Not in the mood. Have you ever convinced someone to have sex and is that bad?

[Mike]

Looked this up on google, and almost 100% of women disagree with this. That is fundamental to what i was saying, you don't respect their words.

Lol oh they say they disagree with it huh? Yeah, you're still really not getting it. Women are NOT logically based creatures, generally speaking. Their logic is almost entirely based on their emotions. Every single woman I have ever known constantly says contradictory things with zero self awareness.

Except for very rare exceptions, women expect men to take the initiative. There's a very clear difference between a woman that is not at all interested, and just wants you to leave her alone, from a woman that has at least some level of interest and is waiting for you to convince her. Relationships of ANY kind involve negotiation, including sexual relationships.


I've dated girls and had them pounce on me and do things to try to get me in the mood when I didn't want sex. I've also had to figure out what to do to get a girl in the mood after a long day of work. Sometimes that's dinner and a bottle of wine, sometimes it's "let's just watch a movie on the couch" then one thing leads to another. Sometimes you gotta take them out somewhere. Sometimes you have to spend the day with her cunty family. What works varies depending on the person, but again bargaining is an essential part of every kind of personal relationship,

 

[blaseblah]

When she says shes not in the mood, it's usually code for "get me in the mood."

 

[Kframe]

Lol oh they say they disagree with it huh? Yeah, you're still really not getting it. Women are NOT logically based creatures, generally speaking. Their logic is almost entirely based on their emotions. Every single woman I have ever known constantly says contradictory things with zero self awareness.

Except for very rare exceptions, women expect men to take the initiative. There's a very clear difference between a woman that is not at all interested, and just wants you to leave her alone, from a woman that has at least some level of interest and is waiting for you to convince her. Relationships of ANY kind involve negotiation, including sexual relationships.


I've dated girls and had them pounce on me and do things to try to get me in the mood when I didn't want sex. I've also had to figure out what to do to get a girl in the mood after a long day of work. Sometimes that's dinner and a bottle of wine, sometimes it's "let's just watch a movie on the couch" then one thing leads to another. Sometimes you gotta take them out somewhere. Sometimes you have to spend the day with her cunty family. What works varies depending on the person, but again bargaining is an essential part of every kind of personal relationship,

This whole post is misogynistic.

 

[Mike]

Bargaining is fine.

But what about times where you were just so turned on that it changed her mind and she became turned on seeing how hot and bothered you were?

I've had times were the gal I was with was clearly not in the 'sex now' mood and initially said 'no' or 'not now'. She then sees how hot and horney I was and how much I was into her and wanting her in that moment and that changes her mind and mood. Your passion becomes her passion and you end fucking right there on the floor or on the kitchen counter or in a coat closet at an event because one or the other of you just got so worked up and the other picks up on that energy.

Kframe says there is no compromise on this issue. You convince your gal to have sex, no matter how much she wants it after and you were abusive at best and rapey at worst.

100% true. I'm not an aggressive guy at all, but I've thrown girlfriends on the floor, or the bathroom counter etc. for a quickie. If a girl is into you, she likes an element of passion and control. In fact I used to have some of these sjw ideas and be much more passive when I was younger, until women TOLD ME flat out they like a bit more passion and spontaneity. But a lot of women don't want to tell you. Nothing dries up pussy like a long boring conversation about sex. Women want you to take the initiative and make it fun. They want you to explore where their boundaries are by seeing what you can get away with. If a girl really isn't into what you're doing, she'll make it clear through body language alone.

That is exactly how my interaction started with him. I thought he was 18 years old based on a comment of his which then kind of made sense to me.

But he is in his 30's which tells me has had very little exposure to women and thinks all women are the same sexually in the way they want to be approached. i stated he has almost a child like view of the sexual dynamic.

Yeah his comments read really odd, like a high school student or a mormon or something. It's hard to believe a grown adult can be so clueless that so much of our communication is non verbal.

 

[Aegon Spengler]

So completely disregard their words then..

No, never do that.

But, for example:

ca·dence
ˈkādns/
noun

1. 1.
   a modulation or inflection of the voice.
   "the measured cadences that he employed in the Senate"
   synonyms: intonation, modulation, lilt, accent, inflection.

