Nutrition and the CNS

Discussion in 'Dieting / Supplement Discussion' started by takeahnase, Apr 30, 2008.

  1. takeahnase watching the swarm

    takeahnase
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2006
    Messages:
    3,272
    Likes Received:
    0
    Does anyone have any advice on battling CNS fatigue/overtraining via nutritional means?

    Every time I miss max attempts on squat/deadlift I am wrecked for at least two to three days, sometimes up to a week. Symptoms experienced during this period include
    - depressed mood/lack of motivation,
    - lack of appetite,
    - difficulties falling asleep/tiredness in the mornings.

    Are there any nutritional strategies one can apply to explicitly combat temporary CNS fatigue?

    E.g. increase saturated fat or fish oil intake? Are there any stimulants (preferably natural) that address CNS fatigue? Aminos that tranquilize the CNS? Etc.

    Obviously, I could research this myself, but maybe somebody has some hints. Thanks for the help.
     
    #1
  2. Monger Chronically Injured

    Monger
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2005
    Messages:
    4,621
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Emergency Room
    In my opinion, all you can really do is get a solid diet and make sure you're getting ample rest... same as with any overtraining conditions. Stimulants will probably burn you out even faster, though you may feel better temporarily. The CNS is a weird thing but time, rest, and good general nutrition is the only thing I know to aid in recovery of it.

    Here's a thread that was posted a long time ago in S&P. The question is near identical to yours. Although, nothing was really cleared up as far as nutrition goes... ENTROPY's post on page 2 is still more than worth the read.

    http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f13/food-nutrient-central-nervous-system-301015/index2.html
     
    #2
  3. takeahnase watching the swarm

    takeahnase
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2006
    Messages:
    3,272
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sherdog blows, I can't open the link.

    Edit: Found the thread anyhow.

    My general question would be whether nutritional strategies in an (temporarily) overtrained state are necessarily the same as under general conditions, or if there are methods to increase recovery that may not be optimal/feasible otherwise (e.g. it could be too expensive to drink 3l of fish oil every day, or 50% saturated fat intake may not be wise 365 days a year)
     
    #3
  4. Monger Chronically Injured

    Monger
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2005
    Messages:
    4,621
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Emergency Room
    It works for me... but here's a copy and paste of ENTROPY's post.

     
    #4
  5. takeahnase watching the swarm

    takeahnase
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2006
    Messages:
    3,272
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks. But doesn't this post address the prevention of overtraining via programming (it's essentially the WSBB template)?
     
    #5
  6. Monger Chronically Injured

    Monger
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2005
    Messages:
    4,621
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Emergency Room
    Also, there are several nootropics that aren't stimulates that may help you with mood and there are several supplements that you could use in the evening to help with sleeping. Getting a better night sleep could certainly help with CNS recovery. Nootropics probably won't help with recovery but at least it could help with your mood/depression symptom.

    Here are a couple nootropic threads

    http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f15/r...smitter-nootropic-pre-workout-formula-382882/

    http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f15/complete-nootropic-guide-thank-me-327142/

    Here's a couple threads on sleep aids

    http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f15/insomnia-558615/

    http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f15/sleep-aids-dreaming-762863/
     
    #6
  7. takeahnase watching the swarm

    takeahnase
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2006
    Messages:
    3,272
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks man.
     
    #7
  8. Monger Chronically Injured

    Monger
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2005
    Messages:
    4,621
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Emergency Room
    It does, yes. And knowing you from S&P, I thought you
     
    #8
  9. Barut Banned

    Barut
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2004
    Messages:
    6,356
    Likes Received:
    0
    Germans have weak CNS's. That is the problem.
     
    #9
  10. MikeMartial Senior Moderator

    MikeMartial
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2006
    Messages:
    6,401
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Lactate Threshold
    Monger linked some solid stuff.

    What you're describing is classic overtraining, as you probably know. If it's temporary, and always after your max heavy compound lifts, I'd guess CNS burnout, also.

    I'm going to assume your PWO and regular nutrition is spot on. Increasing overall fat intake wouldn't hurt in the least, though. And I'm going to assume you're taking in at least 3g of combined EPA/DHA. How many grams of carbs are you taking in PWO, and total daily?

    What do your preWO stimulants look like? Type and dose?

