Official Judo Thread XI: Olympic Travesty Edition | Page 53

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Zankou, Aug 6, 2016.

  1. Kenny from MD Less angry than before.

    Kenny from MD
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    Thank you very much. My coach places a lot of emphasis on grip fighting and I try to pay a lot of attention to my grips, frames and positioning before I even think about attacking (hopefully as I improve, this will become more fluid). Most of our sparring is actually grip fighting and moving each other around and taking position rather than just repping static throws, which I feel is really beneficial when it comes to responding to live opponents.

    He actually had me learn judo as a lefty, because I am right handed, but comfortable standing left foot forward due to boxing. I can shoot off either foot, so I'm ambidextrous with stand up in a sense and used to accidentally switch stances a lot, but he told me to make a concerted effort to learn as a lefty because like you said, it throws people off.

    Here's one other clip from the open belt division. I really tried to commit to the ura nage (my favorite throw) to counter his right hand grip and to keep my posture unbroken to defend the hip throw, but he started dropping all his weight and hanging off of me. I realized I was trying to bully him into it too much and when he went for the trip, switched to a forward throw which worked.

     
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    Last edited: Oct 26, 2017
  2. BKR Orange Belt

    BKR
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    No, it's because for whatever reason, Kenny is much better at Judo and BJJ than you are. He also apparently has real judo coaches.
     
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  3. BKR Orange Belt

    BKR
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    Grip fighting is very important, as well as the frames and positioning. There are so many analogies between the standing work done in Judo and the groundwork in BJJ (and Judo)...

    A large part of the training I do with the HP athletes in our club is centered around grippping and positioning (movement), and action-reaction (which includes pre-gripping move/position).

    It's a good way to train. You have to be good at technical Judo as well (the mechanics of the throws), and keep improving at that aspect. However, IME, the process is what most people lack (how to actually get into position to throw effectively). Well, really, a lot of judoka make a lot of mistakes in the throwing department as well.

    So you are taking a proven approach, and are fortunate to have coaches who understand that.

    Regarding the video, he blocked your back-throw attack by hooking/blocking the lift with his inside leg. His apparent strategy to try to physically overpower you obviously failed. Trying to hook your leg on the outside was a massive mistake, he should have stayed in place and waited for matte'.

    Lots of judoka will watch youtube and try to imitate the various "unorthodox" styles of Judo that are around (Georgian/Russian grips, stuff like that), and usually fail miserably.
     
    #1043
  4. Thycidides Blue Belt

    Thycidides
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    hahaha I went to a seminar Kenny's coach taught at Upstream. I was uke for a lot of the demonstration.

    I get the impression he is way more tournament oriented than my judo coach and 50/50 hq is more competitive oriented than my judo/ bjj academy, if that is what you mean.

    I'm not sure what to do about that other than keep training and be patient.
     
    #1044
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2017
  5. BKR Orange Belt

    BKR
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    No, I mean he is better than both BJJ and Judo than you are.

    You want to get better at Judo or BJJ (and by that I mean, you demonstrate that both by competing successfully, and technical demos), you have to train appropriately.

    Being patient is a good thing, for sure, however, progress is a product of personal effort and coaching.
     
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  6. QingTian Purple Belt

    QingTian
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    This is too harsh. Success at beginning levels is random, and is heavily dependent upon what tactic you settle into. Kenny's heavier class Judo is much easier to apply because you can enforce connection to uke. It's also well known that heavier classes stand more upright where Judo is more easily applied.

    That said it's also true that Kenny is doing the techniques with better execution, but that's partly due to the above and also to overall athleticism.
     
    #1046
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  7. Kenny from MD Less angry than before.

    Kenny from MD
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    I think a heavier weight class gives me more of an opportunity to practice judo as it’s less likely that my opponents baseball slide into guard the second we bump fists, but at least personally, I think athleticism has had no bearing on my development. I actually have a very plodding, slow paced style that is almost entirely based on counter fighting. At the judo tournament I did I was far and away the least “explosive” judoka in both of my brackets.

    Again, I want to emphasize I am NOT GOOD (yet) but the progress I have made (in my opinion) is due to approach to training (thinking and deconstructing technique and emphasizing position rather than repping throws and fits) and more than anything, consistency. Only start from the feet, making small goals and focusing on those areas every night, even if it’s only 10 or 15 minutes.

    Edit: The decade of experience in an extremely similar grappling art doesn’t hurt either.
     
    #1047
  8. Thycidides Blue Belt

    Thycidides
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    Its not so much coaching but rather a lack of willing training partners that want to do judo randori or fight for takedowns. If I go to open mat people will insist on sitting down or immediately pulling guard.

    That being said I think I will drill throws and takedowns instead of groundwork at the drills class I go to. I bet I could ask them to give me some resistance too.
     
