Official AMD "Ryzen" CPU Discussion ***UPDATE #2: Intel Announces Ice Lake chips early*** | Page 25

Discussion in 'Video Game Forum' started by PEB, Nov 24, 2016.

  1. Madmick Stop Spoiling My TV Life (it's the one I like)

    Madmick
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    Keep in mind that we Americans tend to see cheaper prices than our European (or Canadian) peers by currency conversion. Converting that i3-8350K price would put it at $226, after all, not $199. Also, there's the fact that basically the MSRPs end up not mattering. The market and how gamers feel about the buys dictate deviations from those every single time, and immediately.

    I agree, it's definitely a competitive space, but I think that at least the i3 has some viability as a competitor: taking the place of the i5 line. One need only look at where the i5-7600K remains as a market value (against the already released Ryzen R5 processors) to confirm that. Ryzen basically knocked only $20-30 off its typical market value.

    The past few years the i3 line hasn't been a viable competitor at all. It's just been shit. The R5-1600 is definitely the more forward-looking option, particularly for overclockers, but for the moment, quad core still rules the porridge battle, and at those stock clocks and turbos (with whatever IPC gains we see) the i3-8350K should outperform the R5-1600 in pure gaming, across the gamut, even more significantly than the i5-7600K already does. So, in fact, if I had to make a prediction, if the i3-8350K debuts at an MSRP of $199, I predict we will see a rare market inflation of value. It will settle in above that price.

    On the whole, though, obviously, I've been voicing this perspective since Ryzen launched, so I agree with you. The R3-1200 and R5-1600 are the best values in their spaces.

    On the other hand, I don't think a ~$450 MSRP on the i7 hexacore is gonna cut it. That's the biggest price cut, by miles, and yet it's the one that won't hold up. One need only study where the i7-6800K ($320) and i7-6850K ($360) have settled in to confirm that: against the R7-1700 (~$290).

    The i7-8700K is basically a +100MHz Coffee Lake update of the i7-6800K, so it should offer even less of a stock improvement over that chip than the i3-8350K does over the i5-7600K. I don't deny that the allure of an Intel-class IPC hexacore chip greatly diminishes the allure of the R7-1700, as each core beyond the fourth adds a diminishing value, but $450 just isn't going to sell. If the motherboards are cheaper than the pricey LGA 2011 boards, then that should offset the cost, but those Broadwell-E chips are the existing indication of the market value of these upcoming Coffee Lake chips.

    If Intel isn't making a profit off the chips under $400, then this new i7 line could be in some real shit.
     
    #481
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  2. GhostZ06 Gold Belt

    GhostZ06
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    jesus christ, intels shitty pricing really pushes me into buying amd everytime, but this is what i want
     
    #482
  3. PEB Atomic Butt Drop Champ :)

    PEB
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    Even as positive news from vendors and testers it's not a happy place. I hear the CEO is taking a more hands on approach.

    Internally Ryzen developers understand IPC is still an issue and plan on ending it in early 2018. They said they are proud of their team but admit they need to stop looking at the whole Instructions Per Clock issue.

    They said Intel had many years to tweak their design and that they are going to top it in 2018. I guess they also bring together their teams weekly and go over various areas of development.
     
    #483
  4. jefferz Gold Belt

    jefferz
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    They have a long way to go if they want to beat intels IPC. I really hope they do though. 5ghz across 8/16 for sub $400 would be freakin amazing.




    A GTX1070ti has been spotted
    https://www.pcper.com/news/Graphics-Cards/wild-GTX-1070-Ti-appears
     
    #484
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  5. PEB Atomic Butt Drop Champ :)

    PEB
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    They continue to lose the IPC war and I think I know the problem they are fighting a war on two fronts. NVIDIA bragged their new GPU cost 3 billion to develop and Intel and it''s taking its toll. AMD head of Vega development just took a 3 month sabbatical. This after I heard that AMD took people who were working on Vega and moved them to Ryzen.
     
    #485
  6. Cygnus A Purple Belt

    Cygnus A
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    They don't have the team size or funds to "beat" intel or Nvidia. Frankly, I am amazed they are able to stay somewhat competitive, with the only explanation being Intel and Nvidia don't feel threatened so they just trickle out updates instead of forcing major architecture changes.
     
    #486
  7. PEB Atomic Butt Drop Champ :)

    PEB
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    I don't know about Intel but Nvidia plowed 3 billion into their newest GPU.
     
    #487
  8. PEB Atomic Butt Drop Champ :)

    PEB
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    Apparently AMD denying this is a problem but I hear there is a brain drain at the senior level. Autonomous driving cash it tapping many senior designers seeking big payoff.

    I hear AMD more so then NVIDIA is dealing with a number of key people moving. AMD problem two fold they are replacing these people with far less experienced people. Cash to offer these people has been difficult because many Chinese backed startups are offering 6 figures upfront to sign this talent.

    One up side AMD been able to retain non Silicon Valley employees IE Texas and Massachusetts better then the Valley. Very little of this is being talked about as the Valley being invaded by new companies each week.
     
    #488
  9. jefferz Gold Belt

    jefferz
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    #489
    Madmick likes this.
  10. Madmick Stop Spoiling My TV Life (it's the one I like)

    Madmick
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    Crap like this makes me wish we could purchase them from AMD directly for cheaper, but that isn't necessarily the case as their focus is the IP of the hardware design, not necessarily its manufacture. Still, I don't see the benefit to adding a heat-trapping box. The obsession with aesthetics really hurts the market at times. Just give us the green, fugly card. It works better that way. Along those lines...

    #BackplatesRAscourge.
     
    #490
  11. jefferz Gold Belt

    jefferz
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    Blower style cards definitely have their use cases, but you'd think they'd come up with a design that didn't thermal throttle so they could show the full potential of the card. At this point, I think back plates are a necessity on the higher level cards to combat sag from the weight of the cards these days.
    I've never understood why companies spent so much time in the aesthetics of the face of the cards because you never see it. Vertical mounted cards have been restricted to a handful of specialty cases and a few modders. I think vertical mounting options will become more popular in the next couple of years.
     
    #491
  12. GhostZ06 Gold Belt

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  13. jefferz Gold Belt

    jefferz
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    Intel released slide
    [​IMG]

    Intel is making the i5 relevant again. The i5-8400 is 6/6 and the R5-1500x is 4/8 at the same price 8400 will turbo to 4ghz and the 1500x will turbo to 3.7 and OC to 4ghz.
    i3 is still pointless. If they're stepping up to 6/6 for the i5's, they really need to put turbo boost on the i3.
     
    #493
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2017 at 1:42 AM
  14. PEB Atomic Butt Drop Champ :)

    PEB
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    The clock speeds are the magic to these new chips all of them run up to 4 plus ghz except for the lower end chips. I would wait for the benchmarks to come out before making a call. That being said Ryzen 2 could be put into production at the beginning of 2018 to respond to Intel newest offering.
     
    #494
  15. jefferz Gold Belt

    jefferz
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    I thought the refresh was coming out in 18 and Ryzen 2 wasn't coming out until 2019.
     
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