    Are you taking in ZMA? ZMA+Gaba is a great night time stack, and with GABA being an inhibitory neurotransmitter, it may very well help with an over-taxed CNS. Plus, it'll help you sleep. Monger has had some success with taking PS (Phosphatidyl Serine) at night to reduce cortisol---which goes bananas during overtraining. PS and PC (choline) are found in lecithin, which is why I recommended it in the post in the Pub.
     
    #10
  11. MikeMartial Senior Moderator

    MikeMartial
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2006
    Messages:
    6,401
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Lactate Threshold
    Chime in here, Vedic. I see you lurking. :icon_chee
     
    #11
  12. takeahnase watching the swarm

    takeahnase
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2006
    Messages:
    3,272
    Likes Received:
    0
    I take ZMA at 450/30mg.

    I work out in the early mornings, so my shake covers pre-/peri- and post workout and contains around 150-200g of carbs ( 10/4/2 malto/dex/fruc). Total daily carbs is probably another 200g (veg, some fruit, red rice) on workout days.

    I used to take around 3g EPA/DHA and recently bumped this to 4.5g.

    In terms of stimulants I take 200mg caff if I feel a little tired, if the sun is up I usually take nothing.

    I feel that increasing saturated fats helps, but maybe its only because I eat more total calories if I splurge on meat.

    Cortisol control is probably one of the things I really have to think about, because the symptoms arise much quicker if work is stressful, even if I get sufficient rest.
     
    #12
  13. MikeMartial Senior Moderator

    MikeMartial
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2006
    Messages:
    6,401
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Lactate Threshold
    Everything seems solid, so I'd guess cortisol, too. If this is a regular pattern, I'd suggest:
    • Increasing fat intake
    • PWO do contrast showers; cycle 2 minutes hot, 1 minute cold. The temp difference between hot/cold is the key. End on a cold cycle.
    • Schedule in active recovery after a heavy lifting day. This could be anything from light high-ish rep lifting in a full ROM (just to break a sweat---not metcon) to LSD work.
    • Try adding GABA to your ZMA. I get mine at Bulk Nutrition
    • Without a doubt, add phospholipids. There's packaged cortisol blockers, but they can be pricey. Greens+ has a plethora of benefits, and lecithin is totally dirt cheap.
    Speaking of active recovery, my mountain bike and a single-track trail are screaming my name. Keep us updated on how things go, Take.
     
    #13
  14. takeahnase watching the swarm

    takeahnase
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2006
    Messages:
    3,272
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks, I will try all of this. But are you serious about the 1 minute cold? Any short cuts for that one, I'm a wuss?
     
    #14
  15. theNuge Brown Belt

    theNuge
    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2007
    Messages:
    2,646
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Twin Cities --> Minnesota --> USA
    I love your posts, Mike. I feel like I'm reading a position paper.

    On a side note, you seem to be on a bullet kick as of late.
     
    #15
  16. Monger Chronically Injured

    Monger
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2005
    Messages:
    4,621
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Emergency Room
    That's a truck load of carbs, man. At least that's probably not the problem for your burnout. Increasing fats and total calories could possibly help but only if you
     
    #16
  17. Monger Chronically Injured

    Monger
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2005
    Messages:
    4,621
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Emergency Room
    Great post, Mike. I forgot about the active recovery but that could help a lot.
     
    #17
  18. Vedic Purple Belt

    Vedic
    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2008
    Messages:
    2,144
    Likes Received:
    0
     
    #18
  19. takeahnase watching the swarm

    takeahnase
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2006
    Messages:
    3,272
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks a lot. I would be interested in #3 particularly. If you could link me up with stuff to read that would be sufficient if you don't feel like typing everything out.

    In terms of sleep, I will try to add GABA to ZMA and see how that goes - my sleep is already much better since taking ZMA and quitting alcohol.
     
    #19
  20. Vedic Purple Belt

    Vedic
    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2008
    Messages:
    2,144
    Likes Received:
    0
    Let me find the notebook from that time period as it was about two years ago. But I have them all in my room. Look for it later tonight.
     
    #20

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "fd5733925866a04e50edd70f38dfaa35"
monitoring_string = "603ac9fff68f23709f2a42bf5e29272b"