Official AMD "Ryzen" CPU Discussion

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The Athlon x4 950's looks to be a great option to the G4560 at the same price, $60. I'm seeing people getting 4.1ghz out of them and they're a true quad core. It would be a great place holder cpu looking for someone looking to get into pc gaming. That AM4 socket is good until 2020, that leaves a lot of options open in the future if you pick up a b350 board now.

 
The Athlon x4 950's looks to be a great option to the G4560 at the same price, $60. I'm seeing people getting 4.1ghz out of them and they're a true quad core. It would be a great place holder cpu looking for someone looking to get into pc gaming. That AM4 socket is good until 2020, that leaves a lot of options open in the future if you pick up a b350 board now.


Whoa I didn't know they still make Athlon's... Lol
 
Whoa I didn't know they still make Athlon's... Lol
I knew they were coming out with it, but it was a head scratcher at the time for me. I didn't expect them to perform this good. For a budget build, I'd recommend the x4 950 over the G4560 now. There's a better upgrade path if you spend a little more on the mobo, about $20, on your initial investment. You could still get $50 for the x4 950 used and put it towards a R5 or R7 down the road.
Apparently there's an Athlon x4 970 also, not to be confused with the Phenom x4 970 that came out 7 years ago.
 
I knew they were coming out with it, but it was a head scratcher at the time for me. I didn't expect them to perform this good. For a budget build, I'd recommend the x4 950 over the G4560 now. There's a better upgrade path if you spend a little more on the mobo, about $20, on your initial investment. You could still get $50 for the x4 950 used and put it towards a R5 or R7 down the road.
Apparently there's an Athlon x4 970 also, not to be confused with the Phenom x4 970 that came out 7 years ago.
Exciting times ahead for the PC market imo
 
Exciting times ahead for the PC market imo
Those Athlons are still based on Bulldozer architecture. The Ryzen APU's are what I'm the most excited about. If they could make an APU that will do 1080p 60fps on medium settings for under $200 it would be amazing.
 
Those Athlons are still based on Bulldozer architecture. The Ryzen APU's are what I'm the most excited about. If they could make an APU that will do 1080p 60fps on medium settings for under $200 it would be amazing.
Agreed, the CPU improvement will be huge, and they really need to focus more on the onboard GPU. The problem has been static for a while-- in 2017:
  • Intel Pentium G4560 ($60) + RX 460 / GTX 1050 (~$100) = $160
Which is about the price of the top APU offering at any given time, and the above just shits on it. This is the competitive option that has reduced these APU's to glamorized HTPC processors (when as you've pointed out many times Intel enjoys all of the media decoding and also web-based contract advantages such as with early Netflix 4K support). So pretty much it doesn't make sense as a gamer purchase, it doesn't make sense as an HTPC purchase, and it doesn't make sense for an office/general purpose. They're in a real No Man's Sky. Every once in a while you see a great price on a particular APU, due to their obscurity, but otherwise, I find myself wondering how many of those they actually sell.

Best case to argue is that the APUs might have been preferable for games that tend to be CPU intensive, but not terribly GPU intensive. The thing is that games like basically don't exist, and good luck figuring out which ones they are. On top of that the G4560 changed the game for Pentium, and manages to be just as strong as the quad core APUs (ex. A12-8800 PRO, A10-7890K) in terms of overall performance, anyway, so it's not like you're getting an advantage on anything-- not even the CPU. Additionally, you're restricted to DDR3-RAM on the old architecture. Uggh.

I think I saw that A10-7850K for like $80 recently. At that price it's a great value, certainly, but the rest of the system will still be the primary cost, diminishing the advantage of that value, and nothing is changed about the fact it fills no niche in the market.
 
Oh, btw, found a great archived Reddit from back in February when Ryzen launched.
https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterra...getting_more_than_4_cores_in_a_gaming_cpu_is/
JonWood007 said:
So...with Ryzen coming out, I'm seeing a lot of misinformation about CPUs with lots of cores and how they're not worth it for gaming. The common knowledge I'm seeing from some is that a quad is all you need, and games may not use or need more cores within the lifespan of the CPU. I'm going to prove here that this is demonstrably false as benchmarks prove that games do use more cores and that it might be a good idea if you plan to upgrade to Ryzen to go for a model with more cores than just 4. This isn't to say that 4 won't do well for the time being, but given future trends in CPU core usage, we might see CPUs using 8 cores regularly within a few years, just like we saw quads become standard over the last 7 years or so.

