Nutrition and the CNS

[takeahnase]

Does anyone have any advice on battling CNS fatigue/overtraining via nutritional means?

Every time I miss max attempts on squat/deadlift I am wrecked for at least two to three days, sometimes up to a week. Symptoms experienced during this period include
- depressed mood/lack of motivation,
- lack of appetite,
- difficulties falling asleep/tiredness in the mornings.

Are there any nutritional strategies one can apply to explicitly combat temporary CNS fatigue?

E.g. increase saturated fat or fish oil intake? Are there any stimulants (preferably natural) that address CNS fatigue? Aminos that tranquilize the CNS? Etc.

Obviously, I could research this myself, but maybe somebody has some hints. Thanks for the help.

 

[Monger]

In my opinion, all you can really do is get a solid diet and make sure you're getting ample rest... same as with any overtraining conditions. Stimulants will probably burn you out even faster, though you may feel better temporarily. The CNS is a weird thing but time, rest, and good general nutrition is the only thing I know to aid in recovery of it.

Here's a thread that was posted a long time ago in S&P. The question is near identical to yours. Although, nothing was really cleared up as far as nutrition goes... ENTROPY's post on page 2 is still more than worth the read.

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f13/food-nutrient-central-nervous-system-301015/index2.html

 

[takeahnase]

Sherdog blows, I can't open the link.

Edit: Found the thread anyhow.

My general question would be whether nutritional strategies in an (temporarily) overtrained state are necessarily the same as under general conditions, or if there are methods to increase recovery that may not be optimal/feasible otherwise (e.g. it could be too expensive to drink 3l of fish oil every day, or 50% saturated fat intake may not be wise 365 days a year)

 

[Monger]

Sherdog blows, I can't open the link.

It works for me... but here's a copy and paste of ENTROPY's post.

There is no specific supplement or training program for the CNS that I'm aware of. Rather, there are certain principles that have been tweaked over the years that have shown a degree of consistent positive results with regard to CNS increase and or for that matter, CNS decrease.

One observably positive method that was derived from Eastern European Olympic lifting templates is to train with maximal weights for low reps by performing sports specific exercises with approximately 50% of your single max using an almost ballistic execution of movement. This level of speed causes the brain to fire a maximal number of muscle fibers simultaneously thus stressing your CNS without overtraining. In powerlifing, it is commonly referred to as Dynamic Effort day, or speed day. In order for the DE day to stress your CNS maximally, you must apply 100 percent effort to the bar, ie: If you bench press 400 pounds and are training with 200 pounds then you must apply 400 pounds of force to the bar.

Your CNS adapts to the specific loads placed on it, however for recovery, and to avoid CNS burnout, never train max lifts on back to back days; therefore one should allow at least 72 hours between max lifting days. Rotate your max lifts every 1 to 3 weeks thus enabling you to adapt to a high work load without compromising the heavy weights required to increase you CNS tolerance.

To further increase your ability to lift higher weight percentages for longer periods, it is necessary to reduce the percentage you lift every 4 to 6 weeks for one or more weeks at a time, so as to allow a positive healing and adaptation period. For example, start over at week 1 at roughly 77% of your single max and progressively add weight each week until you

 

[takeahnase]

Thanks. But doesn't this post address the prevention of overtraining via programming (it's essentially the WSBB template)?

 

[Monger]

Also, there are several nootropics that aren't stimulates that may help you with mood and there are several supplements that you could use in the evening to help with sleeping. Getting a better night sleep could certainly help with CNS recovery. Nootropics probably won't help with recovery but at least it could help with your mood/depression symptom.

Here are a couple nootropic threads

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f15/r...smitter-nootropic-pre-workout-formula-382882/

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f15/complete-nootropic-guide-thank-me-327142/

Here's a couple threads on sleep aids

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f15/insomnia-558615/

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f15/sleep-aids-dreaming-762863/

 

[takeahnase]

Thanks man.

 

[Monger]

Thanks. But doesn't this post address the prevention of overtraining via programming (it's essentially the WSBB template)?

It does, yes. And knowing you from S&P, I thought you

 

[Barut]

Germans have weak CNS's. That is the problem.

 

[MikeMartial]

Does anyone have any advice on battling CNS fatigue/overtraining via nutritional means?

Every time I miss max attempts on squat/deadlift I am wrecked for at least two to three days, sometimes up to a week. Symptoms experienced during this period include
- depressed mood/lack of motivation,
- lack of appetite,
- difficulties falling asleep/tiredness in the mornings.

Are there any nutritional strategies one can apply to explicitly combat temporary CNS fatigue?

E.g. increase saturated fat or fish oil intake? Are there any stimulants (preferably natural) that address CNS fatigue? Aminos that tranquilize the CNS? Etc.

Obviously, I could research this myself, but maybe somebody has some hints. Thanks for the help.

Monger linked some solid stuff.

What you're describing is classic overtraining, as you probably know. If it's temporary, and always after your max heavy compound lifts, I'd guess CNS burnout, also.

