Obscurity of Shoot Boxing

[Heartbell]

Here's a good look at the women's Shoot Boxing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlGuw_fTm6w

 

[FRANKIE 保憲]

The pants and shin pads came from the old UWF, which was founded a year before Shootboxing, by Satoru Sayama, the first tiger mask and good friend of Caesar Takeshi. If you watch old Shooto events, they wear the same ring attire.

 

[AmericanParadox]

Do they still have the men's S-Cup annually?

 

[Heartbell]

Do they still have the men's S-Cup annually?

Biannually.

 

[kenshinx90]

Biannually.

Damn,But are there other shoot-boxing organizations? because i doubt you could live off the money from 2 fights a year.

 

[Snubnoze707]

Damn,But are there other shoot-boxing organizations? because i doubt you could live off the money from 2 fights a year.

Most if not all of the S-Cup competitors also compete in Kickboxing/Muay Thai and even MMA.

 

[Heartbell]

Damn,But are there other shoot-boxing organizations? because i doubt you could live off the money from 2 fights a year.

That would be semi-annually. Bi = two, semi = half; bi-annually = once every two years; semi-annually = twice a year. The men's S-Cup is bi-annually, it's hosted every two years, but the S-Cup is the name of their one-night, eight man tournament. Shoot Boxing puts on cards all the time. There were two in August, for example.

 

[Fire of Youth]

You're thinking of "shootfighting". Shootboxing is an organization/promotion that was started by Caesar Takeshi 25 years ago that allows strikes, clinching, takedowns, and submission holds from standing. It's got a niche following in Japan but not big enough to make it a "big deal" in North America, although it has a certain degree of involvement in Southeast Asia and the Netherlands.

For TS, here's plenty of info... but you're SOL if you can't read Japanese haha.
Shootboxing Homepage
http://shootboxing.org/new/
Top fighters list:
http://shootboxing.org/new/rank/
Official FB:
https://www.facebook.com/shootboxing
Official Twitter:
https://twitter.com/SHOOT_BOXING

I stand corrected.

 

[Harukaze]

I stand corrected.

No worries, like TS said, it IS obscure. :icon_lol:

 

[dsdoubled]

I'm recently getting into Shoot Boxing quite a bit. But trying to find info on it leaves me with more questions than answers.

Why is it so hard to find good info on shoot boxing in English? It seems absurd in the age of technology. It's obviously at least marginally popular in Japan, having attracted guys like Buakaw.

Some of the things I'm having trouble finding:
-Any current rankings (even then Japanese pages seem to be years out of date)
- Upcoming events, recent results
- Any info on the US rep for shoot boxing
- any other orgs? Or just the one created by Caesar Takeshi?
-What is the structure? Are there feeder gyms in Jpn?
-Most info says this is an org as well as a MA style. Are there levels or rankings or anything? Are there specific techniques?
-what's up with the belts on the spats?
-can anyone give me any good links for Shoot Boxing info?
- what is the reason for the lack of proliferation of Shoot Boxing awareness?

Please take into consideration I'm a SB/ Kickboxing neophyte and search function doesn't work on my tablet, thanks!

Its funny someone in a recent thread linked this thread when I brought up S Cup. Its very interesting to me as well. Over the years I have come across little tidbits like Mark Hominick, Toby Imada, Carlos Condit, and a few other well known MMAers who took shootboxing matches early on to stay busy, get experience, make money, etc. How much have you uncovered in the last 4 years?

 

[KenkaBancho]

Most if not all of the S-Cup competitors also compete in Kickboxing/Muay Thai and even MMA.

I actually think most of them have other jobs (fitness trainers etc.) and can't rely on pro fighting to pay bills.

Stylistically, i don't see Shootboxing as being different from muay thai but with different clinching rules. I think the shootboxing gym's (Caesar's and Rena's and Mio's) trainer is Thai.

In terms of presentation, i think the tights and pads look cool. It's almost a modern tradition (replacing the gis and mongkols).

Also look out for Kaito who is their next big "ace".

 

[Bluesbreaker]

I actually think most of them have other jobs (fitness trainers etc.) and can't rely on pro fighting to pay bills.

Stylistically, i don't see Shootboxing as being different from muay thai but with different clinching rules. I think the shootboxing gym's (Caesar's and Rena's and Mio's) trainer is Thai.