So, let's discuss why this idea that quad cores is the gold standard exist. Before Ryzen comes out, quad are standard because of the products on the market. There are CPUs with more cores, but they're either very weak (AMD's FX series) and don't perform as well consistently as a stronger quad like an i5, or they're prohibitively expensive like intel's i7 line. However, with AMD Ryzen coming out and pushing 8 cores for the price of an i7, and 6 cores for the price of an i5, arguably with comparable or slightly inferior IPC to intel's lineup, we might see a scenario where it will finally be worth it to buy a CPU that has more cores.

So, let's look at some benchmarks. I'm going to compare the FX line to each other, and the i5s to the i7s for reference points for how well multithreading works. I'll be focusing on games that primarily use more threads...obviously not all will, and quads will do for many games today still, but I do want to show how you might see a performance boost with more cores.

Battlefield 1

BF1 is probably the best example of a game that uses more cores, and as we know, when EA pushes CPU tech with their battlefield series, that will often become a precedent for future games to follow.

So, we have an FX 4300 CPU doing 57 FPS with 49 average, a FX 6300 doing 78/65, and a FX 8350 doing 92/77.

There are some clock differences, but say performance scales perfectly with clock speed and we put all of these at 3.5 GHz to compare.

That means that the quad core does 52.5, the 6 core does 65, and the 8 core does 80.5.

That's a pretty big boost in performance. The 6 core CPU does 24% better than the quad, and the 8 core does 24% than the 6 core, and 53% better than the quad core. Note that the 8350 still does worse than the i5 2500k in minimum FPS. This is why quads are still the gold standard. AMD's IPC is so weak with the FX CPUs that 8 cores still can't match a quad. But that doesn't mean the game can't properly utilize 8 cores if they exist.

Let's look at intel now.

2500k gets 88 FPS, 2600k gets 115. Hyperthreading has the effect of adding 26% to the performance here controlling for clock speed.

With the 4000 series, we get similar results. The 4770k is 26% faster than the 4670k.

6000 series, same story. i7 is 26% faster than the i5.

And if we look at the i7 5960x, despite being lower clocked, it's on par with the 6700 (although this might be due to a frame cap) and it beats out 4770k. If we clocked the 4770k down to 3 GHz, we'd see a 30% improvement over the 4770k.

So, it seems quite clear both multithreading and more cores do add performance. It might not scale perfectly. Going from 4-6 cores should improve performance by 33%, and 6-8 should yield 25%, but more cores are used, and you do get more performance. Hyperthreading itself seems to yield a good 26% more performance. It doesn't seem as effective as more physical cores is looking at how i3s perform against i5s, but it does seem to add performance.

Overwatch

In Overwatch, controlling for CPU speed and once again assuming perfect scaling per clock, we see the FX 6300 perform 33% better than the 4300. We see the 8350 perform 8% better than the 6300 and 44% better than the 4300. We see a huge jump going from 4 cores to 6 cores. The difference between 8 and 6 though seems to be dominated more by a higher clock speed (if we knock the 8350 down by 12.5% we get 123 FPS to the 6300's 114).

Looking at the effect of hyperthreading is harder in this game because of the 144 cap, so I won't vother doing it. It should be noted only the i7s and the FX 9590 seem to get a consistent 144 FPS though so those extra threads are doing something.

Battlefront

Another EA game based on frostbite.

Here the 6300 controlling for clock speed performs 19% better than the 4300 and the 8350 does 18% better than the 6300 and 40% better than the 4300.

Not as good as BF1, but still significant. EA's clearly been improving the multithreading of its engine.

The difference between the 2500k and 2600k is about 18%. 4670k to 4770k is about 15%. And the i5 5960X, despite being slower, is faster than all of them. if we knocked the 4770k's clock speed down to 3 GHz, the 5960x would be 23% better.

Fallout 4

Controlling for clock speed, FX 6300 is 10% faster than the 4300. 8350 is 9% faster than the 6300, and 20% faster than the 4300.

Hyperthreading on the intel side seems to have a MUCH larger effect.

2500k to 2600k is 17% faster. 4670k to 4770k is 13% faster. And once again, the best CPU seems to be the 5960x with 8c/16t, despite its low clocks.