Or, consider:

"Nah, I'm not in the mood"

"But honey, I love you so much. You I alone are stars, together forming a constellation I call passion.
And one day, when I need to tell myself something intelligent about love,

I’ll close my eyes and recall this room and everything in it:
My body is estrangement. This desire, perfection.
Your rejection, eyes my extinction. Make love to me."



"That's rape. Stop trying to rape me with your poems."

 

[Kframe]

No, never do that.

But, for example:

ca·dence
ˈkādns/
noun

1. 1.
   a modulation or inflection of the voice.
   "the measured cadences that he employed in the Senate"
   synonyms: intonation, modulation, lilt, accent, inflection.

Or, consider:

"Nah, I'm not in the mood"

"But honey, I love you so much. You I alone are stars, together forming a constellation I call passion.
And one day, when I need to tell myself something intelligent about love,

I’ll close my eyes and recall this room and everything in it:
My body is estrangement. This desire, perfection.
Your rejection, eyes my extinction. Make love to me."



"That's rape. Stop trying to rape me with your poems."

You should not have to coerce someone to fuck you. Respect their words. That is the entirety of my position and i wont be dissuaded by PUA bullshit.

 

[Mike]

This whole post is misogynistic.

Lol ok. Sorry if the truth is misogynistic. It's all 100% true. If you think the best and only way to communicate with women is verbally, well....

 

[Kframe]

100% true. I'm not an aggressive guy at all, but I've thrown girlfriends on the floor, or the bathroom counter etc. for a quickie. If a girl is into you, she likes an element of passion and control. In fact I used to have some of these sjw ideas and be much more passive when I was younger, until women TOLD ME flat out they like a bit more passion and spontaneity. But a lot of women don't want to tell you. Nothing dries up pussy like a long boring conversation about sex. Women want you to take the initiative and make it fun. They want you to explore where their boundaries are by seeing what you can get away with. If a girl really isn't into what you're doing, she'll make it clear through body language alone.



Yeah his comments read really odd, like a high school student or a mormon or something. It's hard to believe a grown adult can be so clueless that so much of our communication is non verbal.

This sounds rapey.. Just controlling a woman, forcing her to the ground/counter top and making her have your way with her.. Yea that is fucking romantic.

 

[Kframe]

Lol ok. Sorry if the truth is misogynistic. It's all 100% true. If you think the best and only way to communicate with women is verbally, well....

View attachment 310949

So then don't speak to women at all then? Just grunt at them and throw them to the floor and take them?

 

[BEER]

It's called respect. I respect their words. You clearly do not and that is the problem with America and it's major rape problem.

Hilariously enough, I'm agreeing with @Kframe on the complete opposite side of the ball. Not saying rape isn't a problem, but what's also a problem is what I call "grey area accusations". Men who play the "no means convince me" game, and end up behind bars for it because they made the wrong determination with a woman who was too passive, too drunk, or too fearful to put a stop to the encounter. In a climate that allows even the most minor transgressions to get people labeled as rapists/harassers, do you really want to play the game of "guess what she wants and hope you're right?" I sure as fuck don't.

Spoiler: Anecdotal Story

I knew a girl growing up. Early bloomer. In high school, she became a hard partier and a known "slut". She ended up with a story about a black guy raping her at a party. A bunch of the neighborhood guys got together and jumped the guy. Beat the dogshit out of him. I wouldn't have been shocked if they had beaten him to death.

Problem is, I was at the party that the "rape" occurred at. She was all over the guy. The whole party. Making out, grabbing his dick, getting fucking hammered. Maybe she doesn't remember it. Shit, he probably doesn't either. Maybe she was embarrassed that she got dicked down by a black guy. She came from a pretty racist white trash family. Who knows. But if you follow the "rules" of implied consent, she was consenting pretty fucking hard. But she woke up, and for one reason or another, she decided it was rape. The dude caught a vicious beating for it.

That story is burned into my head, and likely will be forever. That's why I don't fuck drunk girls. It's why I don't take "no" to mean "convince me". All it takes is the wrong woman on the wrong night and you end up in jail or worse.

To be fair, there is some wiggle-room (that still exists in the same grey-area that I don't fuck around with) in long-term relationships. Most people learn when a "no" means "talk me into it" or "give me a backrub and we'll see what happens", and when a "no" means "no". But even then, we had a thread blow up a while back about a guy who ended up going to jail for raping his wife, because he decided to play a game of "slip-it-in" while she was sleeping. We had guys in the thread basically saying "marriage is consent", so I'm not convinced the guys arguing for convincing women into having sex are entering into these engagements in good faith.

