Official Judo Thread

[Kbits]

This?




Avoid makikomi throws. Avoid sutemi waza. These throws are the express elevator to the 3rd floor. If you ever want to get to the penthouse, learn the basics first.

Makikomi and sutemi allow you to throw people with dog shit throws ...and once you experience the rush of that, you will stymie progress.

If you're being forced to learn this, ok, pay it lip service and then get back to your 3-6 month plan

 

[Kbits]

Going through my Vimeo account, saw the following. Look at this naughty beginner cocking his hip like that. Doesn't he know how naughty and beginnery he is? Filthy samboist!

 

[Thycidides]

This?




Avoid makikomi throws. Avoid sutemi waza. These throws are the express elevator to the 3rd floor. If you ever want to get to the penthouse, learn the basics first.

Makikomi and sutemi allow you to throw people with dog shit throws ...and once you experience the rush of that, you will stymie progress.

Yeah that is it.

I don't see what the problem is as long as I can get the guy down and not expose my back.

My main focus is bjj. You said yourself that takedowns and throws in bjj tend to look rough and you compromised and taught sutemi waza to bjj people

Hip throws are fine in Sambo and judo as there is the jacket, no points for taking the back and limited time spent on the ground.

In bjj they are a high risk low reward.

 

[QingTian]

Not that I particularly think the underhook is a great grip for sweeps but yeah that's less likely to get your back taken. That's not a makikomi though (wind up roll) which is why you are hearing different things here.

 

[Kbits]

Yeah that is it.

I don't see what the problem is as long as I can get the guy down and not expose my back.

My main focus is bjj. You said yourself that takedowns and throws in bjj tend to look rough and you compromised and taught sutemi waza to bjj people

Hip throws are fine in Sambo and judo as there is the jacket, no points for taking the back and limited time spent on the ground.

In bjj they are a high risk low reward.

Ok then. Sounds like you're all set.

PS: given what you've written above, I'm not even sure why you're bothering with judo, let alone trying to adapt judo for BJJ (which is a whole other ball of wax, dependant on knowing both)

Just do more BJJ and get use to "skilful transitions into newaza". Ankle pick, collar drag, pull guard. It's more efficient for what you're after.

PPS: Hip throws are only risky when you have bad hip throws.

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

This?




Avoid makikomi throws. Avoid sutemi waza. These throws are the express elevator to the 3rd floor. If you ever want to get to the penthouse, learn the basics first.

Makikomi and sutemi allow you to throw people with dog shit throws ...and once you experience the rush of that, you will stymie progress.

If you're being forced to learn this, ok, pay it lip service and then get back to your 3-6 month plan

That advice really depends on the built, weight category and bunch of physical atributes of a judo player.
Sutemis are widely used in judo and all throwing sports.
Some of the big throws in judo are sutemis (uranage, sasae, drop seoi and many others) and all of them are match winning, part of champions arsenal throws.
Judo is what YOU make out of it. Not what someone tells you it is.
Learn a throw, that matches your physical abillities, sharpen it until you best everyone. Repeat in competitions and win matches.
Who cares if you win by uchimata or a huge uranage/ sasae? The one, who you just beat?

 

[BKR]

Well one month will be ways to counter or negate a stiff arm and " break a frame", another will be how to use foot work to set up a footsweep or " take a line. Like i said before its taught similar to BJJ.

Regarding the ko ouchi makikomi, the version im being taught relies on me getting an arm drag and switching to a underhook with my right hand to negate the back take. It is an awkward transition, but Im not sure of a better throw,

I'm imagining that you arm drag and trap the arm between your bodies, then go for the kouchi makikomi after getting the underhook...

Interesting, but reads a little awkward to me. Not particularly standard Judo.

Ok that's a little clearer on the "concepts", thanks.

I will say that to learn those things and be able to apply them in randori, and then shiai, is not a simple thing to do. You have to do progressive resistance drilling, and a LOT of it, then do randori, then shiai, and iterate the process with modifications developed from feedback (what works/does not work in randori/shiai).

