Official AMD "Ryzen" CPU Discussion ***UPDATE #2: Intel Announces Ice Lake chips early*** | Page 24

Discussion in 'Video Game Forum' started by PEB, Nov 24, 2016.

  1. jefferz Gold Belt

    jefferz
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  2. jefferz Gold Belt

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    The Athlon x4 950's looks to be a great option to the G4560 at the same price, $60. I'm seeing people getting 4.1ghz out of them and they're a true quad core. It would be a great place holder cpu looking for someone looking to get into pc gaming. That AM4 socket is good until 2020, that leaves a lot of options open in the future if you pick up a b350 board now.

     
    #462
  3. Slobodan Вело ;)

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    Whoa I didn't know they still make Athlon's... Lol
     
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  4. jefferz Gold Belt

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    I knew they were coming out with it, but it was a head scratcher at the time for me. I didn't expect them to perform this good. For a budget build, I'd recommend the x4 950 over the G4560 now. There's a better upgrade path if you spend a little more on the mobo, about $20, on your initial investment. You could still get $50 for the x4 950 used and put it towards a R5 or R7 down the road.
    Apparently there's an Athlon x4 970 also, not to be confused with the Phenom x4 970 that came out 7 years ago.
     
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  5. Slobodan Вело ;)

    Slobodan
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    Exciting times ahead for the PC market imo
     
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  6. jefferz Gold Belt

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    Those Athlons are still based on Bulldozer architecture. The Ryzen APU's are what I'm the most excited about. If they could make an APU that will do 1080p 60fps on medium settings for under $200 it would be amazing.
     
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  7. Madmick Stop Spoiling My TV Life (it's the one I like)

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    Agreed, the CPU improvement will be huge, and they really need to focus more on the onboard GPU. The problem has been static for a while-- in 2017:
    • Intel Pentium G4560 ($60) + RX 460 / GTX 1050 (~$100) = $160
    Which is about the price of the top APU offering at any given time, and the above just shits on it. This is the competitive option that has reduced these APU's to glamorized HTPC processors (when as you've pointed out many times Intel enjoys all of the media decoding and also web-based contract advantages such as with early Netflix 4K support). So pretty much it doesn't make sense as a gamer purchase, it doesn't make sense as an HTPC purchase, and it doesn't make sense for an office/general purpose. They're in a real No Man's Sky. Every once in a while you see a great price on a particular APU, due to their obscurity, but otherwise, I find myself wondering how many of those they actually sell.

    Best case to argue is that the APUs might have been preferable for games that tend to be CPU intensive, but not terribly GPU intensive. The thing is that games like basically don't exist, and good luck figuring out which ones they are. On top of that the G4560 changed the game for Pentium, and manages to be just as strong as the quad core APUs (ex. A12-8800 PRO, A10-7890K) in terms of overall performance, anyway, so it's not like you're getting an advantage on anything-- not even the CPU. Additionally, you're restricted to DDR3-RAM on the old architecture. Uggh.

    I think I saw that A10-7850K for like $80 recently. At that price it's a great value, certainly, but the rest of the system will still be the primary cost, diminishing the advantage of that value, and nothing is changed about the fact it fills no niche in the market.
     
    #467
  8. Madmick Stop Spoiling My TV Life (it's the one I like)

    Madmick
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    Oh, btw, found a great archived Reddit from back in February when Ryzen launched.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterra...getting_more_than_4_cores_in_a_gaming_cpu_is/
    That should get any (affluent) gamer excited about the prospect of upcoming 6-core and 8-core Coffee Lake chips. Obviously he's discussing some of the best optimized titles, that take advantage of CPU scaling with the most advanced APIs out there like DX12 and Vulkan, and these are incredibly rare titles, but they also tend to be the most demanding AAA titles where that horsepower really matters.
    DSOG (Dark Side of Gaming)

