North Korea Continues Full Speed with Nuclear and Missile Programs

[Deleted member 457759]

All Trump did was strengthen their position, as can be evidenced by events since the summit. Everyone with any sense predicted this.

Also, you wrote all that crap out, and didn't even answer my question.

Again, what was the diplomatic achievement?

What did the summit actually accomplish?

Dialogue. Nothing was ever going to happen over night. It's like you guys set an impossible timeline for success and then once it passed you screech about everything being over.

Trump and Kim will meet again soon. You know what kind of guy Trump is, hes not going to let Kim punk him like this. Kim is solidifying his bargaining power right now, that's it.

If Kim lies to Trump about what hes doing Trump will bail. We dont know for sure what's happening right now. My position is that we should reserve judgement until it truly fails because the potential for an incredibly positive outcomes if it succeeds is so great.

 

[HomerThompson]

Dialogue. Nothing was ever going to happen over night. It's like you guys set an impossible timeline for success and then once it passed you screech about everything being over.

Trump and Kim will meet again soon. You know what kind of guy Trump is, hes not going to let Kim punk him like this. Kim is solidifying his bargaining power right now, that's it.

If Kim lies to Trump about what hes doing Trump will bail. We dont know for sure what's happening right now. My position is that we should reserve judgement until it truly fails because the potential for an incredibly positive outcomes if it succeeds is so great.

You called it a diplomatic achievement. Again, what was the achievement?

We have already had dialogue with NK. That's not an achievement.

 

[Deleted member 457759]

You called it a diplomatic achievement. Again, what was the achievement?

We have already had dialogue with NK. That's not an achievement.

There has been no meaningful Dialogue for decades and everyone knows it. Stop trying to rewrite history to support your narrative. America and the world sat back for decades while the Chinese leaked technology secrets to NK and circumvented sanctions.

It's a diplomatic achievement to have shaken up things by reversing tactics and becoming aggressive, which drew a weak Kim to be open to dialogue. Intelligence suggests Kim spent most of his trust fund and the sanctions were taking their toll. His military is very old too, he wont be able to keep in going for much longer without dumping billions he doesnt have into it. The north korean people are starving. Kim has every reason to make a deal. Is he trying to hang on to his God status? Obviously but it doesnt mean hes openly ignoring negotiations. Hes just driving a hard bargain.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

You still haven't explained how the US somehow lost any sort of position because of this meeting. You're seriously arguing that they held a meeting over his head? For what? What is the harm in giving it to him? It's a meeting. You seriously think Kim was ever going to tone his shit down over not giving a meeting to him? That's ridiculous. What is so wrong or "dangerous" about talking to him, and actually getting him on the record, and holding him up to an agreement?



LOL, "maybe"? Of course the US can go back to fucking them up. What's stopping them?

Also, despite the nuclear thing not being immediately solved('cause that's totally reasonable), NK has shown signs of diplomacy. They aren't launching missiles, they have dismantled some facilities, and they returned remains from the Korean war. They are making an effort. You're acting like absolutely nothing has happened, and they're right back to launching missiles over Japan.

You're either naive or just insincere. Trump gave up joint maneuvers without getting anything real in return. With China, and even the EU, fuming over tariffs what's going to pressure them to enforce sanctions? They have successfully developed their nuclear delivery capacity so further tests aren't vital for them. Maybe they couldn't reach the continental US but just detonating all their nuclear material anywhere one the planet would cause a worldwide catastrophe.

 

[HomerThompson]

There has been no meaningful Dialogue for decades and everyone knows it. Stop trying to rewrite history to support your narrative. America and the world sat back for decades while the Chinese leaked technology secrets to NK and circumvented sanctions.

It's a diplomatic achievement to have shaken up things by reversing tactics and becoming aggressive, which drew a weak Kim to be open to dialogue. Intelligence suggests Kim spent most of his trust fund and the sanctions were taking their toll. His military is very old too, he wont be able to keep in going for much longer without dumping billions he doesnt have into it. The north korean people are starving. Kim has every reason to make a deal. Is he trying to hang on to his God status? Obviously but it doesnt mean hes openly ignoring negotiations. Hes just driving a hard bargain.

What was the diplomatic achievement? What breakthrough was there?

 

[Deleted member 457759]

What was the diplomatic achievement? What breakthrough was there?