This isn't to say that in this case that there isn't diminishing returns here. But games are benefitting from increased cores.

Grand Theft Auto V

In GTA V, once again, controlling for clock speed, the 6300 performs 19% better than the 4300. The 8350 performs 6% better than the 6300 and 26% better than the 4300.

The 2600k performs 13% better than the 2500k. The 4770k performs 6% better than the 4670k. The 5960x once again outperforms all of the CPUs listed.

Watch Dogs 2

Yikes. The 6300 performs 41% better than the 4300. The 8350 performs 18% better than the 6300 and 66% better than the 4300. That's pretty massive.

The 2600k performs 13% better than the 2500k. The 4770k performs 13% better than the 4670k. The 6700 performs 16% better than the 6600k. And once again, the 5960x is on top. COmparing it to the 6700, controlling for clock speeds, we see a 36% boost between the 8 core 5960x and the 6700. That's pretty significant.

I'm just gonna list from here on, not gonna do exact calculations, but I will give a little commentary.

The Division

I don't suspect there's much of a difference here on the AMD side, and I think a lot of the difference there can be explained by clock speed differences, although it looks like there is a small single digits, maybe 10% boost there.

On the intel side, with hyperthreading, we see very significant increases in minimum framerates, with once again the i7 5960x taking the cake.

Battlefield Hardline

On the AMD side, there seems to be a major difference between 4 and 6 cores, with much less difference between 6 and 8. On the intel side, hyperthreading seems to be negligible. Perhaps they reached a GPU bottleneck here, who knows. It's weird to see the 6 core i7 3970x perform similarly to the 4770k considering the major difference from 4300 to 6300.

Doom

There isnt much of a difference between the 4300 and 6300 but the 8350 seems to be performing extremely well. Hyper threading seems to add negligible performance.

So what can we conclude from this?

It looks to me that while not true in all games (I did look at other games that had next to no, to no performance with increased cores, some had GPU bottlenecks, others simply seemed to fail to utilize more than 4 cores), there does seem to be a trend toward increased multithreading in games. At the very least, an argument can be made when Ryzen comes out that getting a 6 core model looks like a good investment, since many games do seem to benefit significantly from the increased core count and even more with combined multithreading. Considering how the Ryzen 8 core models seem to be comparable to the 5960x based on early benchmarks, that might be worth it too.

There does seem to be less of a difference on average between 6 and 8 cores than there is between 4 and 6, but the difference still seems to exist in some cases.

Regardless, I'd say an argument can be made for buying CPUs with increased core count assuming the IPC is good. If it's crap like the FX series is compared to the i5s, of course quads are better, but assuming it's within, say, 20% of what intel offers, there's no reason to not go for the extra 2-4 cores. Considering how you'll be able to buy something similar to the i7 5960x (presumably) for the price of a quad core i7 and a 6 core for the price of an i5, I think a strong argument can be made for going for it.

This debate between more or fewer cores isn't new. This debate happened 10 years ago, when people were deciding between the core 2 duo e8400 or the core 2 quad q6600. The same architecture was used in both, but most went with the E8400 because it was cheaper and because it was clocked 25% higher. This might have sounded like a good investment at the time, but then games like Bad company 2, BF3, and others hit and the dual cores were severely lacking compared to the quads. Fast forward around 2-3 years later when the consoles came out 2013 with games like watch dogs and E8400 was basically useless. While it does appear there is a diminishing rate of returns with multithreading where even games that support it don't scale perfectly (we should see a 50% boost going to a 6 core and an additional 33% boost going to an 8 core), there is a boost nevertheless and it is significant.

Even if you have slightly less poerformance per thread and as such slightly less performance in some games, now, you'll likely still get a good 60 FPS in most situations and remember, what we really need to worry about in the future is games that actually do use more threads, and eventually REQUIRE those extra threads to function at all. The 8350 outperforms the 4300, period. The 5960x outperforms the i5s and i7s.

And when CPUs like the 5960x finally being affordable, I do think there is a reason to go for at least a 6 core if not an 8 core. This is especially true if you plan on using your system for a long time. Sure, you might be able to skimp now if you plan on upgrading 3-4 years from now anyway, but if you plan to use your CPU for a long time (more than 4 years) it would be worth getting more cores.