    10 Most Optimized PC Games of 2016
    1. DOOM
    2. Gears of War 4
    3. Battlefield 1
    4. Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare
    5. Mirror’s Edge: Catalyst
    6. Tom Clancy’s The Division
    7. Shadow Warrior 2
    8. F1 2016
    9. Forza Motorsport 6: APEX
    10. Rise of the Tomb Raider
    10 Most Optimized PC Games of 2015
    1. Star Wars: Battlefront
    2. The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt
    3. Grand Theft Auto V
    4. Battlefield: Hardline
    5. Mad Max
    6. Dying Light
    7. Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain
    8. Zombie Army Trilogy
    9. Tom Clancy’s Rainbow Six: Siege
    10. Project CARS
    10 Most Optimized PC Games of 2014
    1. Metal Gear Solid: Ground Zeroes
    2. Dragon Age: Inquisition
    3. Ryse: Son of Rome
    4. Alien: Isolation
    5. The Vanishing of Ethan Carter
    6. Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare
    7. Middle-Earth: Shadow of Mordor
    8. Sniper Elite 3
    9. Sid Meier’s Civilization: Beyond Earth
    10. GRID: Autosport

    API Support


    DX12
    Ashes of Singularity
    Battlefield 1
    Caffeine
    Civilization VI
    Deux Ex: Mankind Divided
    Forza Horizon 3
    Forza Motorsport 6: Apex
    Forza Motorsport 7
    Gears of War 4
    Gears of War: Ultimate Edition
    Halo 5: Forge
    Halo Wars 2
    Heroes & Generals
    Hitman
    Quantum Break
    Project CARS
    Rise of the Tomb Raider
    Sniper Elite 4
    Star Wars: Battlefront
    Tom Clancy’s The Division
    Total War: Warhammer
    The Turing Test

    Vulkan
    Ark: Surival Evolved
    Ashes of Singularity
    Ballistic Overkill
    DOOM
    Dota 2
    Dream League Soccer
    Escape from Tarkov
    Geocore
    Mad Max
    Need for Speed: No Limits
    Olympus Rising
    Quake
    Quake III Arena
    Roblox
    Rust
    Serious Sam: Fusion 2017
    Serious Sam VR: The Last Hope
    Star Citizen
    The Talos Principle
    Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War III
    Wolfenstein II: The New Colossus
     
    #468
  9. jefferz Gold Belt

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    About the only thing the A series is good for is the cheap A4's for things like pFsense routers imo.
    They came out with an A12-9800, 4/4 @4.2ghz, on AM4 for $110 and it hovers around that 40fps range at 720p.
    You can pick up a used 750ti for $60 on forums now and pair that with the g4560 or the x4 950 for about the same price, and you'll have a much better experience like you mentioned. I wouldn't be surprised to see that x4 950 dropping to $52ish on sale.
    The x4 950 ($60) isn't on pcpartpicker yet and I went with the used 750ti ($60), but you can get into a 1080p 60fps med-high setup for $312.94 with a semi decent upgrade path.
    PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant
    Motherboard: ASRock - AB350M Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard ($59.99 @ Newegg)
    Memory: Crucial - 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory ($62.99 @ Amazon)
    Storage: Western Digital - Caviar Green 500GB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($25.99 @ Amazon)
    Case: Azza - SIRIUS ATX Mid Tower Case ($19.99 @ Newegg)
    Power Supply: Corsair - CX (2017) 450W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($23.98 @ Newegg)
    Total: $192.94
    Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
    Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-09-02 02:09 EDT-0400

    Edit:
    Jet.com has the X4 950 for $53.43 shipped with coupon code SHOPJET
     
    #469
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2017
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  10. Madmick Stop Spoiling My TV Life (it's the one I like)

    Madmick
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    Hadn't gotten into that DIY router subculture at all. Absolutely zero point where I live.
     
    #470
  11. jefferz Gold Belt

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    They require minimal power, even an Atom is overkill. I've thought about doing it a couple of times, but decided it's another computer I don't need running and I don't trust myself enough to constantly update the security.
     