Opening up meaningful negotiations.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

There has been no meaningful Dialogue for decades and everyone knows it. Stop trying to rewrite history to support your narrative. America and the world sat back for decades while the Chinese leaked technology secrets to NK and circumvented sanctions.

It's a diplomatic achievement to have shaken up things by reversing tactics and becoming aggressive, which drew a weak Kim to be open to dialogue. Intelligence suggests Kim spent most of his trust fund and the sanctions were taking their toll. His military is very old too, he wont be able to keep in going for much longer without dumping billions he doesnt have into it. The north korean people are starving. Kim has every reason to make a deal. Is he trying to hang on to his God status? Obviously but it doesnt mean hes openly ignoring negotiations. Hes just driving a hard bargain.

NK was one of the few things I gave Trump credit for. As you say the sanctions "were" taking a toll and led to Kim's charm offensive. Things don't seem to be going so well anymore and for us the meeting hasn't produced any benefits. If you Trump supporters don't hold him accountable he's just going to keep winging things and making decisions on the spur of the moment because he thinks he's this great negotiator. When he was elected I did hope it was all just some shtick and that he would govern responsibly. By now we can see that isn't the case and unless he feels the heat from his base he won't change.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Doesn't worry me much. I'm with Trump on this. Would even agree to changing our denuclearization stance.

So literally he can do no wrong, if what we want doesn't come to fruition, doesn't matter we'll just settle for whatever?

 

[LangfordBarrow]

How am I saying that? It was a major diplomatic achievement for Trump to initiate talks when the status quo failed for decades. It's worth acknowledging.

No, it was a diplomatic for Kim and his charm offensive, Trump failed to secure any concessions other than the return of our soldiers' remains. He then goes on to claim success on them denuclearizing. Do you believe that? Doesn't it seem now that he was lying?

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Dialogue. Nothing was ever going to happen over night. It's like you guys set an impossible timeline for success and then once it passed you screech about everything being over.

Trump and Kim will meet again soon. You know what kind of guy Trump is, hes not going to let Kim punk him like this. Kim is solidifying his bargaining power right now, that's it.

If Kim lies to Trump about what hes doing Trump will bail. We dont know for sure what's happening right now. My position is that we should reserve judgement until it truly fails because the potential for an incredibly positive outcomes if it succeeds is so great.

Can we reserve judgment before we heap praise on Trump? You sure do seem to be making excuses for the guy.

 

[Damien Karras]

So what? Don't you understand how negotiations work? Things change, get better, get worse, and so on.

Wow did you think of that one all by yourself?

 

[Tiny]

People are upset that his summit was a sham. There was no purpose other than to blow smoke up Trumptard asses. This problem goes back at least to Clinton in the 90's but you go on and keep attacking the "African" boogeyman.

There is still progress he has made to bring peace in the region, nukes or no nukes. all obama did was bring on more sanctions and nobody talked to anybody and because obama was charming nobody on here bitched about it.

so ya...

All that happened in Obama's 8 years was more sanction and tough charming talk that didn't amount to anything because NK developed nukes under his watch regardless...

 

[LangfordBarrow]

There is still progress he has made to bring peace in the region, nukes or no nukes. all obama did was bring on more sanctions and nobody talked to anybody and because obama was charming nobody on here bitched about it.

so ya...

All that happened in Obama's 8 years was more sanction and tough charming talk that didn't amount to anything because NK developed nukes under his watch regardless...

Trump's sanctions were working. He was then distracted by the need for more accomplishments, and threw away the full house he was holding, because he wanted a trade war to trumpet his negotiating skills and credit for denuclearizing NK so he'd have consideration for a Nobel. In terms of accomplishment what does anyone else's failures have to do with it? You're taking a page out of Trump's playbook by deflecting blame to Obama or anyone else.

 

[SiKnSiN]

So literally he can do no wrong, if what we want doesn't come to fruition, doesn't matter we'll just settle for whatever?

My stance on NK has stayed the same for a very long time. I've never viewed them as a threat to us. We should settle for a deal which could bring the de-escalation of tensions and long term peace. That can be achieved without denuclearization.