And yeah. I just decided to do this because I still see people pushing the whole "all you need is 4 cores" mentality with ryzen coming out when it seems that yes, games actually do use multithreading more than one would think. Not all games do it, but enough of them do where I think we'll see more multithreading becoming common in the next few years.

EDIT: TLDR: Some games do use more than 4 cores/threads and there is a significant performance increase in some games from having more cores/threads available. Furthermore it's reasonable to expect these trends to continue in the future, just as quad cores overtook duals in terms of performance. As such it is worth getting a CPU with more cores assuming it's performance per core isn't crap. AMD Ryzen can be a game changer in this regard.

Edit2: it should be noted I did not make these benchmarks. I can't test anything. I pulled them off of Google, and they originate from a Russian site that benchmarks games game gamegpu.ru. Please stop asking me to benchmark certain games or complaining about my testing methodology. Not my problem.
That should get any (affluent) gamer excited about the prospect of upcoming 6-core and 8-core Coffee Lake chips. Obviously he's discussing some of the best optimized titles, that take advantage of CPU scaling with the most advanced APIs out there like DX12 and Vulkan, and these are incredibly rare titles, but they also tend to be the most demanding AAA titles where that horsepower really matters.
DSOG (Dark Side of Gaming)

10 Most Optimized PC Games of 2016
  1. DOOM
  2. Gears of War 4
  3. Battlefield 1
  4. Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare
  5. Mirror’s Edge: Catalyst
  6. Tom Clancy’s The Division
  7. Shadow Warrior 2
  8. F1 2016
  9. Forza Motorsport 6: APEX
  10. Rise of the Tomb Raider
10 Most Optimized PC Games of 2015
  1. Star Wars: Battlefront
  2. The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt
  3. Grand Theft Auto V
  4. Battlefield: Hardline
  5. Mad Max
  6. Dying Light
  7. Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain
  8. Zombie Army Trilogy
  9. Tom Clancy’s Rainbow Six: Siege
  10. Project CARS
10 Most Optimized PC Games of 2014
  1. Metal Gear Solid: Ground Zeroes
  2. Dragon Age: Inquisition
  3. Ryse: Son of Rome
  4. Alien: Isolation
  5. The Vanishing of Ethan Carter
  6. Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare
  7. Middle-Earth: Shadow of Mordor
  8. Sniper Elite 3
  9. Sid Meier’s Civilization: Beyond Earth
  10. GRID: Autosport

API Support


DX12
Ashes of Singularity
Battlefield 1
Caffeine
Civilization VI
Deux Ex: Mankind Divided
Forza Horizon 3
Forza Motorsport 6: Apex
Forza Motorsport 7
Gears of War 4
Gears of War: Ultimate Edition
Halo 5: Forge
Halo Wars 2
Heroes & Generals
Hitman
Quantum Break
Project CARS
Rise of the Tomb Raider
Sniper Elite 4
Star Wars: Battlefront
Tom Clancy’s The Division
Total War: Warhammer
The Turing Test

Vulkan
Ark: Surival Evolved
Ashes of Singularity
Ballistic Overkill
DOOM
Dota 2
Dream League Soccer
Escape from Tarkov
Geocore
Mad Max
Need for Speed: No Limits
Olympus Rising
Quake
Quake III Arena
Roblox
Rust
Serious Sam: Fusion 2017
Serious Sam VR: The Last Hope
Star Citizen
The Talos Principle
Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War III
Wolfenstein II: The New Colossus
 
Agreed, the CPU improvement will be huge, and they really need to focus more on the onboard GPU. The problem has been static for a while-- in 2017:
  • Intel Pentium G4560 ($60) + RX 460 / GTX 1050 (~$100) = $160
Which is about the price of the top APU offering at any given time, and the above just shits on it. This is the competitive option that has reduced these APU's to glamorized HTPC processors (when as you've pointed out many times Intel enjoys all of the media decoding and also web-based contract advantages such as with early Netflix 4K support). So pretty much it doesn't make sense as a gamer purchase, it doesn't make sense as an HTPC purchase, and it doesn't make sense for an office/general purpose. They're in a real No Man's Sky. Every once in a while you see a great price on a particular APU, due to their obscurity, but otherwise, I find myself wondering how many of those they actually sell.