You also have to be able to perform the throws (and groundwork) you are using reasonably well on a moving, cooperative uke. Not a jumping uke, just one that will take the fall for you if you apply the technique or sequence (grip- move-throw or move-grip-move-throw) etc.

And if you do not have good fundamentals (of Judo-grip, posture, movement) it takes even longer.

 

[Thycidides]

Ok then. Sounds like you're all set.

PS: given what you've written above, I'm not even sure why you're bothering with judo, let alone trying to adapt judo for BJJ (which is a whole other ball of wax, dependant on knowing both)

Just do more BJJ and get use to "skilful transitions into newaza". Ankle pick, collar drag, pull guard. It's more efficient for what you're after.

PPS: Hip throws are only risky when you have bad hip throws.

I mostly do judo because it is offered 2 nights a week at my BJJ gym and there is no other grappling class in that time slot.

To be honest It would be better if the class was more wrestling focused but this gym caters to people over 30 and wrestling tends to be hard on the knees and leads to injuries.

 

[RJ Green]

I mostly do judo because it is offered 2 nights a week at my BJJ gym and there is no other grappling class in that time slot.

you judo yes or you judo no. no judo guess so.

 

[BKR]

I really like the Canadian LTAD model (there are others too...but I like the Canadian one the best).

As you know, Judo has a pipeline issue. Lots of kids, cadets....huge gap....then veterans returning to judo (often bringing their kids along with them). Lots of problems with that not least of which is adult drop out due to poor GPP.

I really do think the LTAD model (which focuses on fun, fitness and skill development across the lifespan) is important...much more so than just belts or just shiai.

OTOH, I do think seniors need to be recognized for what they do (I've written elsewhere about my Masters level points not counting towards shodan).

One of the things I liked about training in Japan was the focus on tumbling / gymnastics as part of the warm up. I might get the guys to do more of that today...though I did get accused of teaching breakdancing last week (made them do sit outs, rolls, getting up from turtle etc).

I'd have never gotten to sandan if points from masters competition didn't count. I competed at senior nationals in Masters once I got over 30, but still competed in local and regional shiai in regular divisions.

Judo classes for adults who have never done Judo before have to have different processes and expectations for competition, rank progression, etc.

We do tumbling as part of warmup for every class.

Breakdancing would be great for Judo, tell those pussies to man up. Besides, zubon are pretty close to parachute pants anyway, right?

 

[Kbits]

Nice. Niiice

 

[Kbits]

That advice really depends on the built, weight category and bunch of physical atributes of a judo player.
Sutemis are widely used in judo and all throwing sports.
Some of the big throws in judo are sutemis (uranage, sasae, drop seoi and many others) and all of them are match winning, part of champions arsenal throws.
Judo is what YOU make out of it. Not what someone tells you it is.
Learn a throw, that matches your physical abillities, sharpen it until you best everyone. Repeat in competitions and win matches.
Who cares if you win by uchimata or a huge uranage/ sasae? The one, who you just beat?

Yes, very true....but he's a newer student / beginner (see below). There are a lot of fundamentals missing here that need to be developed to progress judo...fundamentals that are not going to get better if the go to is "fall on ass, drag them down with you".



(Until Thycidides clarified that he was more focused on bjj than judo, it wasn't clear what his intention was)

For Bjj, developing one good, clean sutemi would maybe be enough. But only doing sutemi's (at the expense of everything else) is a bad idea for someone who wants to learn more than one throw or how to deal with people who know more than one throw.

Sutemi waza works - very well - even when it's not so good. But if that's all you've got....

It's like a judoka who can only do kesa gatame and turtle. That works very well, too....in some limited circumstances.

 

[Kbits]

I mostly do judo because it is offered 2 nights a week at my BJJ gym and there is no other grappling class in that time slot.

To be honest It would be better if the class was more wrestling focused but this gym caters to people over 30 and wrestling tends to be hard on the knees and leads to injuries.

I spent 3 or so months wrestling (so not a lot) about 15 years ago. It's definitely a different sort of body use to judo.

I hated (and still hate) penetration steps; just don't agree with my legs at all. Only later did I find out about hand-fighting and other non-shoot options.

Judo's pretty bad on the knees too...