    #1048
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2017
  9. QingTian Purple Belt

    QingTian
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    I didn't mean to diminish your skill by saying it was athleticism. I meant you are more athletic than Thycidides, who is having a much harder time implementing the techniques.
     
    #1049
  10. Thycidides Blue Belt

    Thycidides
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    Here are some more videos, I am able to use drop seionage after picking up my opponents timing


    This one is the most emblematic of what happens to me in randori, we both get the classic sleeve/ lapel grip and not much happens. Is there a way to avoid this?



    Looking at the old videos from 2016 I can tell that I've improved to an extent, posture is better, im tryng to get grips and use kuzushi etc I didn't mention this before but I'm near sighted and have a slight physical disability.
     
    #1050
  11. Russky Green Belt

    Russky
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    Definitely!
    I noticed two small things you can change to make a big improvement.
    First, when you fight you are looking down. You should be looking straight forward far away, just like you are sitting in a closed guard. You will still see all his footwork, but your defense will be much better.
    Second, seoi nage starts from the pull. Step forward with one foot and pull opponent into you. Once he starts moving then you turn and lock his arm. You are locking his arm first and then pull, instead. This leaves large gap between bodies and you have no leverage to lift him.
     
    #1051
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  12. RJ Green Black Belt

    RJ Green
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    Listen to Russky ^

    you're improving a lot dude. probably not as fast as you'd like, but we can all see it.

    if you'd be more determined to correct bad habits and work on your technique rather than winning exchanges in randori, you'd still do a lot better.

    like i've said bro, i think if you did a solid 2 months of seoi nage - just ippon and morote - you'd feel yourself improve. greatly. just fuckin throw dude. don't worry about getting thrown. don't worry about making mistakes. you can learn without fucking up, but not nearly as quickly.

    people who practice more have more opportunity to fuck up, and therefore more opportunity to be corrected.

    that's what practice is all about - making mistakes, but making *fewer* mistakes each time.

    remember, nobody was born with these abilities. the judoka you admire are the judoka who devoted each and every day of their entire life to this shit. we're doing it as a hobby.
     
    #1052
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  13. Kenny from MD Less angry than before.

    Kenny from MD
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    I think that is where working with someone much more experienced is very beneficial. You aren't going to win. You don't have a choice, or really any control over how well you do in the randori. So if you have someone clever coaching you, they will let you work your stuff, feed you responses, funnel your options, etc. Whereas if you are always sparring with guys at your level, it becomes a competitive dog fight too often. Or even if you are willing to work on things and get thrown and get up and go again, they might not be giving you a good look. I spend the majority of my time getting rag dolled around by my coaches, and then when I go with guys with my level/experience, it is much much easier to implement things I've been working on, than it would have been by trying to develop those techniques with my peers.
     
    #1053
  14. Thycidides Blue Belt

    Thycidides
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    This weekend I worked on some no gi takedowns and felt more comfortable going for a single leg than going for a upper body throw , but I'm way better at defending upper body attacks than leg takedowns.

    Hard to know what approach to take in a no gi match I'm training for.
     
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  15. QingTian Purple Belt

    QingTian
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    Step 1: Learn to perform the throws technically correct in static positions
    Step 2: Learn methods to open up uke for attack for your technique
    Step 3: Post randori videos of yourself

    I have a strong suspicion #1 and #2 have not been worked on, so there really is little I can help with the randori side. The cold hard truth is that every throw/takedown you did was the result of poor balance of uke. I'd encourage you to study / post videos related to #1 and #2 instead.

    Sorry to be harsh but you keep focusing on randori results.
     
    #1055
  16. Thycidides Blue Belt

    Thycidides
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    Ok next time I will post a video of a static throw and one where i use an entry.
     
    #1056
  17. RJ Green Black Belt

    RJ Green
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    i was gonna test for shodan next week, but i think i'll put it off until the spring. i've got a few ukes i could just throw through nage-no-kata but none of them have had time outside of practice to dial it in with me, and i don't want to just huck someone into those suplexes and hope for the best.

    plus, i mean, after 12 years what's 3 months?
     
    #1057
  18. QingTian Purple Belt

    QingTian
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    Is the kata test just a formality (I dunno, never done one)? I mean, most people perform it passably right? I get wanted to put on your best show, but ...
     
    #1058
  19. RJ Green Black Belt

    RJ Green
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    yeah, it's pretty much a formality, but it's also to demonstrate my technical ability ya know? i don't just want it to be 'passable.'

    i've probably done enough to earn the rank at this point but i still don't wanna phone in what's probably my final testing...
     
    #1059
  20. Russky Green Belt

    Russky
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    12 years non-stop? Wow
     
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