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Official Judo Thread
- Thread starter Zankou
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Proper uchikomis help, but when you're a beginner you're not doing it properly and are just building bad habits.
I felt like I just recently started to get the sublties and uchikomi has helped my technique to become more economical, with the added bonus of not wearing my old busted ass out.
Did judo for the first time in a while after a year of BJJ
Things I've noticed:
My footwork is lazy now, being the "judo guy" at BJJ I didn't have to be as precise and quick....against an experienced shodan and godan.....I felt like a statue
My newaza was more methodical and effective, but the instinctual urgency to escape osekomi has been trained away, not a good thing when top man doesn't have to risk a transition to a sub when pinning you and settles in.
Osoto is still there
Sumi is still there
Ukemi is still there (thankfully)
My judo conditioning is gone.....different pace entirely
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right. Im held to a different standard than the new guys. Coach told me to do uchikomi because I need to work on subtlety and footwork.
So in a way my frustration means that im getting better and the focus on uchikomi means that my coach likes to teach a relatively advanced curriculum.
So in a way my frustration means that im getting better and the focus on uchikomi means that my coach likes to teach a relatively advanced curriculum.
I don't think uchikomi really helped me until around shodan level. Even then it was only a handful of throws. Until you really get a throw, you are better off getting feedback by trying to throw. Uchikomi is about honing what you need to accomplish to set up a throw - what do you do if you don't really know what you need?
Also, real uchikomi is HARD work. There is no point in dancing in and out. The translated meaning is something like hammering it out.
Also, real uchikomi is HARD work. There is no point in dancing in and out. The translated meaning is something like hammering it out.
I'd counter that tani otoshi is mechanically simple and is more a matter of spotting opportunity, and tomoe nage is that plus manipulating uke beyond what uchikomi practices.
But, people who do these throws well certainly got good by doing uchikomi on other throws. Uchikomi develops control using the gi.
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OK, using myself as an example then; one of my favorite throws was uchi mata but the mechanical pattern and grip of how I used it was very different from the uchi komi pattern. My kosoto gake was very good but I never trained uchikomi for it and not for my ura nage or utsuri goshi either. I did plenty of uchikomis for osoto gari but I throwed osoto otoshi instead in competition.
Uchi komi is overrated, I'm not sure whether it works at all. ..
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Very good, thanks for asking. I use a soft elbow brace because it has padding to protect the area where the screws and plate are just below the skin (for errant footsweeps) and my partners at the BJJ club are very cool about babying any ankle attacks on that leg.
Mentally I don't counter standing when that foot is entangled/blocked like I used to and if it starts to twist I bail. Even if it gives some of my Team the bragging rights to say they took the "Judo guy" down ( I know they're not serious....but it is kind of an honor for a WB to have a target on his backlike that, it I help them have better tds better for the team)
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Uchi komi is overrated, I'm not sure whether it works at all. ..
i have no idea why people do uchi Komi before nage Komi. that's like talking about beef Wellington to someone who can't make ramen.
"hey kid! fuck this up 10,000 times! we'll call it practice!"
you gotta take those big falls soon. that's how you know you're gonna quit. it's not for everybody. it's amazing to me how people will get up through the citrus belts and still be reluctant to fall.
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You probably outrank me me but can I ask yours? I'm a nikyu with 6 years (non consecutive...moving every three-four years sucks! And so does long term injury)
Uchikomi has helped me more with my non-go to throws, to help me build a better tool bag. When I'm cold, slacking, or just frustrated I'll uchikomi osoto to feel good, but otherwise I use it to build confidence and proficiency in throws I don't use that often live...in case I have to...
Uchimata is the biggest example, mine sucked going live, I tried to abandon it, a coach of mine started having me do uchikomi it and while circumstances have prevented me from doing judo lately, I'm confident hitting it in BJJ because of it.
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I'm a godan and I started judo when I was nine years old, I have competed in high level tournaments, representing an European country. I have also coached but consider myself now retired even if I still train most days.
People tend to forget how specific movements are, so I'm not sure how uchikomi can develop or improve skills at all, unless you do it exactly the same way in randori as in uchikomi.
That said; uchikomi may be useful as a general warmup to prepare nervous system for pulling and pushing in randori or shiai, but I seriously doubt that it makes you better for throwing as such...
OK, using myself as an example then; one of my favorite throws was uchi mata but the mechanical pattern and grip of how I used it was very different from the uchi komi pattern. My kosoto gake was very good but I never trained uchikomi for it and not for my ura nage or utsuri goshi either. I did plenty of uchikomis for osoto gari but I throwed osoto otoshi instead in competition.
Uchi komi is overrated, I'm not sure whether it works at all. ..
How would you judge it as working? Serious question. People have different goals for doing them, or none at all. Sometimes it's no more than an aerobic exercise. Some think it'll speed up their entry. Some think it'll improve their throwing (but how???). I like uchikomi to practice the subtle control points for the throw, efficiently, so I don't have to wait for uke to get up every time.
For the throws you listed, I may have no use for uchikomi either. Some are not so subtle, and others depend on how you do them or the grip you take. Mainly, the lapel grip is complex and is most suited for uchikomi.
Don't get me wrong. I don't think you need tons of uchikomi. Unless I have something in mind to work on, I'd rather do something else. It's good to get lots of people on the mat warmed up for randori.
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As I mentioned above; it may work as a general preperation for pulling-pushing etc. but if it makes us technical better for throws then it never worked well for me, because I did tons of uchikomi when I competed and I never noticed much carryover for throwing since I became very good doing uchikomi on the "wrong" throws that I never managed to use well in randori/shiai and vice versa. I cannot see any good reasons why uchikomi should make you more efficient for throwing either - except for getting nervous system prepared for the pulling-pushing action related to kuzushi.
Why should nagekomi make you better at throwing either then? After all it doesn't match application in randori either.
There is a point during entry of the throw, transitioning to kake, where ideally you have such control over uke that no matter what you are going to throw for ippon. That's what I practice uchikomi for.
It's better than nagekomi because you have enough experience to know when something will work well or not. Why waste time throwing then?
But that's only when you want to practice the entry.
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Nage komi has a certain degree of carryover since you are actually performing the full movement - especially if you practise it "yaku soku geiko" style - but the best way to become good for throwing in randori is to do tons of it against many partners of different size. Some people are "world champions" throwing in randori but not necessary the best in shiai though.
There are many different uchikomi styles, if you do it randori-esque lifting partner up on your hip etc. then there may be more carryover than doing it like most people usually practise it by moving mechanically or standing still. Personally I now think that I should have done far less uchikomi and more other stuff - but thats me lol...
His ears are a proof that is ground game is very good.
I agree, and it's a big problem for Judo in the West to not have many specialized drills. In Japan you can get away with it by having sheer mass of bodies to randori with, who also do not treat randori like shiai.
