Why is Steam Issuing Tax Breaks for the Rich?

You can quickly bloat your pc full of bullshit at this rate.

Nvidia
Steam
Bethesda.net
Origin
Etc etc etc.

Stop the madness!!
This. I'm keeping it to Steam and GOG
 
Acknowledged, but how does this factor into the AAA breakoff developing today?

Like you iterated after, its doesnt apply to them because of their own creations.

Epic Games proposition is directed towards those to use or already license the Unreal Engine.
 
https://www.gamereactor.eu/articles/715363/Opinion+Why+is+Steam+Issuing+Tax+Breaks+for+the+Rich/

This is not a "tax break". This is a distribution/licensing fee. Clickbait headline in that respect, but go with it.

Steam isn't the problem. The issue is that the major game developers have grown so large now that they no longer need Steam. They are marketplaces unto themselves. Many anticipated this when EA's Origin arrived. They have a million ways to advertise their games, they can afford their own servers, negotiate their own corollary licensing contracts (as with Windows via Microsoft), and they have the technical means to deliver their own content and support in-house.

From a certain point of view Steam has something of a monopoly, so one could choose to perceive this as another form of competition to join GoG, for example, but one wonders what will become of Valve if they become another glorified platform to sell indie games. That's why I find the musing in red the most intriguing despite that I am disheartened by the prospect.

If Steam begins to charge a subscription fee, and provide perks only to subscribers, similar to the Xbox Live marketplace for Gold members, or the Playstation Network, then perhaps that could be one way of fighting back. Of course, the only truly effective way I see this working is if they prohibit online play for games they sell without a subscription.

This means PC gamers will end up paying for something that previously was a free service; an especially bitter pill considering the community has long mocked console players for this very burden.

Technology in this form doesn't usually regress, I envisage there will be a much more dynamic and less proprietary solution on the horizon.

For example, what if a service like Wix created tools specifically designed to help developers create a fully customised online store for their product? Not terribly far fetched.
 
You can quickly bloat your pc full of bullshit at this rate.

Nvidia
Steam
Bethesda.net
Origin
Etc etc etc.

Stop the madness!!
Same here. I want to get one of the games just released at the Epic store but I'm not interested in having another launcher on my system. I believe it's a timed exclusive so I'm just going to wait until it's available on Steam. Requiring their launcher is going to cost them my business and it sounds like yours and others as well.
 
Like you iterated after, its doesnt apply to them because of their own creations.

Epic Games proposition is directed towards those to use or already license the Unreal Engine.
Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that Epic and other AAA game publishers are increasingly emboldened to diverge from Steam. Steam can't rely on the Source Engine alone to maintain market supremacy. After all, the Unreal Engine swallows Source, and it isn't just AAA games we're talking about.

World's 15 Largest Video Game Publishers
Who's next?

Take-Two? No more GTA, 2K Sports, Civilization, or even the RIP'd Bioshock on Steam.
Bandai Namco? No more Dark Souls, Divinity: Original Sin, or Project CARS.
Ubisoft? No more Far Cry, Assassin's Creed, Tom Clancy, Watch Dogs, The Crew, or even South Park.
Warner Bros.? No more Batman, Lord of the Rings, or LEGO.
Bethesda? No more Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Doom, Prey, Rage, Dishonored or The Evil Within.
Technology in this form doesn't usually regress, I envisage there will be a much more dynamic and less proprietary solution on the horizon.

For example, what if a service like Wix created tools specifically designed to help developers create a fully customised online store for their product? Not terribly far fetched.
I like this idea, but the only way it works is if Wix is willing to perform this service in exchange for crumbs, and even then, not likely. That's why these other publishers/developers are breaking off. Wix might be a very appealing model to indie developers, but the big boys don't want to share revenue, anymore, and they won't be interested even in very generous early offers for revenue sharing because they will have no interest in investing in a market whose revenue streams they don't wholly control. Otherwise, at some future date, Wix may decide to arbitrarily change the contract, and up the fees. No point in risking that.
 
Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that Epic and other AAA game publishers are increasingly emboldened to diverge from Steam. Steam can't rely on the Source Engine alone to maintain market supremacy. After all, the Unreal Engine swallows Source, and it isn't just AAA games we're talking about.

World's 15 Largest Video Game Publishers
Who's next?