 

[MikeMcMann]

100% true. I'm not an aggressive guy at all, but I've thrown girlfriends on the floor, or the bathroom counter etc. for a quickie. If a girl is into you, she likes an element of passion and control. In fact I used to have some of these sjw ideas and be much more passive when I was younger, until women TOLD ME flat out they like a bit more passion and spontaneity. But a lot of women don't want to tell you. Nothing dries up pussy like a long boring conversation about sex. Women want you to take the initiative and make it fun. They want you to explore where their boundaries are by seeing what you can get away with. If a girl really isn't into what you're doing, she'll make it clear through body language alone.



Yeah his comments read really odd, like a high school student or a mormon or something. It's hard to believe a grown adult can be so clueless that so much of our communication is non verbal.

yup.

My current girlfriend (again being eastern european) can't stand to not have me (or her guy) be too politically correct or sjw about sex. She knows she is super hot, she knows she turns me the fuck on all the time, and she will get really mad if I don't act on it. Many times when I think it is inappropriate, she gets mad thinking I am being too cautious.

she has flat out said how much it turns it her on and can change her mood when she can see how much I want her in the moment.

Many women want to feel their men cannot resist them and want them even when they are not in the mood. that is flattery to them. And flattery can change a mood and a no to a yes.

 

[Thrawn33]

Marriage foreplay is several hours of begging.

Doing a few chores helps too...

 

[Mike]

So then don't speak to women at all then? Just grunt at them and throw them to the floor and take them?

Did I say that? Stop being silly. Why do you think men buy women drinks, flowers, presents, etc? Why do you think they give them back rubs, buy them dinner? You're acting like social interaction is simple, one dimensional, and bound by some sort of honor or purity. No. Men are wired to pursue sex, women are wired to deny sex until the man has sufficiently proven he's worth fucking.


For some girls it's buying them shit. For some girls it's appearing "alpha" and manly (hence why chicks are drawn to bad boys), for some girls it's about clicking with them emotionally or being emotionally supportive. But for most women it's a combination of all these things. It's a constant careful dance, trying every key on your keyring until one works. The more keys you have, the more options you have for any scenario that comes up.


If you want to get laid, the worst thing you can do is just listen to what a woman says. Their opinions are often completely contradictory, and they are not honest communicators. They will often say what they think sounds good, or makes them a "good girl" Because we live in a puritanical society that frowns upon female sexuality. So yes, women will often say things with the intent that you, as the MAN, should change their mind. They're testing you, and if you back off every time there's a hint of resistance you're gonna turn that vagina into the sahara desert.

 

[MikeMcMann]

This sounds rapey.. Just controlling a woman, forcing her to the ground/counter top and making her have your way with her.. Yea that is fucking romantic.

Again with your child like view that all women are the same.

As I stated up thread the last girl I dated was actually meek and mild in almost every regard and when it came to sex she absolutely wanted me to go 50 Shades of Grey on her and completely dominate and take her and give her little to no choice in the matter. When I told her I was uncomfortable with that she made us sit and talk and let me know she liked it and consented to it as a way for her to try and make me feel more comfortable and get over my inhibitions in this area.

I never did get over my inhibitions and I never went anywhere near that far with her.

Can you understand or accept that if I did however it would not only be consensual but desired or are you going to keep acting like all woman are the exact same and want it the exact same way over a mutual candle light type dinner?

Do you have any idea why books like 50 Shades of Grey are the leading genre of books purchased by woman?

 

[Mike]

This sounds rapey.. Just controlling a woman, forcing her to the ground/counter top and making her have your way with her.. Yea that is fucking romantic.

Is it still rapey if she cums so hard her eyes roll back in her head, then proceeds to text me from work the rest of the day telling me how hot it was that I just dominated her like that? Followed by pouncing on me like a cat in heat as soon as she gets home?

 

[Henry Swanson]

Bargaining is fine.

But what about times where you were just so turned on that it changed her mind and she became turned on seeing how hot and bothered you were?