In terms of presentation, i think the tights and pads look cool. It's almost a modern tradition (replacing the gis and mongkols).

Also look out for Kaito who is their next big "ace".

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that the majority of Japanese fighters, kickboxers, shootboxers, MMA fighters, etc, are fighting and training part time.

 

[KenkaBancho]

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that the majority of Japanese fighters, kickboxers, shootboxers, MMA fighters, etc, are fighting and training part time.

You're not wrong. Outside of the top 1%, most rely on other things to make a living. It's such a bunch of niche sports and there's very little money or fame in it. But i guess that's true of pro fight sports generally. What's sad about the whole thing is when they retire. Some can afford to have gyms (Lion Takeshi just opened one and Kazuyuki Miyata still coaches) but others fade into obscurity even if it at one point they were world famous (Sakurai, Mitsuhiro Ishida). This is less common in the US.

For shootboxing, I think Hiroki Shishido still competes but no idea what happened to my all time favourite, Takaaki Umeno.

 

[SuperLuigi]

I actually think most of them have other jobs (fitness trainers etc.) and can't rely on pro fighting to pay bills.

Stylistically, i don't see Shootboxing as being different from muay thai but with different clinching rules. I think the shootboxing gym's (Caesar's and Rena's and Mio's) trainer is Thai.

In terms of presentation, i think the tights and pads look cool. It's almost a modern tradition (replacing the gis and mongkols).

Also look out for Kaito who is their next big "ace".

I could be wrong but I think shootboxing allow takedowns that attack the legs. If so its more like Sanda than MT. The tights are pretty cool.

 

[KenkaBancho]

I could be wrong but I think shootboxing allow takedowns that attack the legs. If so its more like Sanda than MT. The tights are pretty cool.

I'm really not 100% on the shoot point rules. AFAIK you can't double leg anyone but you can judo throw/trip or suplex (unlike muay thai rules). But what scores is a bit confusing to me since it's not really like scoring an ippon in judo either e.g. foot sweeps don't seem to score but headlock takedowns do. The standing subs look pretty silly though - i remember Andy Souwer-Hinata where Souwer purposely messed up a flying knee so he could get behind Hinata to choke him out.

That said in principle I do like their throw rules better than MTs since it gives the Japanese judo-based fighters a fairer shake in the clinch.

 

[Snubnoze707]

My problem with the throws is they score way too much. Shootboxing has also had some really bad decisions as well. Overall it's a cool promotion and fun to watch though.

 

[KenkaBancho]

This was one of Kaito's breakout performances a few years back. Very nice (accidental?) counter to the muay thai sweep.

They also upload a lot stuff on their youtube channel but it's all in japanese.

 

[SuperLuigi]

I'm really not 100% on the shoot point rules. AFAIK you can't double leg anyone but you can judo throw/trip or suplex (unlike muay thai rules). But what scores is a bit confusing to me since it's not really like scoring an ippon in judo either e.g. foot sweeps don't seem to score but headlock takedowns do. The standing subs look pretty silly though - i remember Andy Souwer-Hinata where Souwer purposely messed up a flying knee so he could get behind Hinata to choke him out.

That said in principle I do like their throw rules better than MTs since it gives the Japanese judo-based fighters a fairer shake in the clinch.

Im pretty sure shoot points only come from throws, but I think you can still use a double leg as a low scoring move or just to frustrate your opponent. I remember Jessica Penne went to shootboxing and did this.

 

[Bluesbreaker]

This was one of Kaito's breakout performances a few years back. Very nice (accidental?) counter to the muay thai sweep.

They also upload a lot stuff on their youtube channel but it's all in japanese.

Eat your heart out Tony Pettis. This is now my favourite kick!

 

[tru3f4n]

You're not wrong. Outside of the top 1%, most rely on other things to make a living. It's such a bunch of niche sports and there's very little money or fame in it. But i guess that's true of pro fight sports generally. What's sad about the whole thing is when they retire. Some can afford to have gyms (Lion Takeshi just opened one and Kazuyuki Miyata still coaches) but others fade into obscurity even if it at one point they were world famous (Sakurai, Mitsuhiro Ishida). This is less common in the US.

For shootboxing, I think Hiroki Shishido still competes but no idea what happened to my all time favourite, Takaaki Umeno.

I remember them trying to pass Umeno off as the next big thing after Kenichi Ogata and Hiroki Shishido he just seem to fall off the map after the Bovy fight.