]

Lol yeah. It's heavily subsidised, had massive amounts of irregularities in its documents(enough to stall the project), I believe they're aiming for a fully autonomous process as well
http://www.businessreviewaustralia....-partners-with-Komatsu-for-Carmichael-project

"Based in the Galilee Basin of western Queensland, the Carmichael coal project is a part of Adani’s vision to instill the first fully autonomous mining operation comprised of mine, railway and port in the world. The mine is expected to produce 60 million tons of coal each year with an estimated operating life of about 90 years.

There's nothing like Australian government to screw things up for tomorrows kids. India has so many coal fired powerstations being built and more approved, they need coal so what we'll do is destroy as many Australian companies by heavily subsidising a foreign company who'll employ no one.

Yeh Australia, it's like a brain trust for the retarded.

It boggles the mind that its getting supported.
But what really and I mean really confuses me is that its Queenslanders who are supporting it, the one group who will have to contribute the most financially and have the most at risk due to reef damage.

I read alot about and all the time I think, we finally this is dead, no one will support it now. then boom another round of pro Adani save the poor poor indians and the poor queenslanders.

The mines is that bad financially, I wouldn't even be concern about the environmental damage because it simply will no get off the ground.

 

[mon]

It boggles the mind that its getting supported.
But what really and I mean really confuses me is that its Queenslanders who are supporting it, the one group who will have to contribute the most financially and have the most at risk due to reef damage.

I read alot about and all the time I think, we finally this is dead, no one will support it now. then boom another round of pro Adani save the poor poor indians and the poor queenslanders.

The mines is that bad financially, I wouldn't even be concern about the environmental damage because it simply will no get off the ground.

Nailed it and I'm construction.

The problem is things are so desperate in Queensland that they are believing the media on hope.

The government needs rooting, they always(either party) keep flogging a dead horse and focus on the past instead of making a future.

After our massive dollar run we should have been planning for the bubble pop(I did on a currency hedge ) once it was obvious we would be going sub 80cents USD they should have dusted of the shrimp on the Barbie, substituted Heath Ledger into Paul Hogan's spot and made a tourist economic cycle targeting Americans and Chinese tourists.

 

[mon]

The balance of power swung hard to the employer, and has done with 20 years of neoliberal economic policy. The decline in union membership and relevance over the last 2-3 decades says it all.
Combine that with privatisation and offshoring and you've got the modern globalised economic reality. Job security is a thing of the past. I believe the average employment term in Australia is currently about 3 years.
Not something you can accurately pin on foreigners and robots, but I guess that doesn't matter when you're looking for something to blame.

Sometimes I wonder if you're a 300lb, bitter, self righteous, virgin who has never lived in the real world but is in one of those bubbles they have for immune diseases. Australias bubble boy I guess.

Most of your post wasn't too far from the mark than we get to inexperienced shit like this
"Not something you can accurately pin on foreigners and robots, but I guess that doesn't matter when you're looking for something to blame."

What so you do for a job mate?
Have you worked in WA in the last 7 years?
Do you have extensive construction experience? Have you even used a shovel if it comes to it?
Have you worked FIFO in WA as a construction worker? Drop a couple of site names please, I'll have heard of them.
Do you have any first hand experience with 457s or foreign workers heavily employed within your industry on a state level?

I'm hardly a computer genius so won't be tracking you down(that and I don't have a computer or care to)

Reply to those questions and I'll dignify your complete crap I bolded with a response from the real world with actual hands on experience and examples.

If you can't be bothered answering I'll just assume it's another case of interpreting the lines on the inside of a large colon, 21st century's version of tarot cards.

 

[Last Samurai]

I can handle a bit of both


but foreign-made robots is where I draw the line!

 

[IDL]

Who's not scared of robots? Haven't you guys seen Terminator?

Hasta La Vista, pension

 

[uppercutbus]

 

[mon]

I can handle a bit of both


but foreign-made robots is where I draw the line!

Lol, is there any other kind? Love Jap cars BTW.

The politicians and their independant reviews are saying its due to our high wages for more people and low productivity..
You could pay Australians $10 per hour and remove all benefits, entitlements, security and we still would be no where near competitive with China (they're no longer the cheapest either)
What these idiots mean is we need the Australian public to sacrifice so we can do well, by we they mean me

 

[MMA IAN]

This.

WA has almost no FIFO or construction work that has penalty rates because of the destruction of job safety due to labour hire companies. Wheatstone is the last union eba but it's on its last legs and not employing.

NT has inpex but we can see how that's going.
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-...ood-down-laing-orouke-jkc/8355386?pfmredir=sm

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-...e-jobs-on-inpex-lng-plant/8211380?pfmredir=sm


Adani is a lie, there will be not 1 Aussie employed on the rail line as the Chinese free trade agreement ensured the welders are all Korean. The media is saying 10000 jobs will be created. What a load of shit, Barrow island was/is arguably one of the most complex construction projects and it had around 7000 on it. Smoke and mirrors.