Best case to argue is that the APUs might have been preferable for games that tend to be CPU intensive, but not terribly GPU intensive. The thing is that games like basically don't exist, and good luck figuring out which ones they are. On top of that the G4560 changed the game for Pentium, and manages to be just as strong as the quad core APUs (ex. A12-8800 PRO, A10-7890K) in terms of overall performance, anyway, so it's not like you're getting an advantage on anything-- not even the CPU. Additionally, you're restricted to DDR3-RAM on the old architecture. Uggh.

I think I saw that A10-7850K for like $80 recently. At that price it's a great value, certainly, but the rest of the system will still be the primary cost, diminishing the advantage of that value, and nothing is changed about the fact it fills no niche in the market.

About the only thing the A series is good for is the cheap A4's for things like pFsense routers imo.
They came out with an A12-9800, 4/4 @4.2ghz, on AM4 for $110 and it hovers around that 40fps range at 720p.
You can pick up a used 750ti for $60 on forums now and pair that with the g4560 or the x4 950 for about the same price, and you'll have a much better experience like you mentioned. I wouldn't be surprised to see that x4 950 dropping to $52ish on sale.
The x4 950 ($60) isn't on pcpartpicker yet and I went with the used 750ti ($60), but you can get into a 1080p 60fps med-high setup for $312.94 with a semi decent upgrade path.
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant
Motherboard: ASRock - AB350M Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Crucial - 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory ($62.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Western Digital - Caviar Green 500GB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($25.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Azza - SIRIUS ATX Mid Tower Case ($19.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair - CX (2017) 450W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($23.98 @ Newegg)
Total: $192.94
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-09-02 02:09 EDT-0400

Edit:
Jet.com has the X4 950 for $53.43 shipped with coupon code SHOPJET
 
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About the only thing the A series is good for is the cheap A4's for things like pFsense routers imo.
They came out with an A12-9800, 4/4 @4.2ghz, on AM4 for $110 and it hovers around that 40fps range at 720p.
You can pick up a used 750ti for $60 on forums now and pair that with the g4560 or the x4 950 for about the same price, and you'll have a much better experience like you mentioned. I wouldn't be surprised to see that x4 950 dropping to $52ish on sale.
The x4 950 ($60) isn't on pcpartpicker yet and I went with the used 750ti ($60), but you can get into a 1080p 60fps med-high setup for $312.94 with a semi decent upgrade path.
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant
Motherboard: ASRock - AB350M Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Crucial - 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory ($62.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Western Digital - Caviar Green 500GB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($25.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Azza - SIRIUS ATX Mid Tower Case ($19.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair - CX (2017) 450W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($23.98 @ Newegg)
Total: $192.94
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-09-02 02:09 EDT-0400
Hadn't gotten into that DIY router subculture at all. Absolutely zero point where I live.
 
Hadn't gotten into that DIY router subculture at all. Absolutely zero point where I live.
They require minimal power, even an Atom is overkill. I've thought about doing it a couple of times, but decided it's another computer I don't need running and I don't trust myself enough to constantly update the security.
 
Looks like this should be the launch lineup:

khrFwQ.png
 
Looks like this should be the launch lineup:

khrFwQ.png

Wait wait wait. The i3-8100 and i3-8350k are going to use 200 series chip sets. So does that mean that they're not going to require a different board? Are just those cpu's going to work on 1151 series boards, or will all Coffee lake work on 1151? Are we getting Z280 chipsets?
The i7-8700 is going to turbo a full ghz?! God damn.
Looks like we're in for a big shakeup in the i3 lineup. No more 2/4's. Hopefully they decide to put turbo boost on them.
That i3-8350k is a very interesting sku. 4/4 with a base of 4.0ghz. As long as they don't pull any cock fuckery it should hit 4.5ghz on air.
I'm kind of all over the place, but that's my first impressions.

There's a couple of i5 and i7 Coffee Lake processors on Intel Ark
i7-8650U
# of Cores4
# of Threads8
Processor Base Frequency1.90 GHz
Max Turbo Frequency4.20 GHz
Cache8 MB SmartCache
https://ark.intel.com/products/124968/Intel-Core-i7-8650U-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-4_20-GHz
 
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Wait wait wait. The i3-8100 and i3-8350k are going to use 200 series chip sets. So does that mean that they're not going to require a different board? Are just those cpu's going to work on 1151 series boards, or will all Coffee lake work on 1151? Are we getting Z280 chipsets?
The i7-8700 is going to turbo a full ghz?! God damn.
Looks like we're in for a big shakeup in the i3 lineup. No more 2/4's. Hopefully they decide to put turbo boost on them.
That i3-8350k is a very interesting sku. 4/4 with a base of 4.0ghz. As long as they don't pull any cock fuckery it should hit 4.5ghz on air.
I'm kind of all over the place, but that's my first impressions.
The whole damn thing is a mess with Intel right now. That's been the point.I think the reason nothing is making sense is because Intel has been so flustered, and is scrambling to present a coherent answer to Ryzen that they apparently calculated they would never need to formulate.