I backed Trump meeting with them. I back the ongoing talks. I even back the halting of joint military drills. I don't back Trump keeping SK and Japan out of the loop. I don't back Trump making false claims in regards to what has actually been accomplished. I don't back Trump praising him. And I don't really back the "denuclearization or no deal" approach.

 

[Tiny]

Trump's sanctions were working. He was then distracted by the need for more accomplishments, and threw away the full house he was holding, because he wanted a trade war to trumpet his negotiating skills and credit for denuclearizing NK so he'd have consideration for a Nobel. In terms of accomplishment what does anyone else's failures have to do with it? You're taking a page out of Trump's playbook by deflecting blame to Obama or anyone else.

Double standard of impatience on these boards.

Obama didn't get scrutinized with impatience on his lack of progress with NK regardless of how many sanctions he piled on...

It's a typical "need to pile on the repub president because my horse didn't win"

Is it shitty that NK is still making nukes? Sure! Is the process over with? Hell no. And beyond that, I think this process has a higher chance of succeeding versus the failed sanctions we've tried in the past.

The fact that SK and NK are having peaceful dialogue now is great.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

My stance on NK has stayed the same for a very long time. I've never viewed them as a threat to us. We should settle for a deal which could bring the de-escalation of tensions and long term peace. That can be achieved without denuclearization.

I backed Trump meeting with them. I back the ongoing talks. I even back the halting of joint military drills. I don't back Trump keeping SK and Japan out of the loop. I don't back Trump making false claims in regards to what has actually been accomplished. I don't back Trump praising him. And I don't really back the "denuclearization or no deal" approach.

I basically agree with this. I do think they do pose a danger, even if it's something they wouldn't do unless the regime was going to be wiped out, because they do have the ability to detonate a lot of nuclear material. A deal like we had with Iran that would curb their ability to use weapons, would be even better, but I also agree that we don't need them to completely denuclearize.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Double standard of impatience on these boards.

Obama didn't get scrutinized with impatience on his lack of progress with NK regardless of how many sanctions he piled on...

It's a typical "need to pile on the repub president because my horse didn't win"

Is it shitty that NK is still making nukes? Sure! Is the process over with? Hell no. And beyond that, I think this process has a higher chance of succeeding versus the failed sanctions we've tried in the past.

The fact that SK and NK are having peaceful dialogue now is great.

What impatience? Trump claimed success. Let's see what happens and keep our fingers crossed for the best result.

 

[Thepaintbucket]

Only 4 pages? Where are all the Republicans on here at. Didn't we have a 80 page discussion about North Korea's denuclearization home run by Donald Trump? They just keep falling for Trumps grand headline .

So now the stance is We brought prisoners home. We opened up dialogue!! It's an on going process!! This takes time!!

Absolutely false. NK has been rewarded for his bad behavior by past administrations for the last few decades. He's going to understand very soon, he will not be rewarded for his behavior. Sanctions will continue to cripple his country. Also, he will not out "shit talk" Donald Trump.

Kim Chee Gout ain't gonna do shit. He knows if he actually dropped a bomb, he would be vaporized. He currently gets to fuck every sex slave in his country, eat and drink whatever he wants. Do you think he's going to give that up? I don't.

Will we be able to stop his nuke program, probably not, he already has them. Don't blame Trump, he was on MSNBC 20 years ago telling them they should preemptively strike so we aren't in the position we are today. Blame the last few administrations. However, we will economically cripple them, and teach the world that we don't have to reward bad behavior. Hopefully his country is so famished, someone takes the shot. That's our only real solution outside of destroying them completely, which will at least destroy the SK capital.


The only sad part is folks like you parroting his insults. History will look back at you like the folks who ignored Hitler. Sadly, you're part of a huge portion of the left that hates their own country. Whatever, we're going to MAGA with or without you.

 

[luckyshot]

Trump and Kim agreed to announce that their meeting was a sweeping success before they went into it.

It was a PR stunt for both, plain and simple.



Nothing substantive was accomplished (or probably discussed) besides the ceasing of joint military drills between South Korea and the US.

 

[Quequeg]

Trump and Kim agreed to announce that their meeting was a sweeping success before they went into it.

It was a PR stunt for both, plain and simple.



Nothing substantive was accomplished (or probably discussed) besides the ceasing of joint military drills between South Korea and the US.

Yep, Trump gave away the farm for a couple of days of good press, what wise intelligent leadership.