Official Judo Thread XI: Olympic Travesty Edition | Page 32

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Zankou, Aug 6, 2016.

  1. QingTian Purple Belt

    QingTian
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2003
    Messages:
    2,179
    Likes Received:
    65
    I don't know how common it is in Japanese, but the character is 摔

    Regardless if 摔 or suramu, it is a better description of Judo techniques.
     
    #621
  2. QingTian Purple Belt

    QingTian
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2003
    Messages:
    2,179
    Likes Received:
    65
    In most of those throws you are not supposed to be carrying to full weight of uke. It only looks like you are, but actually you are not (should not be) because one side of uke is going down as you lift the other side. You are just the pivot point.

    Obviously you can add more power to it and lift uke completely, but it is not a strict requirement.

    Even ura nage, if performed with the right placement in sacrifice motion, much of your power is in the horizontal direction and the lifting part lifts uke's bottom half like a lever.
     
    #622
  3. Kbits Orange Belt

    Kbits
    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2014
    Messages:
    453
    Likes Received:
    20
    Location:
    Australia
    God damn, how good is Superstar Judo? Now, if they only allowed (1) auto playing of saved lists (2) had an app with a chromecast feature
     
    #623
  4. Ivaylo Ivanov FICW President

    Ivaylo Ivanov
    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    2,306
    Likes Received:
    252
    Location:
    Bulgarium
    No!
    And I am saying that with the confidence of MA in japanese language and a professional referee, who works with rule sets in japanese on daily basis.
    The character you are quoting has no official use and is largely unknown in Japan.
     
    #624
  5. Uchi Mata Gold Belt

    Uchi Mata
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    17,394
    Likes Received:
    2,055
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    I always liked 'trip' myself. Doesn't apply to many throws for sure, but it capture the essence in many ways of what Judo should be. You're moving someone over/around a lever, whether that's your foot, your leg, or your hip, and you're trying to catch them when they're already moving so that you need to add as little force as possible to their momentum to cause them to be wheeled over.

    And I think you do carry uke's weight on many throws, but it's for as brief a second as possible as uke rolls over your hips or leg or what have you.
     
    #625
  6. Russky Blue Belt

    Russky
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2014
    Messages:
    870
    Likes Received:
    236
    Most throws you listed are performed as rotation around center of gravity and do not require lifting.

    Of course, if we take nage-no-kata version of kata guruma there is clear lifting before throwing. In real life there is hardly any lifting. Either drop under or using momentum.



    Same for seoi nage, tomoe nage, o goshi, etc. If you have to lift your entry into the throw is incorrect.
    But I think this is just terminology discussion. Lifting = moving opponent's center of gravity up in vertical direction.

    Here's a nice example of o goshi. I do not see any "lifting" there except for the initial sleeve pull.

     
    #626
    Bluesbreaker likes this.
  7. QingTian Purple Belt

    QingTian
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2003
    Messages:
    2,179
    Likes Received:
    65
    I was not saying it had official use. I was saying a better character was available.

    Kano was educated in Chinese classics and would have likely known the character. Maybe it was decided to use Nageru if that was the common terminology.
     
    #627
  8. QingTian Purple Belt

    QingTian
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2003
    Messages:
    2,179
    Likes Received:
    65
    Nice explanation Russky.
     
    #628
  9. Ivaylo Ivanov FICW President

    Ivaylo Ivanov
    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    2,306
    Likes Received:
    252
    Location:
    Bulgarium
    Agaon, No.
    Japanese do not use that character and word to describe either slam or a throw.
    What Kano had in mind, he already stated. No need of interpretations from non- specialists.
    I dont know why are you doing this, but its not gonna pass in any way possible. Just drop it
     
    #629
  10. RJ Green YAY JUDO!!!

    RJ Green
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    Messages:
    4,908
    Likes Received:
    1,093
    Location:
    Armbar, Iowa
    i think you need your eyes checked Russky. what's tori doing with her ass if she's not lifting?
     
    #630
  11. Russky Blue Belt

    Russky
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2014
    Messages:
    870
    Likes Received:
    236
    For most human bodies (yours excluded) center of mass is located above the ass. She is forcing uke's body to spin around center of mass rather than lifting and dropping it down.
     
    #631
    QingTian likes this.
  12. QingTian Purple Belt

    QingTian
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2003
    Messages:
    2,179
    Likes Received:
    65
    I did not say whether the Japanese used it or not; in fact I said likely not. Regardless I know the meaning of the character, and it is better suited.

    Maybe instead of attacking what you think I know as a "non-specialist", you should fix your English comprehension. You have mis-read what I wrote several times already, not only recently.
     
