Noobs Trying to Coach in the Gym

When you try 10-20 times to tell the MAYBE at best MW across from you ( a HW) to go 50% and he's winging punches at your head where you hear that "woosh" sound... You drop them. Sorry, most people only have so much patience with that shit in training and for some, the best way to learn is to have the better person level you.
@georgegreece don't get me wrong. I'd rather not do it and I've only done it like 3 times and all three times my coach/instructor had to tell me:
"Stop accepting that guys throwing 100% at you with shit technique, respond back in kind and if they don't stop then we'll give them the boot out the gym"
 
@georgegreece don't get me wrong. I'd rather not do it and I've only done it like 3 times and all three times my coach/instructor had to tell me:
"Stop accepting that guys throwing 100% at you with shit technique, respond back in kind and if they don't stop then we'll give them the boot out the gym"

Oh you were quoting your own post...
All the guys trying to act tough on beginners should remember that they were also once beginners.
On a side note some beginners are black belts in other arts so be careful mucho guys.

It's much harder to control someone than to knock them out or put them to sleep, that's why there are LEGITIMATE coaches out there who can do that and that's why you are paying them, you're paying their experience not the latest Thai carbonated drink.
 
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Benny was fond of the "stfu and train" approach.

There's no reason any of those people should be talking and he was not hesitant to point that out.
 
Oh you were quoting your own post...
All the guys trying to act tough on beginners should remember that they were also once beginners.
On a side note some beginners are black belts in other arts so be careful mucho guys.

It's much harder to control someone than to knock them out or put them to sleep, that's why there are LEGITIMATE coaches out there who can do that and that's why you are paying them, you're paying their experience not the latest Thai carbonated drink.

That's true. I don't personally go hard on beginners. We're all students of the game. Most of the time I think it's amusing. I'm from the thought that if Rickson Gracie can listen to someone giving input on a style his family made famous, then I can as well.

The problem comes when guys overestimate themselves.

I think it's dangerous for new guys to coach new guys. You can be sparring partners, and make observations, but don't instruct on a craft you're green to.

Black belts in other arts are great but you have to know where you're at. There are guys in the boxing gym I'll manhandle in grappling, but this ain't rassling. lol If I wanted to work wrestling I should be where they work on wrestling.

I agree with your position. The only place I have a difference in opinion is I do not think it's easier to knock someone out than it is to control them. Wait....what do you mean by control.... pin, restrain as in grappling? Most new guys while they have the intent, they can't throw respectable punches, and they connect with air more than anything else.
 
Oh you were quoting your own post...
All the guys trying to act tough on beginners should remember that they were also once beginners.
On a side note some beginners are black belts in other arts so be careful mucho guys.

It's much harder to control someone than to knock them out or put them to sleep, that's why there are LEGITIMATE coaches out there who can do that and that's why you are paying them, you're paying their experience not the latest Thai carbonated drink.
I don't do it to act tough.

But when I and the coach and the head of the gym have told a guy 10-20 times in a SINGLE sparring session to "tone it down, this isn't a real fight" and he keeps winging punches at my head that thankfully he's missing where I can hear a wooshing noise? Nah, fuck that shit... at that stage it's for my own good I do something that makes it so he doesn't come back.

Or that guy with experience that knows you have experience and gets too amped up and then throws a spinning heel kick at your head. Liver hooks are great for both of these people cause you won't give them a concussion but you put them in a spot where, well, they won't be doing that shit ever again to you.


Like, I won't go Badr Hari and Ray Sefo in the corner on a new guy cause he can't drop his punches from 100% power level haymakers to 50% and being calm but I WILL drop them with a big time uppercut or hook to their liver area to get them to slow down/want out for a round or 2.

Every gym I've been at the vets do this when the new guys get way too uppity for their own good. It happened to me. Guy I am going to be a sparring partner for dropped me with a massive hook to the left side of my body and hit the ribs just right it separated that bottom rib and I couldn't move for 2 weeks virtually. When I got back to the gym it was a teaching moment. If a vet does that to a beginner where they drop them and put them in their place but then tell them why or show why it's needed. Pain is a great deterrent/motivator to get better/stop doing bullshit.
 
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(in my personal experience) usually if they are just approaching giving pointers i will just roll with it let them talk. giving pointers and talking about techniques they might not be telling me anything new but teaching or attempting to teach others will help you learn skills or retain information better so it helps them and it doesn't kill you to take it personal.

we are all there to learn none of us have the role of teacher unless the gym is yours but we can try our hand at it by helping or at least trying to aid each other as students, personally i don't feel like imposing a beating on someone i know is not ready for it and if you don't want to tolerate these guys i don't think you should spar with them either if they really are too green and you are frustrated with them or they are too hyper violent and don't fully understand how to practice sparring ie we are trying to improve not murder each other we all get injuries but you want to minimize that.

