O Canada: Government set to alter the National Anthem for "gender neutral" purposes.

[UpaLoompa]

I've noticed Pan becoming disturbingly "progressive" since I first started posting on Sherdog.

Quality post, tell us more about @panamaican 's disturbing traits. What's funny is that you consider a guy who actually votes for "conservatives" and has held office in that party to be progressive simply because he acknowledges a reality you refuse to see.

 

[SammyPops]

Status Of Women Minister?

and the ladyfolk eat this shit up. I sat around with my wife, mother-in-law, her sister, and her sister's daughter (all visiting us) when Justin announced his 1/2 female cabinet.

its like all the women in my house won the fucking lottery or got a new dress or something.

To the OP- I could not give a fuck. I just wish our government focused on real shit, like you know trade with Asian, the Russians in the Artic, properly vetting the 25K musslim refuges from syria.

 

[IDL]

and the ladyfolk eat this shit up. I sat around with my wife, mother-in-law, her sister, and her sister's daughter (all visiting us) when Justin announced his 1/2 female cabinet.

its like all the women in my house won the fucking lottery or got a new dress or something.

To the OP- I could not give a fuck. I just wish our government focused on real shit, like you know trade with Asian, the Russians in the Artic, properly vetting the 25K musslim refuges from syria.

It's weird. The push for Feminism has created a sort of 'Women tribe' where they are put off against men in some sort of competition.

 

[SammyPops]

It's weird. The push for Feminism has created a sort of 'Women tribe' where they are put off against men in some sort of competition.

what also really threw me was that none of the ladyfolk who much if anything about any of the women in the cabinet.

 

[UpaLoompa]

Trudeau is appointing people into government positions because of their race and gender and not their ability

I'm quite certain that this isn't the case. What Trudeau (and the oft lambasted examples with Obama) is doing is appointing people that are qualified and that aren't always white and male. The reality is that appointments have always taken into account a variety of different factors. This most often has been in the form of repaying political favors, hence an "old boys network" of white men. If Trudeau is taking into account something besides just backroom favors you should view that as a good thing, I don't recall you bemoaning the political appointments of Harper.

What is actually going on is that you see Trudeau appointing more women and minorities and you assuming they're not qualified.

 

[panamaican]

I've noticed Pan becoming disturbingly "progressive" since I first started posting on Sherdog.

You're making the very simple mistake of confusing what I think is going on in the world with what I think government should be doing about it.

As a small government conservative, I generally argue that government has no place in many social issues except to preserve maximum freedom for maximum people. If there needs to be government intervention then it needs to be small and very targeted.

But just because I don't believe there's a place for government in some issues, it doesn't mean that I don't think those issues are genuine.

I type some variation of this every couple of months because people genuinely seem incapable of separating social issues from government ones. All societies change. It is inevitable. All governments must adapt to changes in society. The role of good government is to accept this and adapt as unintrusively as possible. The goal of bad government is to either force changes in society or attempt to inhibit society's natural changes.

The people who label me progressive, or at least not conservative, struggle with the idea that I can support a "liberal" position philosophically while simultaneously arguing that government has no role in proactively promoting it. Government exists to serve the people and once a social movement gets enough support to enact laws through legislation then government should do so. I don't advocate attempting to prevent social change via governmental barriers...I think that's stupid. Win in the marketplace of ideas or accept that you're on the losing side of the social argument.

I realize this is too nuanced for some people but I can live with that.

 

[Chinballs]

I thought "buddy" and "guy" was gender neutral... Well buddy at least.

 

[Devout Pessimist]

You're making the very simple mistake of confusing what I think is going on in the world with what I think government should be doing about it.

As a small government conservative, I generally argue that government has no place in many social issues except to preserve maximum freedom for maximum people. If there needs to be government intervention then it needs to be small and very targeted.

But just because I don't believe there's a place for government in some issues, it doesn't mean that I don't think those issues are genuine.

I type some variation of this every couple of months because people genuinely seem incapable of separating social issues from government ones. All societies change. It is inevitable. All governments must adapt to changes in society. The role of good government is to accept this and adapt as unintrusively as possible. The goal of bad government is to either force changes in society or attempt to inhibit society's natural changes.

The people who label me progressive, or at least not conservative, struggle with the idea that I can support a "liberal" position philosophically while simultaneously arguing that government has no role in proactively promoting it. Government exists to serve the people and once a social movement gets enough support to enact laws through legislation then government should do so. I don't advocate attempting to prevent social change via governmental barriers...I think that's stupid. Win in the marketplace of ideas or accept that you're on the losing side of the social argument.

I realize this is too nuanced for some people but I can live with that.

Believe it or not, I share exactly the same view. I take back what I said about you being progressive.

 

[Devout Pessimist]

I'm quite certain that this isn't the case. What Trudeau (and the oft lambasted examples with Obama) is doing is appointing people that are qualified and that aren't always white and male. The reality is that appointments have always taken into account a variety of different factors. This most often has been in the form of repaying political favors, hence an "old boys network" of white men. If Trudeau is taking into account something besides just backroom favors you should view that as a good thing, I don't recall you bemoaning the political appointments of Harper.

What is actually going on is that you see Trudeau appointing more women and minorities and you assuming they're not qualified.

Given how the liberals have been running things, it is rather obvious that Trudeau is appointing people who are not qualified.

 

[UpaLoompa]

Given how the liberals have been running things, it is rather obvious that Trudeau is appointing people who are not qualified.

