Official Women's Division Discussion #25

Discussion in 'Worldwide MMA Discussion' started by LilMountain, Oct 26, 2017.

  1. PurpleStorm

    PurpleStorm Green Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2016
    Messages:
    1,073
    Likes Received:
    2,034
    My take: Casey kept trying to throw bombs and from the bottom kept going after submissions. Waterson fought smart, using a lot of leg kicks and takedowns. I thought Michelle won rounds 1 & 2. In round 3 Waterson took her down and Casey kept going for submissions instead of getting back to her feet where she was having more success. I thought it was a fun fight. I'm not impressed by Casey's fight iq (in this fight or in her last fight with Herrig).
     
  2. PurpleStorm

    PurpleStorm Green Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2016
    Messages:
    1,073
    Likes Received:
    2,034
    Enjoyed the Dobson v Mueller fight. Very close. They both looked good imo, both threw down.
     
  3. Daniel4802

    Daniel4802 Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2007
    Messages:
    2,675
    Likes Received:
    3,137
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    I'm baffled why the taller Casey kept forcing the clinch. Guess she believed she could control Waterson there. But yeah, it wasn't great and I won't watch their future fights.
     
  4. Dsfdandan

    Dsfdandan Green Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2017
    Messages:
    1,097
    Likes Received:
    2,207
    So, what is the consensus on how well Waterson would do back at 105 at this point?
     
    PurpleStorm likes this.
  5. Eater of Souls

    Eater of Souls Guardian of the Gate

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2016
    Messages:
    9,837
    Likes Received:
    14,219
    Better simply due to smaller talent pool.
     
    Tobago Jones, Rizz and PurpleStorm like this.
  6. WingsLax9042

    WingsLax9042 Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2015
    Messages:
    1,809
    Likes Received:
    3,407
    Didn't she say she can't make 105 anymore? I thought she had some issues with the doctors last time or something.....

    So, she's too big for 105.... and too small for 115. How the fuck does that happen?
     
    SugarKrok and PurpleStorm like this.
  7. Eater of Souls

    Eater of Souls Guardian of the Gate

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2016
    Messages:
    9,837
    Likes Received:
    14,219
    Let your weight get too far above your fighting weight when out of camp.
     
    SugarKrok and PurpleStorm like this.
  8. PurpleStorm

    PurpleStorm Green Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2016
    Messages:
    1,073
    Likes Received:
    2,034
    She was champ at 105 in Invicta but moved up to enter the UFC. Michelle has said she won't fight again at 105 as the weight cut was too difficult / dangerous, especially since having her daughter. Her struggles to make 105 are shown in documentary Fight Mom. Well worth watching. It follows her career for a few years & has great footage of the highs & lows of her life & career.
     
  9. Daniel4802

    Daniel4802 Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2007
    Messages:
    2,675
    Likes Received:
    3,137
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    A lot of old school fighters, male and female, haven't evolved over their careers. Sometimes the issue is the athlete but others, it's the coaches. Michelle is a good athlete; has speed, decent power and mobility. I think 115 is the right spot for her though she should find another camp. Which one I don't know because I believe most are horrible. Perhaps train with Shevchenko.
     
  10. PurpleStorm

    PurpleStorm Green Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2016
    Messages:
    1,073
    Likes Received:
    2,034
    Michelle kept moving laterally, mixing high low & side kicks. End of round two she threw a hard straight kick that pushed Casey a third of the way across the ring and down on her back.

    Casey had trouble cutting off the ring. Instead she resorted to the clinch to try and slow Michelle down. Also poor fight iq in not breaking out of the clinch quickly enough to do more damage. In the lead up to the fight Michelle said she was gonna grow her game after her last two tough losses. She did that well.

    It was interesting to me seeing how Michelle might try and solve the difficulty of fighting a bigger person. Michelle capitalized on Casey's inflexibility, which was apparent in her last fight with Herrig (where Casey barely moved from just one section of the cage). Michelle took Casey down three or four times & spent nearly half the fight in top control. Rather than scrambling to get back up (where she was having success throwing bombs on her feet) Casey kept going for submissions. Some got pretty close (especially the one closing round 3) but in doing so she burned time & energy that might have been spent more effectively standing & trading.
     
  11. Askafan

    Askafan Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2016
    Messages:
    2,968
    Likes Received:
    4,305
    Can't see Michelle leaving JW after all these years ... she should though and it's not as if she takes advantage of all the facilities available there.

    Anyway, no argument with the decision and I like this post-fight photo.

     
  12. Better Every Day

    Better Every Day Jo Jo Calderwood avatar Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Messages:
    13,337
    Likes Received:
    10,723
    Even though Waterson has earned a POTN and Casey has earned two FOTNs in the UFC?
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
  13. Better Every Day

    Better Every Day Jo Jo Calderwood avatar Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Messages:
    13,337
    Likes Received:
    10,723
    For those who may not be aware of it, Serena is unusual with respect to being an (openly) autistic MMA fighter.

     
  14. Askafan

    Askafan Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2016
    Messages:
    2,968
    Likes Received:
    4,305
    Good point and Casey has picked up two FOTN bonuses btw.
     
  15. Black Jack Kane

    Black Jack Kane White Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2016
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    82
    That was Casey's fight to lose. She was very close to getting the submission at the end. But if she had concentrated on getting back to her feet I think she could have blasted Waterson out of there.

    She couldn't deal with Casey's reach and power. Casey allowed Waterson to steal the fight.

    Really, Waterson looked too small in there. I can't see her being a serious contender at 115.
    She could be at 105 if she could safely make the weight.
     
  16. awiv

    awiv Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2008
    Messages:
    776
    Likes Received:
    2,514
  17. awiv

    awiv Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2008
    Messages:
    776
    Likes Received:
    2,514
    In case you missed it...

     
  18. SugarKrok

    SugarKrok Green Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2014
    Messages:
    1,025
    Likes Received:
    1,008
    Waterson looked like the same fighter she's always been. She's unfortunately undersized for the division and welts when her opponent isn't content to just counter strike. This isn't to say I don't like her. I honestly can't remember the last fight of hers that wasn't enjoyable to watch. And this going all the way back to when she beat Penne in Invicta. Great person and fighter, but I think this shows her limits. She benefited from her opponents awful fight IQ, although at least Casey had the wherewithal to initially bang on the feet. She threw away round 2.

    Not sure what's next for Michelle. Maybe a match with Felice would be advisable. Because she absolutely has to stay away from any top 5 as well as Carla Esparza. I was also surprised she was ranked so high at 7.
     
  19. Better Every Day

    Better Every Day Jo Jo Calderwood avatar Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Messages:
    13,337
    Likes Received:
    10,723
    You're right! I forgot about the one with Calderwood. I only remembered the one with Ham.
     
  20. Daniel4802

    Daniel4802 Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2007
    Messages:
    2,675
    Likes Received:
    3,137
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    I don't watch as many fights as I did in the past. One of the reasons is fighters exhibiting very low fight IQ as Casey. If I have shitty takedown defense while having success on the feet I won't run forward and clinch.
     

Share This Page