(to your personal situation) i think if hes that out of control you would merc the dude if you lost your patience so i don't think you are compatible i dont see either of you benefiting from it .

it sucks that your training has this drama rolled in it since we all like to escape while we train i hope it gets resolved without any trouble no hating just from my own experiences best of luck.
 
(in my personal experience) usually if they are just approaching giving pointers i will just roll with it let them talk. giving pointers and talking about techniques they might not be telling me anything new but teaching or attempting to teach others will help you learn skills or retain information better so it helps them and it doesn't kill you to take it personal.

we are all there to learn none of us have the role of teacher unless the gym is yours but we can try our hand at it by helping or at least trying to aid each other as students, personally i don't feel like imposing a beating on someone i know is not ready for it and if you don't want to tolerate these guys i don't think you should spar with them either if they really are too green and you are frustrated with them or they are too hyper violent and don't fully understand how to practice sparring ie we are trying to improve not murder each other we all get injuries but you want to minimize that.

(to your personal situation) i think if hes that out of control you would merc the dude if you lost your patience so i don't think you are compatible i dont see either of you benefiting from it .

it sucks that your training has this drama rolled in it since we all like to escape while we train i hope it gets resolved without any trouble no hating just from my own experiences best of luck.

That's a great take. I agree, you can really test your understanding if you are able to teach. The gym culture is weird where I train. I don't want to get into gym bashing, let alone the one I go to. lol. Maybe I need to buy some wireless headphones, and people will get it. lol.

I was just over it that day; I took today off. I just don't want to come out of character, and say something rude. It never feels good to me being the dick after it's all said and done. I wish fight culture wasn't so cocky, and everyone trying to be the biggest dog on the yard. Yeah....thanks for the input. Respect.
 
^^Yeah but there's a reason for chain of command protocol. If someone brand new, or one of the least experienced people there, and they have a habit of speaking authoritatively...chances are it's born purely of ego. They are not looking to study, they are looking for affirmation. They take comfort in pointing out the flaws of others as opposed to working on their own. This is a narcissistic habit, and it's almost never constructive. Good students tend to understand that they must earn the ability to guide, not just impose what's in their head because they feel the need to.
 
^^Yeah but there's a reason for chain of command protocol. If someone brand new, or one of the least experienced people there, and they have a habit of speaking authoritatively...chances are it's born purely of ego. They are not looking to study, they are looking for affirmation. They take comfort in pointing out the flaws of others as opposed to working on their own. This is a narcissistic habit, and it's almost never constructive. Good students tend to understand that they must earn the ability to guide, not just impose what's in their head because they feel the need to.

Absolutely. Most times it is coming from desiring affirmation, which is stroking the ego. I don't know why you would want to teach if you are new.....why did you come there in the first place? People can be funny that way sometimes. Everybody wants to be the head honcho these days. lol
 
Who cares, these guys don’t last anyway. They can coach me all they want.

I just stay quiet or give them an ‘ohh/uh huh/ya’
 
What's worst than beginners trying to teach their stuff is beginners who play coaches or as I call them fake coaches, call them out wherever you can, except if you're a douchebag yourself.
It's like beginner giving out shit technique for free vs. beginner giving out shit technique for money.
 
I was a bit like this, kinda stupid and for some reason thought I was helping. Some guy just said 'I don't need help thanks'. That's all you need to say: 'I don't need help thanks'.
 
^I find that doesn't deter the narcissist from just attempting the same thing on everyone in the Gym and thinking it's cool because of the few people who tolerate it. This is a subject I'm going to tackle when I finally make the Youtube series about how to survive in Boxing Gyms.

After over a decade in Vegas Gyms, I realize that Boxing and MMA are two of the ONLY Sports that tolerate this nonsense. Even McDojo's have better etiquette and adherence to protocol. And this is one of the things that makes our Sports havens for the insecure and mentally weak. That in allegedly one of the most harsh Sports environments, pretenders can survive and even thrive because no one "wants to be mean about it." Be mean, it's a Gym for fighting and pretenders often either injure other people with their in-ring antics, waste the time of others, or can actually get others hurt if they're listened to by unsuspecting novices.
 