Of course you think that, which is a far cry from that actually being the case.

In reality there are always lots of qualified people and "most qualified" doesn't really mean anything because lots of subjective factors can be considered important. There's almost always a threshold for skilled positions, after that other things come into play. Bush and Harper valued people that were wealthy and who sat on the boards of business with friends, family and colleagues. Obama and Trudeau value people that bring gender or racial diversity. Those are both additional subjective criteria and yet you take more affront to the later than the former.

There was a thread awhile back about an Obama appointee and there were many posters arguing how the person only got the job because he was gay. In actuality, this person's work history was very similar to the individuals holding similar posts and very similar to his predecessors. This demonstration was met with comments like "come on, we all know he only got the job because he was gay" as though no gay person could actually be qualified--kind of like how you assume that the women and minorities aren't qualified because they're women and minorities.

 

[Devout Pessimist]

Of course you think that, which is a far cry from that actually being the case.

In reality there are always lots of qualified people and "most qualified" doesn't really mean anything because lots of subjective factors can be considered important. There's almost always a threshold for skilled positions, after that other things come into play. Bush and Harper valued people that were wealthy and who sat on the boards of business with friends, family and colleagues. Obama and Trudeau value people that bring gender or racial diversity. Those are both additional subjective criteria and yet you take more affront to the later than the former.

There was a thread awhile back about an Obama appointee and there were many posters arguing how the person only got the job because he was gay. In actuality, this person's work history was very similar to the individuals holding similar posts and very similar to his predecessors. This demonstration was met with comments like "come on, we all know he only got the job because he was gay" as though no gay person could actually be qualified--kind of like how you assume that the women and minorities aren't qualified because they're women and minorities.

Take Maryam Monsef as one example, the MP overseeing Canada's election reform. She is 30 years old, born in Afghanistan, graduated with a degree in psychology and never held a real job. Incredible qualifications .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryam_Monsef

 

[Law Talkin’ Guy]

Status Of Women Minister?

Do you even 2015 bro?

 

[UpaLoompa]

Take Maryam Monsef as one example, the MP overseeing Canada's election reform. She is 30 years old, born in Afghanistan, graduated with a degree in psychology and never held a real job. Incredible qualifications .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryam_Monsef

You haven't demonstrated that she's unqualified, you've listed the reasons you don't like her (female, immigrant).
In looking at her predecessors, her qualifications seem completely reasonable. Both her predecessors had "never had a real job". Both her predecessors were in their 30s as well.

You decided she was unqualified on the basis of her gender and her being an immigrant. You likely knew as much about her predecessors as I did.

 

[Devout Pessimist]

You haven't demonstrated that she's unqualified, you've listed the reasons you don't like her (female, immigrant).
In looking at her predecessors, her qualifications seem completely reasonable. Both her predecessors had "never had a real job". Both her predecessors were in their 30s as well.

You decided she was unqualified on the basis of her gender and her being an immigrant. You likely knew as much about her predecessors as I did.

Maryam Monsef has a psychology degree and has not worked a day in her life. How qualified can she be?

It also bothers me that Justin Trudeau was a high school Drama teacher and also taught snowboarding before he became PM. It says a lot about how much danger Canada is in with that moron running the country and why he picks people who are just as unqualified as he is.

 

[UpaLoompa]

Maryam Monsef has a psychology degree and has not worked a day in her life. How qualified can she be?

Apparently just as qualified as her two Harper appointed predecessors. They never had any "real jobs" either. Hell, one had a geology undergrad degree, how did that make him qualified?

 

[Devout Pessimist]

Apparently just as qualified as her two Harper appointed predecessors. They never had any "real jobs" either. Hell, one had a geology undergrad degree, how did that make him qualified?

The lack of serious education in our Prime Ministers is probably why Canada is falling apart.

It also bothers me that Justin Trudeau was a high school Drama teacher and taught snowboarding before he became PM. It says a lot about how much danger Canada is in with that moron running the country and why he picks people who are just as unqualified as he is.

 

[IDL]

Maryam Monsef has a psychology degree and has not worked a day in her life. How qualified can she be?

It also bothers me that Justin Trudeau was a high school Drama teacher and also taught snowboarding before he became PM. It says a lot about how much danger Canada is in with that moron running the country and why he picks people who are just as unqualified as he is.

Acting skills is an important part of politics so his drama teaching may actually come in handy for him

 

[UpaLoompa]

It also bothers me that Justin Trudeau was a high school Drama teacher and also taught snowboarding before he became PM. It says a lot about how much danger Canada is in with that moron running the country and why he picks people who are just as unqualified as he is.

It's funny, you blame Obama's ineptitude as president for Trump's rise (ignoring Obama's actual record) and yet fail to consider that Harper's ineptitude contributed to the rise of Trudeau's party.

 

[UpaLoompa]

The lack of serious education in our Prime Ministers is probably why Canada is falling apart.

So basically, you were ignorant about what the position was and determined she was unqualified based on her gender and her immigrant status. Thanks for confirming that.

 

[Devout Pessimist]

It's funny, you blame Obama's ineptitude as president for Trump's rise (ignoring Obama's actual record) and yet fail to consider that Harper's ineptitude contributed to the rise of Trudeau's party.

I have admitted in multiple threads that it was Harper's time to go and he was part of the reason people mindlessly voted for Trudeau. I even voted NDP (something I deeply regret) because I figured it was time to get Harper out of there and there is no way in hell I will vote for Trudeau. I should have voted conservative.