 

[Kbits]

I'd have never gotten to sandan if points from masters competition didn't count. I competed at senior nationals in Masters once I got over 30, but still competed in local and regional shiai in regular divisions.

Judo classes for adults who have never done Judo before have to have different processes and expectations for competition, rank progression, etc.

We do tumbling as part of warmup for every class.

Breakdancing would be great for Judo, tell those pussies to man up. Besides, zubon are pretty close to parachute pants anyway, right?

I've been told that because some of us kicked up some noise, they will consider allowing masters points to count. Consider.

Frankly, I would have preferred to go to Osaka and fight batsugun (because guess what else they don't do here ) but it looks like that option is off the table now too.

Bit of a shit-show. My next focus is to fix my knee and then get back into regular training....then get to the point where I can do 4, 5 or 6 sessions a week.

PS: If it's any consolation, I made them do 'piggy in the middle' uchikomi today; losing team had to do a sexy dance. All I can say is Bluesbreaker is awesome at dabbing...but I think they would prefer to do pushups and situps instead as punishment.

 

[Kbits]

Some nice no gi judo from Denis Zenikov



What's that I see at 7:30?

#TeGurmaEverything #TeGurumaCuresCancer

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

Yes, very true....but he's a newer student / beginner (see below). There are a lot of fundamentals missing here that need to be developed to progress judo...fundamentals that are not going to get better if the go to is "fall on ass, drag them down with you".



(Until Thycidides clarified that he was more focused on bjj than judo, it wasn't clear what his intention was)

For Bjj, developing one good, clean sutemi would maybe be enough. But only doing sutemi's (at the expense of everything else) is a bad idea for someone who wants to learn more than one throw or how to deal with people who know more than one throw.

Sutemi waza works - very well - even when it's not so good. But if that's all you've got....

It's like a judoka who can only do kesa gatame and turtle. That works very well, too....in some limited circumstances.

I teach sasae and drop seoi to beginners, while also teaching back arching, so within a month they are ready to suplex/ lateral drop and etc.
That been said, in the posted video I didnt see any sutemis attempts. Grabbing and sitting down is not a throw of any kind.

 

[BKR]

Nice. Niiice

Interesting, nice variation on the entry. I teach the movement using the knee, but for several different attacks.

 

[Thycidides]

I posted a more recent example of me at a judo tournament. If you guys could critique this one it would be helpful. I thought I had improved some in the time between., but maybe not





Does any of this look like judo or am I just falling down?

 

[Kbits]

Honestly? Slightly better but mostly still just falling down. You literally fall down by yourself near the start. Midway through the match there's a throw you attempt that is just you sitting down Infront of him (was that meant to be sumi?) and pulling him almost on top of you (lucky he didn't take tate-shiho). There's also an exchange after where you attempt to double leg him while he's up and you're on the ground that should technically be a shido against you.​

The main throw you attempt (the dropping seio of sorts) has good grip and some idea but you don't commit to it. The direction is also off. I get the feeling your brain has clicked into "grip and down on an angle", but there's more to it than that for the drop seoi. You do have a good "body configuration" when you attempt this in some of your other videos but commitment isn't there and throw direction/opportunity is wrong.

What's really letting you down is your feet / stepping. You're somehow ponderously heavy in a way that I can't quite explain.

You've had three of us here tell you pretty much the same thing and suggest some options for you. Will be curious to see where you go next.

TL;DR: if you want to improve your judo, improve your foot speed and stop dropping.

 

[Kbits]

Interesting, nice variation on the entry. I teach the movement using the knee, but for several different attacks.

Yeah, I've never seen sankaku like this. It looks aces.

As you know, sankaku is usually from the front , which I hate doing. It always feels like I'm going to roll an ankle doing it. Plus it results in a tangle of limbs that make it difficult to transition out of. To be fair, my irrational dislike of it may be blinding me some here I can and do use sankaku from guard a fair bit (or did....might have to give it away now due to knee).

I think this sort of entry would work well (pedagogically) with the Bischof roll series, as both of them are reliant on swinging a shin under yourself, momentum transfer etc. Seeing I taught them the Bischof, they should hopefully pick this up faster.