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  12. Madmick Stop Spoiling My TV Life (it's the one I like)

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    #472
  13. jefferz Gold Belt

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    #473
  14. Madmick Stop Spoiling My TV Life (it's the one I like)

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    Looks like this should be the launch lineup:

    [​IMG]
     
    #474
  15. jefferz Gold Belt

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    Wait wait wait. The i3-8100 and i3-8350k are going to use 200 series chip sets. So does that mean that they're not going to require a different board? Are just those cpu's going to work on 1151 series boards, or will all Coffee lake work on 1151? Are we getting Z280 chipsets?
    The i7-8700 is going to turbo a full ghz?! God damn.
    Looks like we're in for a big shakeup in the i3 lineup. No more 2/4's. Hopefully they decide to put turbo boost on them.
    That i3-8350k is a very interesting sku. 4/4 with a base of 4.0ghz. As long as they don't pull any cock fuckery it should hit 4.5ghz on air.
    I'm kind of all over the place, but that's my first impressions.

    There's a couple of i5 and i7 Coffee Lake processors on Intel Ark
    i7-8650U
    # of Cores4
    # of Threads8
    Processor Base Frequency1.90 GHz
    Max Turbo Frequency4.20 GHz
    Cache8 MB SmartCache
    https://ark.intel.com/products/124968/Intel-Core-i7-8650U-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-4_20-GHz
     
    #475
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2017
  16. Madmick Stop Spoiling My TV Life (it's the one I like)

    Madmick
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    The whole damn thing is a mess with Intel right now. That's been the point.I think the reason nothing is making sense is because Intel has been so flustered, and is scrambling to present a coherent answer to Ryzen that they apparently calculated they would never need to formulate.

    For example, one new strategy was realizing, simply, that it's stupid for any desktop quad core chipset in 2017 to get i7 branding. Just stupid. The i7 line has always been intended to designate a higher level of computational power, and while the original model was only $280, that was back in 2008 when that price point really did register in the higher echelons of computing power, prior to the great core/server expansion of the past decade, and I don't think it belongs in that sub-$400 space anymore.

    I'm irritated that there is both a Celeron and Pentium line. What's the point? The question lingers in an existential space. How is the Celeron a better value than the Pentium for even a shoestring corporate contract office PC operated by an everyday user? Celeron has been a scourge since it debuted. Besides, if that's the case, then take it off the desktop market, pivot marketing, and just commit the Celeron line to the new AIO builds mimicking the iMac (that often use mobile CPUs).

    Presently, it appears that Celeron CPUs are their dual core line that doesn't hyperthread (and also have a lower base clock and less cache) aimed for office or HTPC environments. If that's so, though, and they're moving the i3 line to quad core, then why isn't the i5 line the hyperthreaded quad core chips, and since they aren't, but are hexacore, why are there also hexacore i7's? Meanwhile we've talked about how the i3 line is in a limbo world where it's a pointless purchase for almost anybody. Taken all at once, it's like a puzzle that has too many pieces. No matter how you look at it their branding is an absolute mess.

    My Suggested Intel Desktop CPU Strategy for Logical Consistency

    • Celeron = 2 Core, Office-Class (no hyperthreading, lower base clock, less cache, locked)
    • Pentium = 2 Core, Gamer-Class (hyperthreading, higher base clock, more cache, unlocked)
    • i3 = 4 Core
    • i5 = 6 Core
    • i7 = 8 Core
    • i9 = 10+ Cores
    • i7-E / Xeon = 8+ Cores (wider lanes/memory support, multiple CPU socketing, etc)
    -- Obviously, I would prefer they ditch the Celeron line --

    I also propose that they consider adopting an "h" at the front of the model number for those models which hyperthread (ex. i5-h8600K vs. i5-8600K). Alternatively, you could addend it to the end, but one must remember that "HK" is already in use for laptops, so perhaps "T" for "thread". Ultimately, this would result in four different possible variations of any given model (ex. i5-8600, i5-8600T, i5-8600K, i5-8600TK)

    If two CPU models are identical, except for that one thing, there's no reason for them to have different model numbers. It's stupid. A distinct model number should indicate, on face value alone, that there is some other architectural difference between the two beyond hyperthreading, and yet hyperthreading is increasingly becoming a dividing point between gamer and production CPU tasking, and therefore market appeal.