I've had times were the gal I was with was clearly not in the 'sex now' mood and initially said 'no' or 'not now'. She then sees how hot and horney I was and how much I was into her and wanting her in that moment and that changes her mind and mood. Your passion becomes her passion and you end fucking right there on the floor or on the kitchen counter or in a coat closet at an event because one or the other of you just got so worked up and the other picks up on that energy.

Kframe says there is no compromise on this issue. You convince your gal to have sex, no matter how much she wants it after and you were abusive at best and rapey at worst.

There have been times when my wife has said “not now.” So I start rubbing her shoulders and back. Usually she starts getting into it and we end up fucking. If she’s still not into it I’ll let it go.

I’ve never felt rapey after that though.

 

[blaseblah]

For the record, what women say they want and what they want are two separate things. Its un-PC to say, but it's true. Sometimes they operate on a completely different level of communication than guys.

For instance, I've dated several girls where if I flat out asked them if they wanted to come back to my place and have sex they would say no. If however I invited them to a homemade dinner and we end up making out on the couch, they're 100% in.

It's all about presentation. Women want to be swept off their feet by a charming, confident guy. Not asked for sex.

 

[Kframe]

Buncha rapey sickos.

 

[MikeMcMann]

Hilariously enough, I'm agreeing with @Kframe on the complete opposite side of the ball. Not saying rape isn't a problem, but what's also a problem is what I call "grey area accusations". Men who play the "no means convince me" game, and end up behind bars for it because they made the wrong determination with a woman who was too passive, too drunk, or too fearful to put a stop to the encounter. In a climate that allows even the most minor transgressions to get people labeled as rapists/harassers, do you really want to play the game of "guess what she wants and hope you're right?" I sure as fuck don't.

Spoiler: Anecdotal Story

I knew a girl growing up. Early bloomer. In high school, she became a hard partier and a known "slut". She ended up with a story about a black guy raping her at a party. A bunch of the neighborhood guys got together and jumped the guy. Beat the dogshit out of him. I wouldn't have been shocked if they had beaten him to death.

Problem is, I was at the party that the "rape" occurred at. She was all over the guy. The whole party. Making out, grabbing his dick, getting fucking hammered. Maybe she doesn't remember it. Shit, he probably doesn't either. Maybe she was embarrassed that she got dicked down by a black guy. She came from a pretty racist white trash family. Who knows. But if you follow the "rules" of implied consent, she was consenting pretty fucking hard. But she woke up, and for one reason or another, she decided it was rape. The dude caught a vicious beating for it.

That story is burned into my head, and likely will be forever. That's why I don't fuck drunk girls. It's why I don't take "no" to mean "convince me". All it takes is the wrong woman on the wrong night and you end up in jail or worse.

To be fair, there is some wiggle-room (that still exists in the same grey-area that I don't fuck around with) in long-term relationships. Most people learn when a "no" means "talk me into it" or "give me a backrub and we'll see what happens", and when a "no" means "no". But even then, we had a thread blow up a while back about a guy who ended up going to jail for raping his wife, because he decided to play a game of "slip-it-in" while she was sleeping. We had guys in the thread basically saying "marriage is consent", so I'm not convinced the guys arguing for convincing women into having sex are entering into these engagements in good faith.

Given your experience and the story I get why you would advocate for a caution first approach.

But you in no way seem to agree with Kframe's position. In fact it is because guys like Kframe might end up being the one judging you or others that you have the caution first approach. YOu can see certain people can be completely irrational on this topic and treat everything as if black and white.

But I think it is wrong to let such fear dictate your actions. We all saw that young USC student charged with rape and immediately found guilty by th court of popular opinion when a young girl literally dragged him (looking reluctant) out of a bar on campus and was making gestures behind his back to her girlfriends that she was going to take him home and fuck him. She then regretted the exchange after and said it was rape and only the secxurity camera footage saved him. No way he wins that otherwise.

So what lesson should we all take away from that near tragedy? Never to let a girl take you home for sex because you cannot control how she views it the next day? Tough if you try to live your life that way.

 

[Mike]

For the record, what women say they want and what they are two separate things. Its un-PC to say, but it's true. Sometimes they operate on a completely different level of communication than guys.

For instance, I've dated several girls where if I flat out asked them if they wanted to come back to my place and have sex they would say no. If however I invited them to a homemade dinner and we end up making out on the couch, they're 100% in.

It's all about presentation. Women want to be swept off their feet by a charming, confident guy. Not asked for sex.