Official Judo Thread XI: Olympic Travesty Edition | Page 45

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Zankou, Aug 6, 2016.

  1. BKR Orange Belt

    BKR
    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    Messages:
    299
    Likes Received:
    18

    Most in your experience, which is not a lot of experience.

    I'm going to guess your limited view of Judo is mostly recreational judo clubs. Truly competitive programs will have be running a periodized program of technical and physical training.

    In fact, recreational clubs could be run that way, but most Judo coaches in the USA are not professional coaches, and likely lack the training to do so.
     
    #881
    Kbits and RJ Green like this.
  2. BKR Orange Belt

    BKR
    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    Messages:
    299
    Likes Received:
    18
    Physical literacy is both general and sport specific, for sure. One issue I run into is that people often expect something like "instant success" in whatever they are doing.

    So being able to jump, crawl, hop (one leg, two legs, bunny, etc.), roll, skip, etc are fundamentals of human movement. Then there are more specialized, compound movements of a specific sport, Judo in this case. Which are made up of more specific versions of the fundamentals of human movement (physical literacy).

    So a guy can do O Goshi with uke walking right at him, and so thinks he has mastered O Goshi. I see this pretty often even when teaching competitive teenagers, although with time they start to get the point you made in your post. The various sutemi waza come to mind as a good example.
     
    #882
    RJ Green likes this.
  3. Thycidides Blue Belt

    Thycidides
    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2011
    Messages:
    653
    Likes Received:
    114
    Yeah that is what I'm getting at... most clubs in USA are not run by professional coaches and most students are not driven to compete or really push themselves.

    However, my old boxing coach and current Mauy Thai coaches are not professionals either and they tell people to jump rope, do calisthenics and run. . Also the athletic young people are in the Mauy Thai program not the judo program. The two share the same time slot at my rather large BJJ/ Mauy Thai gym.

    Of course the Mauy Thai program also suffers a bit from move of the week syndrome, but there are more classes so seems less of a problem.



    This is a bit of a joke but, I think it has something to do with the gi, Somehow people think wearing a gi makes the activity less athletically challenging and more suitable for 35 year olds
     
    #883
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2017
  4. QingTian Purple Belt

    QingTian
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2003
    Messages:
    2,251
    Likes Received:
    114
    I know you are frustrated but complaining isn't going to change the instruction you have available. You don't need someone to tell you to work out outside the gym, nor do you need someone to teach you Judo. What you need to do is get on the mat and do work. As it turns out, you have a big mat area and lots of partners, so you are actually better off than many places.
     
    #884
    Franklegit and RJ Green like this.
  5. RJ Green Black Belt

    RJ Green
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    Messages:
    5,107
    Likes Received:
    1,393
    Location:
    Armbar, Iowa
    Sandbaggin til Fall. I should've tested at the end of April but I tore my abs at the end of January and kept aggravating the injury while teaching the university class. I didn't get back to training hard until the end of March. I've been putting in 3-4 sessions per week all Summer and that'll bump up to like 5-7 in the Fall. We've got a two-time bronze medalist from Korea teaching/training with us for the next year or two and she's got impeccable ashiwaza so I'm really stoked about that opportunity.
     
    #885
    Rebelfett and Franklegit like this.
  6. Ippy Ik ben Groot.

    Ippy
    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2006
    Messages:
    16,430
    Likes Received:
    4,342
    Location:
    ¬___¬
    Niceeeeee...
     
    #886
  7. Thycidides Blue Belt

    Thycidides
    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2011
    Messages:
    653
    Likes Received:
    114

    This is true, although I only have 6-8 training partners for the most part. Also the mats kind of suck. But it could be worse!
     
    #887
  8. QingTian Purple Belt

    QingTian
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2003
    Messages:
    2,251
    Likes Received:
    114
    I still say what you really need is to settle on a throw to work on. It doesn't matter if class is move-of-the-week - that's still good for broad knowledge. What counts is you figuring out what it takes to make a throw work in randori. Once you learn one, more will come. But as it stands it's clear you do not have much of a game plan, and that's because you need the fundamentals.

    By fundamentals I mean knowing how to open up uke with basic grips and techniques. Not trying for surprise or trick techniques (you are stopping short on your seoi and trying drag downs because you are rushing to finish). But if you knew how to make kuzushi and control uke, you would have plenty of time to finish.

    If your instruction isn't helping, throw up videos of you drilling the throw and doing it in randori. Lots of people here are willing to help.
     
    #888
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017
    RJ Green likes this.
  9. Kbits Orange Belt

    Kbits
    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2014
    Messages:
    481
    Likes Received:
    28
    Location:
    Australia
    Do adults need to be told to do these things or can we assume they have some modicum of common sense? I'm always happy to provide info to those that ask but I'm not there as a PE teacher, I'm a judo coach.