After over a decade in Vegas Gyms, I realize that Boxing and MMA are two of the ONLY Sports that tolerate this nonsense. Even McDojo's have better etiquette and adherence to protocol.
Might be due to the hierarchical system in TMA gyms

I feel its more of a times thing, gyms in the 70s-80s didn't tolerate that nonsense, they were rougher about it then too. These days no one wants to have their gym blasted on yelp/FB as the gym that's too "hardcore"
 
Might be due to the hierarchical system in TMA gyms

I feel its more of a times thing, gyms in the 70s-80s didn't tolerate that nonsense, they were rougher about it then too. These days no one wants to have their gym blasted on yelp/FB as the gym that's too "hardcore"

watering down of muay thai in america!
 
watering down of muay thai in america!
Everything gets watered down, I remember how BJJ dudes in early 2000s said it would never happen to them because they're "strict" on belt ranking, and now we have guard-pullers, peeps who complain about getting slammed when they jump guard, butt scooters, generation of BJJ'rs who don't know how to deal with striking and shut down badly.
 
I really don't understand why so many people hate it when other students try to help them. Personally, I rely on it and it is one of the best things about training in a gym, as opposed to training by yourself. I can attempt to be using clean technique but, as we all do, we can fall into bad habits without realising it. I rely on my training partner to tell me when these bad habits start creeping in. Newbs may not always know what is good or bad but it is important to me that they be allowed to comment on what they see. Similarly, experienced coaches/fighters may want me doing something which they personally prefer. I don't fob it off that they don't understand what I am attempting to do. I do what they want, show them that I can do it, and then comment on what I was trying to do and ask if I wasn't doing that. Often newbs and experienced coaches alike, will accept this and be more open to my own preferred techniques, even when it conflicts with what they prefer.

I found that when I first started instructing, most of my training partners who previously felt safe enough to comment on my form/technique, suddenly stopped commenting. Bad habits started creeping in because I didn't have that constant feedback. They felt too intimidated or unqualified to critique my form; as if an instructor no longer needs to grow or stop themselves from stagnating. After about a year, I felt that I had to go and train somewhere else, where people would feel comfortable enough to critique me. Now I just train and invite my partners, newb and coach alike, to critique what I am doing. If I am struggling with a particular aspect of my form, I often ask them to pay particular attention to that and pull me up if I start slipping away from it. Every training partner has benefits, even if just their enthusiasm, but I can't access those benefits if I am too arrogant to at least consider what they say.
 
Who cares, these guys don’t last anyway. They can coach me all they want.

I just stay quiet or give them an ‘ohh/uh huh/ya’
Yup, this works for me. Doesn't create hard feelings in a community that could be very small and tends to get the point across. If they're of the dense sort and still try to correct you, thinking you're just failing at following their instructions, I give them a tight smile (signaling you want to be polite but it's an effort) and say "this way works for me." Never had an issue after that.

Sparring these people is always fun. Their expression tends to reveal that they realize them giving all those helpful pointers was only embarrassing them.
 
I really don't understand why so many people hate it when other students try to help them. Personally, I rely on it and it is one of the best things about training in a gym, as opposed to training by yourself. I can attempt to be using clean technique but, as we all do, we can fall into bad habits without realising it. I rely on my training partner to tell me when these bad habits start creeping in. Newbs may not always know what is good or bad but it is important to me that they be allowed to comment on what they see. Similarly, experienced coaches/fighters may want me doing something which they personally prefer. I don't fob it off that they don't understand what I am attempting to do. I do what they want, show them that I can do it, and then comment on what I was trying to do and ask if I wasn't doing that. Often newbs and experienced coaches alike, will accept this and be more open to my own preferred techniques, even when it conflicts with what they prefer.

I found that when I first started instructing, most of my training partners who previously felt safe enough to comment on my form/technique, suddenly stopped commenting. Bad habits started creeping in because I didn't have that constant feedback. They felt too intimidated or unqualified to critique my form; as if an instructor no longer needs to grow or stop themselves from stagnating. After about a year, I felt that I had to go and train somewhere else, where people would feel comfortable enough to critique me. Now I just train and invite my partners, newb and coach alike, to critique what I am doing. If I am struggling with a particular aspect of my form, I often ask them to pay particular attention to that and pull me up if I start slipping away from it. Every training partner has benefits, even if just their enthusiasm, but I can't access those benefits if I am too arrogant to at least consider what they say.

We're not talking about people "trying to help" ...we're talking about people wanting to seem like they already know how to fight without earning it. Surely you don't depend on dolts who do this because what they say is rudimentary and redundant, at best...and at worst will actually get you hurt. You are talking about something else entirely.
 
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