For example, one new strategy was realizing, simply, that it's stupid for any desktop quad core chipset in 2017 to get i7 branding. Just stupid. The i7 line has always been intended to designate a higher level of computational power, and while the original model was only $280, that was back in 2008 when that price point really did register in the higher echelons of computing power, prior to the great core/server expansion of the past decade, and I don't think it belongs in that sub-$400 space anymore.

I'm irritated that there is both a Celeron and Pentium line. What's the point? The question lingers in an existential space. How is the Celeron a better value than the Pentium for even a shoestring corporate contract office PC operated by an everyday user? Celeron has been a scourge since it debuted. Besides, if that's the case, then take it off the desktop market, pivot marketing, and just commit the Celeron line to the new AIO builds mimicking the iMac (that often use mobile CPUs).

Presently, it appears that Celeron CPUs are their dual core line that doesn't hyperthread (and also have a lower base clock and less cache) aimed for office or HTPC environments. If that's so, though, and they're moving the i3 line to quad core, then why isn't the i5 line the hyperthreaded quad core chips, and since they aren't, but are hexacore, why are there also hexacore i7's? Meanwhile we've talked about how the i3 line is in a limbo world where it's a pointless purchase for almost anybody. Taken all at once, it's like a puzzle that has too many pieces. No matter how you look at it their branding is an absolute mess.

My Suggested Intel Desktop CPU Strategy for Logical Consistency

  • Celeron = 2 Core, Office-Class (no hyperthreading, lower base clock, less cache, locked)
  • Pentium = 2 Core, Gamer-Class (hyperthreading, higher base clock, more cache, unlocked)
  • i3 = 4 Core
  • i5 = 6 Core
  • i7 = 8 Core
  • i9 = 10+ Cores
  • i7-E / Xeon = 8+ Cores (wider lanes/memory support, multiple CPU socketing, etc)
-- Obviously, I would prefer they ditch the Celeron line --

I also propose that they consider adopting an "h" at the front of the model number for those models which hyperthread (ex. i5-h8600K vs. i5-8600K). Alternatively, you could addend it to the end, but one must remember that "HK" is already in use for laptops, so perhaps "T" for "thread". Ultimately, this would result in four different possible variations of any given model (ex. i5-8600, i5-8600T, i5-8600K, i5-8600TK)

If two CPU models are identical, except for that one thing, there's no reason for them to have different model numbers. It's stupid. A distinct model number should indicate, on face value alone, that there is some other architectural difference between the two beyond hyperthreading, and yet hyperthreading is increasingly becoming a dividing point between gamer and production CPU tasking, and therefore market appeal.

I think the above would immediately restore viability to the i3 line, obviously, but would also position the i5 to perhaps once again become the predominant gaming-class line, especially if Intel focused their efforts on a higher base clock for the line's flagship; finally the i7 would once again have that "oooohh" wow factor because mere mention of the name would invoke production-class computational power while i9 would remain the incoming spaceship of wonder.
There's a couple of i5 and i7 Coffee Lake processors on Intel Ark
i7-8650U
# of Cores4
# of Threads8
Processor Base Frequency1.90 GHz
Max Turbo Frequency4.20 GHz
Cache8 MB SmartCache
https://ark.intel.com/products/124968/Intel-Core-i7-8650U-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-4_20-GHz
That's a laptop i7 (thus the enormous Turbo). The "U" is typically the model with lower energy consumption: achieved by lowering the clock and halving the cores (the "HQ" models are the gaming laptop performers). The desktop model should have eight physical cores.
 
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ASRock Shows Coffee Lake SKUs on 1151 socket
Guru3D said:
Okay, it's not exactly a secret anymore that Intel is launching Coffee lake processors with Z370 motherboard top go along with it. However, that's all unofficial. Two days ago ASRock already leaked photos of their Z370 motherboard line-up. Today they goof up again, their website is listing the Coffee Lake procs including clock frequencies.