    #632
  13. Ivaylo Ivanov FICW President

    Ivaylo Ivanov
    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    2,306
    Likes Received:
    252
    Location:
    Bulgarium
    Yeah, let me see what I misread- the fact you want to build a case around your idea, that a dead person "might had this in mind" and then state, that entire debate, regarding judo has been wrong all along, because the proper word for slam is (a word that is not even japanese) , that is better suited to describe slam in japanese and you dare state this with a zero knowledge of the language.
    Comprehension, my friend, is my last problem in this discussion.
     
    #633
  14. QingTian Purple Belt

    QingTian
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2003
    Messages:
    2,179
    Likes Received:
    65
    You are right, comprehension is the last of your problems. Your problem is whatever it is in your life that caused you to bounce from one country to another, and become upset when your host culture's views do not match your own.

    You made a mountain out of a molehill over my comments, because you perceive me to be some Japanese Judo traditionalist, and were only too happy to show you know better. But of course everything you wrote was tangent to my point, in whatever language that may be used.
     
    #634
  15. Ivaylo Ivanov FICW President

    Ivaylo Ivanov
    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    2,306
    Likes Received:
    252
    Location:
    Bulgarium
    Some people travel the world, do business, get hired by international corporations, visit plenty of places, experience things first hand.

    Some people sit on their ass and imagine how things are on the other side of the planet.

    Some people go to a restaurant, order a dish and give their honest comment about it, including good and bad points, offering suggestions to make things better.

    Some people would eat up a bowl of roten ingredients and praise it, because they have been TOLD its great, then have a diarrhea for a week.

    Some people would share their experience from around the world, as it is, for free, on the internet.

    Some people would get offended by those people, because they are shattering the fake image they have made of them selves, in order to be presented as wise and knowledgeble.

    Dear QingTian, people are using the internet for many reasons, such as obtaining knowledge, have fun, entertainment.
    My dialogues with you give me nothing worth my time. As such, my time and energy are a waste.
    And it has been like that for all the years I have been on F12.
    Logical decision for me is to add you to the slowly growing group of lost souls, called Ignore List and forget you ever existed.
    Have fun in your future endeavours.
     
    #635
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2017
    RJ Green likes this.
  16. Kbits Orange Belt

    Kbits
    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2014
    Messages:
    453
    Likes Received:
    20
    Location:
    Australia
    A training partner managed to fuck up my knee earlier this year, as I was demonstrating a technique. Went and got an MRI and it read like a horror show, the highlights of which were
    • Partially torn ACL
    • Tears in both Meniscii
    • Fissuring of joint cartilage
    • Fissuring of patella lining cartilage
    • Compacted fracture of femur
    Of course, the ortho wants to go in and snip things. The orthopedic tests were inconclusive (as in, it wasn't loose) and the MRI report didn't qualify WTF "partially torn" meant as a %, so I opted to get a second opinion.

    Anyway, I popped out today to the local PRP clinic. The guy compared the "good knee" to the "bad knee"...if anything, the "good knee" was looser than the bad.
    Given the choice between losing another slice of hamstring to make an ACL or getting a bunch of platelets injected into the torn strand, I'm opting to try the latter before the former.

    I think the biggest issue will be the amount of blood they need to siphon off for each of the three injections (two weeks apart). It's about 6 vials each time but I'm squeamish as fuck
     
    #636
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2017
    Bluesbreaker likes this.
  17. Bluesbreaker Brown Belt

    Bluesbreaker
    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2008
    Messages:
    4,263
    Likes Received:
    207
    At least you have Cathy on the sidelines with you now!
     
    #637
  18. Emanuele Orange Belt

    Emanuele
    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Messages:
    301
    Likes Received:
    24
    Location:
    Italy
    A mouring for judo, last week sensei Shoji Sugiyama died in Turim, Italy at 84 years old.
    He left Japan in 1958 to stay two years in Paris, and then in 1960 he relocated in Turin.
    He was 9th dan in judo, 9th dan in aikido, 7th dan in shotokan karate and 6th in iaido.
     
    #638
  19. ArtemV Red Belt

    ArtemV
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2014
    Messages:
    9,222
    Likes Received:
    2,817
    Location:
    San Diego/Moscow
    I miss yuko and wazari scores... I dislike how 10 = an ippon score now lol. 1, 10 and 100 scores seemed better. But whatever, this Baku event has had a good day one.
     
    #639
  20. QingTian Purple Belt

    QingTian
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2003
    Messages:
    2,179
    Likes Received:
    65
    I was going to ignore what Ivaylo said as not worth my time, but I remembered he was a guy who founded his own organization and peddles camps to relative beginners. I'm all for entrepreneurship but it's funny someone like that would accuse me of delusions of grandeur.
     
    #640

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "fd5733925866a04e50edd70f38dfaa35"
monitoring_string = "603ac9fff68f23709f2a42bf5e29272b"