Take-Two? No more GTA, 2K Sports, Civilization, or even the RIP'd Bioshock on Steam.
Bandai Namco? No more Dark Souls, Divinity: Original Sin, or Project CARS.
Ubisoft? No more Far Cry, Assassin's Creed, Tom Clancy, Watch Dogs, The Crew, or even South Park.
Warner Bros.? No more Batman, Lord of the Rings, or LEGO.
Bethesda? No more Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Doom, Prey, Rage, Dishonored or The Evil Within.

I like this idea, but the only way it works is if Wix is willing to perform this service in exchange for crumbs, and even then, not likely. That's why these other publishers/developers are breaking off. Wix might be a very appealing model to indie developers, but the big boys don't want to share revenue, anymore, and they won't be interested even in very generous early offers for revenue sharing because they will have no interest in investing in a market whose revenue streams they don't wholly control. Otherwise, at some future date, Wix may decide to arbitrarily change the contract, and up the fees. No point in risking that.

Wix was just an example, it could come from anywhere. But, for instance, Wix already has a service to create online stores, free of charge.
 
Wix was just an example, it could come from anywhere. But, for instance, Wix already has a service to create online stores, free of charge.
I get that, and I love the idea, but what I'm pointing out is that the main incentive here over a store like Steam is that these developers/publishers would get to keep a larger portion of their revenue stream by building their own store on Wix. Presumably, though, they would have to share some % of revenue with Wix as part of an ongonig licensing scheme. So when they are capable of generating their own stores, themselves, what is the incentive to share any revenue at all? They can eat the whole cake.

Ergo, this would only be attractive to them if Wix took such a low cut, and provided such an efficient model, that it was cheaper for the developers despite giving up some revenue to use Wix instead due to the cost overhead of building & maintaining their own stores. Nonetheless, as I pointed out, unless they can sign some sort of contract in perpetuity, this doesn't prohibit Wix from upping the cost to use their service platform in the future (unless Wix could somehow get them to sign one of those 100-year contracts governments sign like this service was the Panama Canal). Even then, that isn't bulletproof, because let's be honest, companies break contracts all the time, and brave their chances in court.

So I don't see what Wix brings to the table that Steam does not, and obviously Steam is already bleeding these major companies who don't need them.
 
I get that, and I love the idea, but what I'm pointing out is that the main incentive here over a store like Steam is that these developers/publishers would get to keep a larger portion of their revenue stream by building their own store on Wix. Presumably, though, they would have to share some % of revenue with Wix as part of an ongonig licensing scheme. So when they are capable of generating their own stores, themselves, what is the incentive to share any revenue at all? They can eat the whole cake.

Ergo, this would only be attractive to them if Wix took such a low cut, and provided such an efficient model, that it was cheaper for the developers despite giving up some revenue to use Wix instead due to the cost overhead of building & maintaining their own stores. Nonetheless, as I pointed out, unless they can sign some sort of contract in perpetuity, this doesn't prohibit Wix from upping the cost to use their service platform in the future (unless Wix could somehow get them to sign one of those 100-year contracts governments sign like this service was the Panama Canal). Even then, that isn't bulletproof, because let's be honest, companies break contracts all the time, and brave their chances in court.

So I don't see what Wix brings to the table that Steam does not, and obviously Steam is already bleeding these major companies who don't need them.

I'm with you entirely.

The only other reason besides raw cost benefit is the handballing of responsibility, which is a big deal when talking about massive software projects.

If you can get someone else to take the risk and sign an agreement, sometimes it's even worth losing a portion up front.
 
So I don't see what Wix brings to the table that Steam does not, and obviously Steam is already bleeding these major companies who don't need them.

I think this will all come down to this pretty much who needs steam and who doesn't. I think it's been interesting watching someone like UBI who we can all agree is pretty big in the gaming industry. They for some reason have not moved away from steam when I would think they of all companies would have the ability to do so. The only reasoning I can come up with is that when they look at their sales Steam is still a major portion of where their sales are coming from. Either they are scared to see what would happen if they completely moved away or they know what will happen and wont do it (sales drop like a rock).

They seem to have recently made some big changes to the way their store works and sales for their games work but still they stay on Steam. Makes me wonder if they are preparing to stop that soon though. Whenever UBI games go on sale now, the steam version never goes on sale like it used to with all the other stores. I don't even think you can get steam keys for any UBI game except on Steam itself which used to not be the case.
 
Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that Epic and other AAA game publishers are increasingly emboldened to diverge from Steam. Steam can't rely on the Source Engine alone to maintain market supremacy. After all, the Unreal Engine swallows Source, and it isn't just AAA games we're talking about.

Source2 is an engine developed for Valve game IP's thats made free of charge to outside developers if they choose to use it. While Frostbite is an in-house game engine for EA. Unreal Engine is strictly developed for outside game developers to license.
 
Source2 is an engine developed for Valve game IP's thats made free of charge to outside developers if they choose to use it. While Frostbite is an in-house game engine for EA. Unreal Engine is strictly developed for outside game developers to license.
I didn't realize Source2 was free of charge, and I'm assuming you mention this because its use requires signing onto the Steam store in order to use it, but I linked that in order to demonstrate how little respect interest it generates. I don't know why you just brought up Frostbite, and I understand Unreal's model. Otherwise, I'm not sure what about this changes the truth to anything I wrote. You were the one who brought up game engines. I didn't see that as the impetus for exodus by these AAA developers.

If you are endeavoring to draw a deeper connection between the development of games, and where they are marketed, it isn't clear to me.
 
I don't know why you just brought up Frostbite, and I understand Unreal's model. Otherwise, I'm not sure what about this changes the truth to anything I wrote. You were the one who brought up game engines. I didn't see that as the impetus for exodus by these AAA developers.

For context with game engines to their uses.

Its clear to me that Epic Games portal pricing structure is designed for Unreal Engine licensees. Ran into some reports last night that Epic Games are(allegedly) backdoor paying developers to use their online store and additionally requiring them to sign an online store exclusivity agreement.

When it comes to TripleA game companies. Information i ran across last night was also troubling. Ones we view as TripleA that are publicly traded. All lost nearly 50% of their stock value in the past six months.
 
For context with game engines to their uses.

Its clear to me that Epic Games portal pricing structure is designed for Unreal Engine licensees. Ran into some reports last night that Epic Games are(allegedly) backdoor paying developers to use their online store and additionally requiring them to sign an online store exclusivity agreement.
Well, yeah, that's just more feeding my speculation in the OP. These other major companies are now opposing Steam.
When it comes to TripleA game companies. Information i ran across last night was also troubling. Ones we view as TripleA that are publicly traded. All lost nearly 50% of their stock value in the past six months.
Red October destroyed hardware vendors, too. I think this probably has more to with that tech fallout for the stock market in general, and probably also investor speculation with Tencent looming as the elephant in the room. I'm not sure how that is linked to Steam's troubles.
 
Well, yeah, that's just more feeding my speculation in the OP. These other major companies are now opposing Steam.

Opposing Steam isnt their intended goal. To be viewed as such it'll need to be a coordinated effort on the same portal to directly counter Steam. Instead we have fragmented portals relegated to their owned IP's.

Last month Blizzard/Activision held their quarterly investment call. During it they disclosed that WoW's subscription revenue has been surpassed by their WoW micro-transaction store. Which is likely caused by Blizzard now selling WoW Tokens. Which is cash for game time and or in-game currency.

What we're seeing isnt a direct result of hardware vendors. Its restructuring their business models to mimic mobile micro-transactions for bi-yearly IP releases. An those micro-transactions arent fully offsetting the loss in unit sales from buyer burnout. Since theyre pumping out bi-yearly games with the same content with a different number at its end.
 
Opposing Steam isnt their intended goal. To be viewed as such it'll need to be a coordinated effort on the same portal to directly counter Steam. Instead we have fragmented portals relegated to their owned IP's.
The Division 2 will release on the Epic Store, not Steam (Jan-9, 2019)
Steam users are review-bombing Metro series in protest of Exodus’ Epic Store exclusivity (Jan-30, 2019)
The Division 2 is developed by Massive Entertainment, and published by Ubisoft (not Epic).
Metro Exodus is developed by 4A Games, and published by Deep Silver (not Epic).

Yet both are being released exclusively on the Epic Store.

You were wrong...again.
 
You were wrong...again.