Honestly, this is getting a little embarrassing for ASRock, but hey check it out. Videocardz spotted this one so kudos to them for the spot, if you go here and clicked a link (removed now). The listing included the six Coffee Lake procs including name and baseclock.

aHR0cDovL21lZGlhLmJlc3RvZm1pY3JvLmNvbS9JL1ovNzA5NTk1L29yaWdpbmFsLzAxLkpQRw==


Just wow.

Coffee Lake (8th gen) six-core processors are based on the LGA1151 socket, but will require a new motherboard chipset. They have a TDP of either 65 or 95W. There will be be two 6 cores models with HT (12MB L3), an two without HT (9MB L3). The four core models (8MB L3) will not get hyper-threading, which confirms earlier rumors.

We have some more news though. B350 is niot more AMD took that spot. Ergo Intel will launch B360. In fact you will see Z370, B360 and get this ... Z390 (we have no idea what intel is planning there). Check a leaked roadmap screenshot below.
upload_2017-9-8_13-20-55.png
Coffee Lake Coming With 1151 Socket, But Still Requires 300-Series Chipset
Tom's Hardware said:
We already knew that Coffee Lake requires new 300-series motherboards, as first indicated by ASRock and then later accidentally confirmed by Intel, but sticking with Socket 1151 will make it harder for enthusiasts to stomach the lack of backward compatibility with 200-series motherboards.

This isn't an entirely new tactic from Intel, but we need a good reason to upgrade from the eight-month old Kaby Lake-era Z270 motherboards, and in contrast to Intel's other transitions, this time around you will gain extra cores in the process.

That comes with a caveat though, as we would like to see some additional platform capabilities from a new chipset, but all signs point to the 300-series chipset merely being a "Z270 refresh," meaning it will not bring any increased connectivity options. It remains to be seen if the 300-series will support Kaby Lake processors--they do share the same socket after all. But outside of new LED functionality or other third-party additions, that might be a dubious upgrade path if there are
If you're paying attention, then the answer is yes, the Coffee Lake processors will ship without the top-end Z390 chipset motherboards at launch. One might assume from the graph that is intended as the upgraded chipset coinciding with the oncoming "tock" refresh to the generation in the latter half of 2018, but then it doesn't make sense where Ice Lake fits in given the recent press announcements unless it is the tock. If this doesn't convince everyone that Intel is rushing the hell out of everything, not merely their product announcement, then I don't know what else will.
Intel's Coffee Lake will launch without its top-end motherboard chipset
PCGN said:
Intel are dethroning the Z370, before it's even been released, and replacing it with the Z390 as the top enthusiast chipset for the Intel Coffee Lake processors... although not for some time. Thanks to a leaked Intel chipset roadmap, we have an idea of where Intel plan to go with their unprecedented multi-microarchitecture 8th Gen processors.

Intel are gearing up to launch their 8th Gen Coffee Lake processors and the usual handful of motherboard chipsets to accompany them. Usual for the most part, at least. A leaked Intel chipset roadmap, which appeared over at the Anandtech forums, lists Intel’s chipset plans into the second half of 2018. Only Intel’s high-performance Z370 chipset will be launched in 2017, with budget builders needing to wait till early next year.

 
Report: AMD Stealing Significant Market Share, Revenue from Intel
ExtremeTech said:
One ongoing question, ever since AMD launched its Ryzen 7 family, is how well the CPUs are selling. We’ve seen some arguments that claim AMD’s improved financials are unstable or temporary, based on the idea that GPUs were more profitable than CPUs (extremely unlikely), or that AMD’s lower profit margins meant Ryzen wasn’t selling well. We’ve been dubious of such claims, given how much AMD’s Computing and Graphics revenue rose in Q2. New evidence from Mindfactory.de, a German retailer, suggests AMD’s Ryzen family is selling very well.



The graph above shows sales data for AMD (left) and Intel (right) CPUs from March through August of 2017. In March, AMD accounted for just 27.6 percent of Mindfactory’s CPU sales. Every month after, the AMD-Intel split shifted decisively in favor of AMD until August, when AMD sales actually outstripped Intel, 56.1 percent to 43.9 percent.