I'm going to assume your PWO and regular nutrition is spot on. Increasing overall fat intake wouldn't hurt in the least, though. And I'm going to assume you're taking in at least 3g of combined EPA/DHA. How many grams of carbs are you taking in PWO, and total daily?

What do your preWO stimulants look like? Type and dose?

Are you taking in ZMA? ZMA+Gaba is a great night time stack, and with GABA being an inhibitory neurotransmitter, it may very well help with an over-taxed CNS. Plus, it'll help you sleep. Monger has had some success with taking PS (Phosphatidyl Serine) at night to reduce cortisol---which goes bananas during overtraining. PS and PC (choline) are found in lecithin, which is why I recommended it in the post in the Pub.

 

[MikeMartial]

Chime in here, Vedic. I see you lurking. :icon_chee

 

[takeahnase]

Monger linked some solid stuff.

What you're describing is classic overtaining, as you probably know. If it's temporary, and always after your max heavy compound lifts, I'd guess CNS burnout, also.

I'm going to assume your PWO and regular nutrition is spot on. Increasing overall fat intake wouldn't hurt in the least, though. And I'm going to assume your taking in at least 3g of combined EPA/DHA. How many grams of carbs are you taking in PWO, and total daily?

What do your preWO stimulants look like? Type and dose?

Are you taking in ZMA? ZMA+Gaba is a great nightime stack, and with GABA being an inhibitory neurotransmitter, it may very well help with an over-taxed CNS. Plus, it'll help you sleep. Monger has had some success with taking PS (Phosphatidyl Serine) at night to reduce cortisol---which goes bananas during overtraining. PS and PC (choline) are found in lecithin, which is why I recommended it in the post in the Pub.

I take ZMA at 450/30mg.

I work out in the early mornings, so my shake covers pre-/peri- and post workout and contains around 150-200g of carbs ( 10/4/2 malto/dex/fruc). Total daily carbs is probably another 200g (veg, some fruit, red rice) on workout days.

I used to take around 3g EPA/DHA and recently bumped this to 4.5g.

In terms of stimulants I take 200mg caff if I feel a little tired, if the sun is up I usually take nothing.

I feel that increasing saturated fats helps, but maybe its only because I eat more total calories if I splurge on meat.

Cortisol control is probably one of the things I really have to think about, because the symptoms arise much quicker if work is stressful, even if I get sufficient rest.

 

[MikeMartial]

Cortisol control is probably one of the things I really have to think about, because the symptoms arise much quicker if work is stressful, even if I get sufficient rest.

Everything seems solid, so I'd guess cortisol, too. If this is a regular pattern, I'd suggest:

• Increasing fat intake
• PWO do contrast showers; cycle 2 minutes hot, 1 minute cold. The temp difference between hot/cold is the key. End on a cold cycle.
• Schedule in active recovery after a heavy lifting day. This could be anything from light high-ish rep lifting in a full ROM (just to break a sweat---not metcon) to LSD work.
• Try adding GABA to your ZMA. I get mine at Bulk Nutrition
• Without a doubt, add phospholipids. There's packaged cortisol blockers, but they can be pricey. Greens+ has a plethora of benefits, and lecithin is totally dirt cheap.

Speaking of active recovery, my mountain bike and a single-track trail are screaming my name. Keep us updated on how things go, Take.

 

[takeahnase]

Thanks, I will try all of this. But are you serious about the 1 minute cold? Any short cuts for that one, I'm a wuss?

 

[theNuge]

I love your posts, Mike. I feel like I'm reading a position paper.

On a side note, you seem to be on a bullet kick as of late.

 

[Monger]

That's a truck load of carbs, man. At least that's probably not the problem for your burnout. Increasing fats and total calories could possibly help but only if you

 

[Monger]

Everything seems solid, so I'd guess cortisol, too. If this is a regular pattern, I'd suggest:

• Increasing fat intake
• PWO do contrast showers; cycle 2 minutes hot, 1 minute cold. The temp difference between hot/cold is the key. End on a cold cycle.
• Schedule in active recovery after a heavy lifting day. This could be anything from light high-ish rep lifting in a full ROM (just to break a sweat---not metcon) to LSD work.
• Try adding GABA to your ZMA. I get mine at Bulk Nutrition
• Without a doubt, add phospholipids. There's packaged cortisol blockers, but they can be pricey. Greens+ has a plethora of benefits, and lecithin is totally dirt cheap.

Speaking of active recovery, my mountain bike and a single-track trail are screaming my name. Keep us updated on how things go, Take.

Great post, Mike. I forgot about the active recovery but that could help a lot.

 

[Vedic]

That's a truck load of carbs, man. At least that's probably not the problem for your burnout. Increasing fats and total calories could possibly help but only if you

 

[takeahnase]

Thanks a lot. I would be interested in #3 particularly. If you could link me up with stuff to read that would be sufficient if you don't feel like typing everything out.

In terms of sleep, I will try to add GABA to ZMA and see how that goes - my sleep is already much better since taking ZMA and quitting alcohol.

 

[Vedic]

Let me find the notebook from that time period as it was about two years ago. But I have them all in my room. Look for it later tonight.