Most people I know who's still got a FIFO or offshore job in WA still gets penalty rates, location allowance, danger pay etc, but it does depend on the occupation. Managerial areas are salaried for sure though - edit: ok just checked actually some are flat rate now

Inpex has gone to shit. Even jobs for Trade Assistants are getting hundreds of applicants and It's single handedly fucked the rental market up here with all the QLDers going back home.

That's like when I worked in Cape Preston at the Sino/CITIC site, CITIC had bought in every living male relative they had in China to work there. Shit was a clusterfuck. Couldn't communicate with half the workers, they bought in all the equipment and plant from China because it was cheaper but then it wouldn't meet Australian safety standards so we had to rework it, not surprised when it went over budget. Half the cost of labour didn't even get spent here, just sent straight back to China.

W.A mining rarely had penalty rates in the boom, just a high flat rate.

Oh we sure did get penalty rates mate, work a casual 12hr saturday, double bubble sunday, oh mondays a public holiday? double bubble that too and make a sweet 4k for the three days. Those were the days.

2/1 but I start my new job in two weeks. Got a gig in the perth office (FMG) by putting my nose down and putting the work in, along with some other external studies. I have done 6 and 7 weeks on during the boom, the money was too hot. Construction may be different I do know they employ many internationals but that has never affected me or my career.

Nice man, the path to success takes many different routes but the ladder to success is located in the offices. I'm from Perth and It's been quiet for most companies there, I'd say you've either impressed someone or has FMG got a shiny new contract? You can tell me, even if it isn't announced yet My old mans company was laying people off until they picked up the Prelude contract, that alones keeping them in work for 5 years or more. FMG must have something up their sleeve

 

[mon]

Most people I know who's still got a FIFO or offshore job in WA still gets penalty rates, location allowance, danger pay etc, but it does depend on the occupation. Managerial areas are salaried for sure though - edit: ok just checked actually some are flat rate now

Inpex has gone to shit. Even jobs for Trade Assistants are getting hundreds of applicants and It's single handedly fucked the rental market up here with all the QLDers going back home.

That's like when I worked in Cape Preston at the Sino/CITIC site, CITIC had bought in every living male relative they had in China to work there. Shit was a clusterfuck. Couldn't communicate with half the workers, they bought in all the equipment and plant from China because it was cheaper but then it wouldn't meet Australian safety standards so we had to rework it, not surprised when it went over budget. Half the cost of labour didn't even get spent here, just sent straight back to China.



Oh we sure did get penalty rates mate, work a casual 12hr saturday, double bubble sunday, oh mondays a public holiday? double bubble that too and make a sweet 4k for the three days. Those were the days.




Nice man, the path to success takes many different routes but the ladder to success is located in the offices. I'm from Perth and It's been quiet for most companies there, I'd say you've either impressed someone or has FMG got a shiny new contract? You can tell me, even if it isn't announced yet My old mans company was laying people off until they picked up the Prelude contract, that alones keeping them in work for 5 years or more. FMG must have something up their sleeve

I don't know about some going to flat rate, honestly more accurate to say some still have penalties.

As for offshore the nepotism within the Maori's is legendary in construction with offshore you've got Buckley's being Aussie and getting a green start(same for experienced really). The amount of offshore guys I've worked with in the last 5 years that were pushed out once the new kiwi supervision came on board is pretty wild and you don't choose 4:1 over 4:4 unless you have no choice.

Lol ahh Sink iron, I hear you. That'll be the next James Hardy asbestos in 40 years.
The stories I can tell from there, have you been back post construction? Saw a Chinese supervisor remove mandatory individual lock-ons for the shut down because it was taking up too much time. He locked on for 50-60 workers and no-one has any idea who was where, one day 3 guys were almost left behind due to the complete CF. Honestly the money leaving the country on that one was nothing like Barrow or Wheatstone though, at its peak I think you'd be lucky to have had 40% Aussie workers. This while everyone knew 10 guys back in Perth who would have killed to get the FIFO.

Pm me if your old man's chasing good workers(yeah I'm not shy of putting it in) Confidentiality guaranteed and you'd get a training partner onsite

Cool to talk to someone been to the same places

 

[VivaRevolution]

The balance of power swung hard to the employer, and has done with 20 years of neoliberal economic policy. The decline in union membership and relevance over the last 2-3 decades says it all.
Combine that with privatisation and offshoring and you've got the modern globalised economic reality. Job security is a thing of the past. I believe the average employment term in Australia is currently about 3 years.
Not something you can accurately pin on foreigners and robots, but I guess that doesn't matter when you're looking for something to blame.

I swear I thought the idea was that it is a government representative of the people. We write the laws. Or at least we do if our government's aren't occupied.

I don't understand this idea that we just have to accept anything.

Are you saying we can't go back to exactly how things were? Ok, I agree, but I don't see how that translates into the people having to accept that their labor conditions have worsened because we got put into competition with 3rd world labor markets. We can change that.

 

[Ruprecht]

I swear I thought the idea was that it is a government representative of the people. We write the laws. Or at least we do if our government's aren't occupied.

I don't understand this idea that we just have to accept anything.

Are you saying we can't go back to exactly how things were? Ok, I agree, but I don't see how that translates into the people having to accept that their labor conditions have worsened because we got put into competition with 3rd world labor markets. We can change that.