You inadequately construed what i wrote and morphed it into something else. Here is what i said which was specifically pointed at a sub-topic of our discussion:
Opposing Steam isnt their intended goal. To be viewed as such it'll need to be a coordinated effort on the same portal to directly counter Steam. Instead we have fragmented portals relegated to their owned IP's.

That civil conversion we had two months ago youre now trying to torpedo by bending it to mean something else.
 
You inadequately construed what i wrote and morphed it into something else. Here is what i said which was specifically pointed at a sub-topic of our discussion:


That civil conversion we had two months ago youre now trying to torpedo by bending it to mean something else.

Is normal with Madmick. Dude can't admit when he's wrong and pulls this shit all the time.
 
You inadequately construed what i wrote and morphed it into something else. Here is what i said which was specifically pointed at a sub-topic of our discussion:

That civil conversion we had two months ago youre now trying to torpedo by bending it to mean something else.
You can borrow my crystal ball anytime, bud.
 
Epic Games throws down an ultimatum for Steam
Tim Sweeney promises more cooperation if Steam ups its revenue share.

Epic Games threw a grenade into the world of digital distribution when it revealed its own storefront late last year, complete with a better deal for developers than anything offered by Steam, the longstanding king of PC gaming. The Epic Games Store has a revenue-share model of 88 percent for developers and 12 percent for Epic, handily outpacing Steam's standard split of 70/30.

This has given Epic an edge, and the company has lured a slew of high-profile developers away from Steam, complete with plans to launch their titles exclusively on the Epic Games Store. The list includes Super Meat Boy Forever, Metro: Exodus, The Division 2, Borderlands 3, Detroit: Become Human, Afterparty and the final season of Telltale's The Walking Dead. Many of these games will eventually hit Steam and other platforms, but they'll be exclusive to the Epic store for a long while first.

However, this could all change. Epic Games CEO Tim Sweeney tweeted a challenge to Steam on Wednesday night



Valve, the company behind Steam, has long been unchallenged in the digital marketplace and its revenue split is a testament to this fact. The company's 70/30 model has been the norm across the industry for at least a decade, and Valve hasn't been forced to update that figure until recently. Just before the Epic Games Store was announced, Valve revealed a new revenue ratio for Steam -- but it only affects a handful of ultra-successful developers.

Today on Steam, any game that makes more than $10 million earns developers 75 percent of its revenue, while titles that earn more than $50 million net its creators 80 percent of all subsequent earnings. Of course, this move doesn't do much to appease independent and mid-tier developers, who can earn 88 percent of all revenue on the Epic Games Store. Even the new Discord store offers a split of 90/10.

Steam is still a clear leader in digital distribution, offering more games than any other PC platform and serving as an entrenched, trusted service for millions of players worldwide. However, the Epic Games Store's existence has already pushed Valve to update its revenue-sharing policies, if only slightly, and Sweeney's challenge could look appealing as Steam attempts to stay on top.

"Such a move would be a glorious moment in the history of PC gaming, and would have a sweeping impact on other platforms for generations to come," Sweeney wrote in a follow-up tweet. "Then stores could go back to just being nice places to buy stuff, rather than the Game Developer IRS."
Five months down the road and there's little point any longer in denying that Epic is posing a serious threat to Steam, and not just as a "fragmented portal relegated to its own IP", not only by virtue of all the games it has drawn away from Steam, such as Metro Exodus, which is not developed, published, nor built on the Unreal Engine owned by Epic, but also by inspiring other startups with their success like Discord who are willing to offer a more favorable revenue split to developers in exchange for a seat at the table.
Polygon said:
Metro Exodus has sold two and a half times more copies on the Epic Games Store than Metro Last Light sold in the same amount of time on Steam. This proves, according to Allison, that “it’s really about your game, not so much about the store [you sell it on].”

While Metro Exodus runs on the developer's own 4A Engine, were it powered by Epic's Unreal Engine 4, the engine licensing fees would have come out of Epic’s 12 percent cut instead of being added on top of Steam’s 30 percent revenue share.
EpicGamesStore_InfoGraphic_1920x1080_df66848d0d804e4366355775eae247a9abdeb1e7.jpg
 
I have and will continue to avoid the Epic games store. So far they haven't managed to grab any game that bothers me. It's still interesting to see what's going on. It's funny because if you look online Epic is receiving massive backlash from the PC gaming community. Seems to be doing well though and Sweeny seems committed to doing this.
 
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