But that’s not the only place where AMD has taken market share from Intel. AMD’s revenue share at Mindfactory.de has also climbed significantly, from 35.6 percent to 54 percent over the same time period.


Data provided by Ingebor

Put together, these sales look fairly good for AMD, though Mindshare.de is just one retailer out of many. There can be region-specific differences in CPU adoption rates, so we can’t take Mindfactory’s data and claim it represents the entire planet. With that said, the gains are significant enough that we’d expect to see similar patterns across all the markets AMD serves. Some countries may see more and some less, but a nearly 20 percent jump in CPU revenue will be reflected in more than one market.

Based on these results, chips like the R5 1600 have been the breakout winners in August, which makes some sense — the R5 1600 is a $215 six-core / 12-thread processor, which blows any equivalent core counts from Intel at the same price out of the water. Intel’s Core i5s that compete at this price point are four-core / four-thread chips. That may change with future product releases, but AMD will still have a 2:1 thread advantage at these price points once Coffee Lake is released.

The Steam Hardware Survey is the closest we have to an overall look at the market, but Steam isn’t designed to tell us how a company is necessarily doing today (its August figures show a long-term AMD decrease of 1.37 percent since April). While there are exceptions for entirely new markets — VR didn’t exist before 2016, so we can see something about total VR adoption from those figures — Steam doesn’t track new hardware sales, but the total size of a market. It also makes no distinction between desktop and laptop sales, which means AMD gains in desktops could be offset by Intel’s laptop market share.

Given that Mindfactory.de is reporting its actual sales, these figures seem more likely to reflect AMD’s market performance since Ryzen launched. We’ll know more in 5-6 weeks when AMD reports its own quarterly results.
I've been watching the AMD stock waiting for it to jump. First, they steamroll Intel's server business with a CPU launch that includes octacore CPUs that nearly match Intel's editing/server CPUs for less than half the price; second, they're able to hike their GPU product launch $100 across the line immediately prior to its release, when one has to assume the original pricing would have been yielding a profit already, and nobody bats an eye because of the cryptocurrency craze, and the fact that Vega dominates cryptomining. Now it looks like the Ryzen 3 and Ryzen 5 processors are devouring Intel's gaming supremacy, too.
 
European Coffee Lake pricing leaked:
Leaked Prices Reveal Stunning Intel 8th Generation Coffee Lake CPUs: Six Cores From $300
upload_2017-9-11_9-22-50.jpeg

Conversion Key:
€1.0 EUR = $1.2 USD



Much better, Intel. Now you're getting it. Basically we just saw ~$225 price cut off the MSRP of the i7-6850K series of old "-E" architecture releases: that has become the i7-8700K, now (gamer friendly: higher frequency, a bit less cache). Meanwhile, the i5-8600K should bring what used to be the i7-7700K level of performance into the sub-$300 territory. Finally, the i3-8350K takes over where the i5-7600K left off. The US price may be as low as $199, so that is also a reduction off the flagship i5's price going back a decade.

Thank you, AMD. Thank you, capitalism.
 
European Coffee Lake pricing leaked:
Leaked Prices Reveal Stunning Intel 8th Generation Coffee Lake CPUs: Six Cores From $300
View attachment 274791

Conversion Key:
€1.0 EUR = $1.2 USD



Much better, Intel. Now you're getting it. Basically we just saw ~$225 price cut off the MSRP of the i7-6850K series of old "-E" architecture releases: that has become the i7-8700K, now (gamer friendly: higher frequency, a bit less cache). Meanwhile, the i5-8600K should bring what used to be the i7-7700K level of performance into the sub-$300 territory. Finally, the i3-8350K takes over where the i5-7600K left off. The US price may be as low as $199, so that is also a reduction off the flagship i5's price going back a decade.

Thank you, AMD. Thank you, capitalism.

The i3 line is still garbage. An R3 1200 can be oc'd to the same speeds at the i3-8300, and it's cheaper.
If the i3-8350k comes in at $200, I'd spend the extra $15 and go with a R5-1600 all day, erry day. It's got 2/8 more cores, double the L3 cache, a cheaper mobo, and a lower TDP. Only reason to go with an i3 would be for Optane or wanting on board graphics
Good lord, $465 for the 8700k. If I don't have to upgrade motherboards, I may consider it.
I wonder what the Pentium line will look like.
 
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