Official Judo Thread II

[RJ Green]

Harai Goshi in the Nage no Kata is performed with an underhook. How much more canonical can it be? :icon_lol:

should i tip them out onto their toes and pause?

 

[nomoremondays]

Clearly the last two posts are in jest, but just in case somebody who is not familiar is reading; nage no kata is about principles. the harai goshi following the uki goshi is basically tori reacting to a failed attempt at another uki goshi after uke wises up to him. this time he uses a little help from his leg to send uke over. pretty much in line with what rj mentions in the previous page.

 

[Einarr]

Clearly the last two posts are in jest, but just in case somebody who is not familiar is reading; nage no kata is about principles. the harai goshi following the uki goshi is basically tori reacting to a failed attempt at another uki goshi after uke wises up to him. this time he uses a little help from his leg to send uke over. pretty much in line with what rj mentions in the previous page.

Did the laughing smiley give it away? :icon_chee

 

[Zankou]

Stupid question. Are you allowed to pass guard crouching on both feet in judo newaza, aka the best way used in modern BJJ competition, or is that crouching on both feet treated as "standing up" and requires a reset? In other words, are you going to get a reset if you pass in this style.

[YT]3EeC9PFaya8[/YT]

 

[seatea]

You are allowed to do that. Whether you get a ref who knows that is a different matter entirely.

 

[RJ Green]

if you threw someone into guard, stayed standing, and held their legs as you passed you'd be DQed. you have to both be on the ground doing newaza before it's okay. i guess.

then, like seatea said, you can standing pass, but most of the old guard would call matte and probably a pow-wow, since they're allergic to groundwork and wouldn't know what the fuck is going on.

also, there's video on the facebook freestyle judo page where a girl gets DQed for sweeping a standing opponent from guard. for grabbing her legs.

i'm to the point with the judo rules that i just train. i'm not doing heel hooks and shit, but the leg grab nonsense is awful. i te-guruma-ed the shit out of a stud white belt last week. the first words out of his mouth were 'that's not legal in a tournament.' my response was 'we're not at a tournament, we're learning judo.'

 

[nomoremondays]

Stupid question. Are you allowed to pass guard crouching on both feet in judo newaza, aka the best way used in modern BJJ competition, or is that crouching on both feet treated as "standing up" and requires a reset? In other words, are you going to get a reset if you pass in this style.

[YT]3EeC9PFaya8[/YT]

That exact video is ok.

 

[_Glorfindel_]

Guys, dont forget, there is Judo and sport Judo... ;-)

 

[shunyata]

Forgive my ignorance (I haven't kept up on IJF rules in their entirety since the 90's), but when exactly did bent arm locks become illegal?

/pours out a 40 for Ude Garama

 

[seatea]

Bent arm locks are not illegal. Locks attacking the shoulder are however.

Supposedly ude-garami attacks the elbow if done 'correctly', so it remains legal.

 

[shunyata]

Bent arm locks are not illegal. Locks attacking the shoulder are however.

Supposedly ude-garami attacks the elbow if done 'correctly', so it remains legal.

And what pray tell is the 'correct' way to finish it in comparison to the standard jiu jitsu finish?










This ambiguity, this is why we can't have nice things.

 

[seatea]

And what pray tell is the 'correct' way to finish it in comparison to the standard jiu jitsu finish?










This ambiguity, this is why we can't have nice things.

It's just another clumsy mess of a rule. It's most likely never been changed as it's not a rule that needs to be enforced regularly. You just don't see that many bent arm-locks in competitive judo.

All I know is that out of the hundreds of ude-garami's/gyaku-ude-garami's I've had put on me I don't recall any that have affected the elbow rather than the shoulder.

There is a similar confusion over bicep slicers.

 

[nomoremondays]

Forgive my ignorance (I haven't kept up on IJF rules in their entirety since the 90's), but when exactly did bent arm locks become illegal?

/pours out a 40 for Ude Garama

There has been no change in the rules since the 90's that affected kansetsu waza.

 

[shunyata]

There has been no change in the rules since the 90's that affected kansetsu waza.

I suppose I'm simply running into conflicting interpretations.

 

[ChainFlow]

I suppose I'm simply running into conflicting interpretations.

Yep.

There are ways to tell; I mean, if you're doing a kimura more like a hammerlock, it is probably a pure shoulder lock.

Basically, blatant pure shoulder locks are illegal and Ude garami is legal. But pure shoulder locks are really rare anyway, and mostly would just come up in a wrestling style turnover like a wrestling armbar or something. In which case they are still legal as long as you allow them to turn over to escape it (and give up the pin).

 

[nomoremondays]

I suppose I'm simply running into conflicting interpretations.

Pretty much. Here's some food for thought (or maybe something you are already aware of).
Joint locks were explicitly limited to elbows in 1925...Masahiko Kimura at that point had a grand total of one year judo training!
So if shoulder locks are not allowed where did he pick up his trademark technique!!

 

[Einarr]

Pretty much. Here's some food for thought (or maybe something you are already aware of).
Joint locks were explicitly limited to elbows in 1925...Masahiko Kimura at that point had a grand total of one year judo training!
So if shoulder locks are not allowed where did he pick up his trademark technique!!

BJJ? :icon_chee

 

[nomoremondays]

BJJ? :icon_chee

no. Billy Robinson!

 

[RJ Green]

Supposedly ude-garami attacks the elbow if done 'correctly', so it remains legal.

every time I've popped an arm with an Americana it was at the elbow.

 

[StefanoVersteeg]

Pretty much. Here's some food for thought (or maybe something you are already aware of).
Joint locks were explicitly limited to elbows in 1925...Masahiko Kimura at that point had a grand total of one year judo training!
So if shoulder locks are not allowed where did he pick up his trademark technique!!

Renato Laranja..

Number 1000!