    As for "move of the week", there's a reason this happens. Either it's simply not knowing any better OR it's knowing very well but trying to entertain the masses with novelty.

    Guess what - not everyone wants to do
    10000 progressive reps of uchimata over the next 4 weeks. Not everyone bothers to show up for every class. Most people want to train, sweat and have a little fun.

    As a 40 year old, I love that you think 35 year olds are somehow over the hill. That's just adorable.

    MT is more popular than Judo because Judo sucks at marketing and sucks at retention of adults (for various reasons).
     
    #889
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017
    Ivan Moser likes this.
  10. Thycidides Blue Belt

    Thycidides
    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2011
    Messages:
    653
    Likes Received:
    114
    35 is a bit over the hill for an adult with no grappling background to start training judo isn't it? That person can't take the throws very well and so on. I'd like you to hear why you think MT is more successful and what judo could do to be more popular however.
     
    #890
  11. Thycidides Blue Belt

    Thycidides
    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2011
    Messages:
    653
    Likes Received:
    114
    Yeah, one problem is feels like I have do a different throw and grip for different body types. And people try like hell to avoid sieonage so its hard to tell if I'm doing it well or not. But you're right I should work on generating kuzushi etc rather than trying to drag people to the ground.
     
    #891
  12. QingTian Purple Belt

    QingTian
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2003
    Messages:
    2,251
    Likes Received:
    114
    I think the Ippon Masterclass book for Uchimata is the best book for the skinny on this subject. It shows how to adapt one throw for all sizes and stances. It will take a long time to digest it all.

    I don't remember but the Seoinage book might be good as well. Try it out.

    Not all of them were useful to me, but the Uchimata book stands out.
     
    #892
    Rebelfett likes this.
  13. QingTian Purple Belt

    QingTian
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2003
    Messages:
    2,251
    Likes Received:
    114
    Depends if they were an athlete elsewhere. There are some ex-athletes that would even give (smaller and older) black belts a hard time.
     
    #893
  14. Thycidides Blue Belt

    Thycidides
    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2011
    Messages:
    653
    Likes Received:
    114
    No the people I'm thinking about weren't very athletic in any way. In fact one is 200 pounds and 5' 7. Another is taller than that but same weight and clumsy. Even drilling throws with these two guys is hard because they are so big and do not want to move.

    I actually spent some time training at another club with college students and had much more success even though some of them were also heavy and/or tall. They just moved better and were able to take a fall despite also being new to judo.

    Alas the college club no longer meets in the summer.
     
    #894
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017
  15. Kbits Orange Belt

    Kbits
    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2014
    Messages:
    481
    Likes Received:
    28
    Location:
    Australia
    It's too old to become an Olympian from scratch....but otherwise, no. Judo isn't/wasn't ever envisioned just for the young.

    (Though - IIRC - Kano did recommend that the over 40 set give away randori and concentrate on kata)

    Yet another argument for the liberal use of crashpad for training adults, I sez.

    Dave has talked about this a bunch of times on the judo chop suey podcast. Check out the following episode. If you open it up on Youtube, you can see the exact timings for different subsections (eg: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is succeeding where Judo is failing among adults (21:57).)

     
    #895
  16. Kbits Orange Belt

    Kbits
    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2014
    Messages:
    481
    Likes Received:
    28
    Location:
    Australia
    God damn...how good are kettlebells for judoka? They're like fucking magic, that's how good. "Simple and Sinister" (TGUs and Swings) is doing some amazing things for old injuries.

    All hail Pavel.
     
    #896
  17. Kbits Orange Belt

    Kbits
    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2014
    Messages:
    481
    Likes Received:
    28
    Location:
    Australia
    Look at what popped up on my YT carousel

     
    #897
    ArtemV likes this.
  18. RJ Green Black Belt

    RJ Green
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    Messages:
    5,107
    Likes Received:
    1,393
    Location:
    Armbar, Iowa
    not too shabby. he's got good balance for a lunk. that lateral drop wasn't bad for a geezer. i only watched the randori so i have no idea what he was yammering about for most of the video.
     
    #898
  19. Kbits Orange Belt

    Kbits
    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2014
    Messages:
    481
    Likes Received:
    28
    Location:
    Australia
    No yammaring to be found. I also landed one of these thanks to Dan last week. It's the end of times, I tell you

    [​IMG]
     
    #899
  20. RJ Green Black Belt

    RJ Green
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    Messages:
    5,107
    Likes Received:
    1,393
    Location:
    Armbar, Iowa
    he's got some great stuff from kesa and side control
     
    #900

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "fd5733925866a04e50edd70f38dfaa35"
monitoring_string = "603ac9fff68f23709f2a42bf5e29272b"