It's mostly technologically driven, regardless of the neoliberal policies that accelerated it. More efficient and effective transportation and communication and a greater rate of change. The effective globalisation of production outstripped the organisation of labour, and industries have faced disruptive innovation, such as digital media destroying print media. You can certainly continue subsidising production and jobs (be it with taxes, grants, tariffs or loans), but that's not economically effective and it's pointless without some sort of end goal (ie maintaining local military, communications and energy technology producation for national security reasons). They tried it here with three decades of subsidisation for vehicle manufacture, but it ultimately failed. People aren't really prepared to pay that much more to maintain those local jobs. Of course those neoliberal policies might have also increased the human impact in terms of giving less time to adapt, retrain, retire etc. Without an alternative option, they also should have used the time gained by subsidising industry to retrain the workers, rather than just delay their inevitable redundancy.

Despite the changes wrought by automation it hasn't really lead to declining employee tenure or overall employment though. The same claims have been made since the time of the Luddites, but so far it's created as many jobs as it's destroyed. The focus seems to have been largely on self-driving vehicles of late, but the thing that's really about to change is that big data and AI/Machine learning aren't just a threat to blue collar industries in the way industrialisation and previous automation has been. Some say the automation of white-collar professional jobs will be a tipping point where automation outstrips job replacement, but that's yet to be seen. You certainly can't blame a nonexistent effect of automation for the declining tenure rates over the last three decades.

It's a similar story with mass immigration. You can see that after Howard open the gates on "Big Australia" there was more competition and lower wages at the bottom of job market (primarily unskilled labour), but overall that's more than offset by the economic growth and gains to professional employment (especially with our relatively strict requirements for migration). It's increased wealth polarisation (especially when combined with a lack of infrastructure investment and a resulting housing affordability crisis), but hasn't really effected job security. The same groups of people have been doing the exact same whinging with every group of immigrants to arrive here, from the Irish to the Greeks and Italians, the Vietnamese and now the Indians. The fact is that the shift in job security is a global phenomenon and even effects relatively isolated job markets like Japan. Of course there are cases of obvious abuse, such as the 457 visas being employed here (even by fast food chains), but they aren't significant enough to be causing global, systemic change (about 400K visas issues, with about 200K 457 visa workers actually in Australia, and the program has now been axed).
So what are you going to do? Use some sort of globalised legislation to try and deliberately slow down the pace of technological change and innovation?

 

[VivaRevolution]

It's mostly technologically driven, regardless of the neoliberal policies that accelerated it. More efficient and effective transportation and communication and a greater rate of change. The effective globalisation of production outstripped the organisation of labour, and industries have faced disruptive innovation, such as digital media destroying print media. You can certainly continue subsidising production and jobs (be it with taxes, grants, tariffs or loans), but that's not economically effective and it's pointless without some sort of end goal (ie maintaining local military, communications and energy technology producation for national security reasons). They tried it here with three decades of subsidisation for vehicle manufacture, but it ultimately failed. People aren't really prepared to pay that much more to maintain those local jobs. Of course those neoliberal policies might have also increased the human impact in terms of giving less time to adapt, retrain, retire etc. Without an alternative option, they also should have used the time gained by subsidising industry to retrain the workers, rather than just delay their inevitable redundancy.

Despite the changes wrought by automation it hasn't really lead to declining employee tenure or overall employment though. The same claims have been made since the time of the Luddites, but so far it's created as many jobs as it's destroyed. The focus seems to have been largely on self-driving vehicles of late, but the thing that's really about to change is that big data and AI/Machine learning aren't just a threat to blue collar industries in the way industrialisation and previous automation has been. Some say the automation of white-collar professional jobs will be a tipping point where automation outstrips job replacement, but that's yet to be seen. You certainly can't blame a nonexistent effect of automation for the declining tenure rates over the last three decades.

It's a similar story with mass immigration. You can see that after Howard open the gates on "Big Australia" there was more competition and lower wages at the bottom of job market (primarily unskilled labour), but overall that's more than offset by the economic growth and gains to professional employment (especially with our relatively strict requirements for migration). It's increased wealth polarisation (especially when combined with a lack of infrastructure investment and a resulting housing affordability crisis), but hasn't really effected job security. The same groups of people have been doing the exact same whinging with every group of immigrants to arrive here, from the Irish to the Greeks and Italians, the Vietnamese and now the Indians. The fact is that the shift in job security is a global phenomenon and even effects relatively isolated job markets like Japan. Of course there are cases of obvious abuse, such as the 457 visas being employed here (even by fast food chains), but they aren't significant enough to be causing global, systemic change (about 400K visas issues, with about 200K 457 visa workers actually in Australia, and the program has now been axed).
So what are you going to do? Use some sort of globalised legislation to try and deliberately slow down the pace of technological change and innovation?

Shorten work weeks, end the wage system, go to worker co-ops, shut down immigration until wages recover, pass laws that protect 1st world labor markets from 3rd world labor markets. I mean the options are literally endless. Let's move to self issued credit.