    I think the above would immediately restore viability to the i3 line, obviously, but would also position the i5 to perhaps once again become the predominant gaming-class line, especially if Intel focused their efforts on a higher base clock for the line's flagship; finally the i7 would once again have that "oooohh" wow factor because mere mention of the name would invoke production-class computational power while i9 would remain the incoming spaceship of wonder.
    That's a laptop i7 (thus the enormous Turbo). The "U" is typically the model with lower energy consumption: achieved by lowering the clock and halving the cores (the "HQ" models are the gaming laptop performers). The desktop model should have eight physical cores.
     
    #476
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017
  17. Madmick Stop Spoiling My TV Life (it's the one I like)

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    ASRock Shows Coffee Lake SKUs on 1151 socket
    upload_2017-9-8_13-20-55.png
    Coffee Lake Coming With 1151 Socket, But Still Requires 300-Series Chipset
    If you're paying attention, then the answer is yes, the Coffee Lake processors will ship without the top-end Z390 chipset motherboards at launch. One might assume from the graph that is intended as the upgraded chipset coinciding with the oncoming "tock" refresh to the generation in the latter half of 2018, but then it doesn't make sense where Ice Lake fits in given the recent press announcements unless it is the tock. If this doesn't convince everyone that Intel is rushing the hell out of everything, not merely their product announcement, then I don't know what else will.
    Intel's Coffee Lake will launch without its top-end motherboard chipset

     
    #477
  18. Madmick Stop Spoiling My TV Life (it's the one I like)

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    Report: AMD Stealing Significant Market Share, Revenue from Intel
    I've been watching the AMD stock waiting for it to jump. First, they steamroll Intel's server business with a CPU launch that includes octacore CPUs that nearly match Intel's editing/server CPUs for less than half the price; second, they're able to hike their GPU product launch $100 across the line immediately prior to its release, when one has to assume the original pricing would have been yielding a profit already, and nobody bats an eye because of the cryptocurrency craze, and the fact that Vega dominates cryptomining. Now it looks like the Ryzen 3 and Ryzen 5 processors are devouring Intel's gaming supremacy, too.
     
    #478
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  19. Madmick Stop Spoiling My TV Life (it's the one I like)

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    European Coffee Lake pricing leaked:
    Leaked Prices Reveal Stunning Intel 8th Generation Coffee Lake CPUs: Six Cores From $300
    upload_2017-9-11_9-22-50.jpeg

    Conversion Key:
    €1.0 EUR = $1.2 USD



    Much better, Intel. Now you're getting it. Basically we just saw ~$225 price cut off the MSRP of the i7-6850K series of old "-E" architecture releases: that has become the i7-8700K, now (gamer friendly: higher frequency, a bit less cache). Meanwhile, the i5-8600K should bring what used to be the i7-7700K level of performance into the sub-$300 territory. Finally, the i3-8350K takes over where the i5-7600K left off. The US price may be as low as $199, so that is also a reduction off the flagship i5's price going back a decade.

    Thank you, AMD. Thank you, capitalism.
     
    #479
  20. jefferz Gold Belt

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    The i3 line is still garbage. An R3 1200 can be oc'd to the same speeds at the i3-8300, and it's cheaper.
    If the i3-8350k comes in at $200, I'd spend the extra $15 and go with a R5-1600 all day, erry day. It's got 2/8 more cores, double the L3 cache, a cheaper mobo, and a lower TDP. Only reason to go with an i3 would be for Optane or wanting on board graphics
    Good lord, $465 for the 8700k. If I don't have to upgrade motherboards, I may consider it.
    I wonder what the Pentium line will look like.
     
    #480
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017

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