Nog threatening with lawsuit

[Shaddows]

If you're gonna use USADA "efficiently" and save fights at the same time, the only possible way I see that happening is refusing to suspend a fighter until all commission hearings/appeals have been exhausted and put a clause into the fighters contracts that say IF they happen to end up fighting a doper, the UFC/commission/USADA is not at fault.

Like I said, two-headed snake. Really tough to say what would work and what wouldn't.

I agree with you.
But is it fair to put all the onus on the fighter (who might be completely innocent)?

 

[Draxton]

But shouldn't they test B sample BEFORE pulling the fight?
That's not what happened.

Depends on the time frame. If there is enough time to test the sample and get a result? Then yes both should be tested before pulling. But the B sample is only tested if the fighter appeals the results of the first test, right? Now lawyering up, working on a defense and appealing results takes time before the B sample may even get tested. How long between Jones (most recent) failed test and then the results of his B sample? Didn’t it take over a month to get the results finally?

I know his fight is in December, but I guess UFC is trying to be as fair as possible to his opponent and the fighter filling in so they know who they are fighting against and have time to run a full camp.

 

[Shaddows]

Depends on the time frame. If there is enough time to test the sample and get a result? Then yes both should be tested before pulling. But the B sample is only tested if the fighter appeals the results of the first test, right? Now lawyering up, working on a defense and appealing results takes time before the B sample may even get tested. How long between Jones (most recent) failed test and then the results of his B sample? Didn’t it take over a month to get the results finally?

I know his fight is in December, but I guess UFC is trying to be as fair as possible to his opponent and the fighter filling in so they know who they are fighting against and have time to run a full camp.

The thing is: if they pull the fight, there's no hurry and B sample can take months.
But making it part of the check, IMO this can be done within days.

 

[Tylerl90]

I agree with you.
But is it fair to put all the onus on the fighter (who might be completely innocent)?

No, it's not. But therein lies the problem.... How do you calculate the risk of NOT pulling the fighter from the contest and something terrible happening?

 

[Brettco]

Link



I do believe that USADA is doing its job, but how many fights have been scrapped before proving the fighter is indeed guilty? Is this correct?
After all, most have paid for training camp that includes their trainers, sparring partners, location, etc.
And they don't get their money back. So is it fair to the fighter?

But if the fight is not cancelled, is it fair to the opposing fighter?
I know it is a complex issue... but what would be the best option?

What think you?

I want UFC class for fighters wanting to bypass USADA

 

[suffersystem]

Link



I do believe that USADA is doing its job, but how many fights have been scrapped before proving the fighter is indeed guilty? Is this correct?
After all, most have paid for training camp that includes their trainers, sparring partners, location, etc.
And they don't get their money back. So is it fair to the fighter?

But if the fight is not cancelled, is it fair to the opposing fighter?
I know it is a complex issue... but what would be the best option?

What think you?

Far as I know they are Considered guilty. They were indeed flagged for a substance, and it is now up to the fighter wether they want to get B sample tested and appeal the decision. This is not really a case of innocent until proven guilty as far as I know. the sample came back with whatever substance, so therefore it is now on the fighter themselves to ask for the other sample tested and to build a defence, as far as USADA is concerned they already have their proof with the original sample.

 

[Shaddows]

No, it's not. But therein lies the problem.... How do you calculate the risk of NOT pulling the fighter from the contest and something terrible happening?

You don't. But you work with USADA to expedite B-sample, so you know (at least) that it is not a contaminated sample.
Or you (at least) work a way to compensate the fighter in case they are innocent.
And sure as hell, pay the other fighter that had nothing to do with this issue.

 

[Draxton]

No, it's not. But therein lies the problem.... How do you calculate the risk of NOT pulling the fighter from the contest and something terrible happening?

Bingo. Better to err on the side of caution. There is less risk and liability to pull a fighter before a fight than to punish him after if he did indeed take peds.

I know this is just a diuretic here, but was he using it to flush his system of an actual enhancer? A 4 billion dollar company can’t take that risk.

 

[DWAYNEAMERICA]

We put so much faith in these testing agencies because we assume they follow scientific protocols and that their results are beyond question. However...there have been many cases where there has been gross negligence that has resulted in horrific consequences to people's lives.

A recent case in point is the Children's Motherisk Labroatories and their role in tearing families apart with their faulty testing...

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...prompts-review-of-ontarios-forensic-labs.html

For an in-depth look into more situations, where faulty science has seriously fucked up innocent people's lives, check out this deep dive by Last Week Tonight. Even if you hate John Oliver (I love him) you can't argue with the facts he presents.



All I'm saying is this...give these athletes a reasonable chance to defend themselves.

 

[Tylerl90]

You don't. But you work with USADA to expedite B-sample, so you know (at least) that it is not a contaminated sample.
Or you (at least) work a way to compensate the fighter in case they are innocent.
And sure as hell, pay the other fighter that had nothing to do with this issue.

You still have the issue of the hearings and attempting to prove innocence.. The B-sample doesn't mean a whole lot. The only way a B-sample comes back with a different result is probably an error in collection or testing. 99% of the time, it'll return the same result. The testing itself takes long enough, but the hearings and appeals are where time adds up quickly.

 

[Pitier of Fools]

Link



I do believe that USADA is doing its job, but how many fights have been scrapped before proving the fighter is indeed guilty? Is this correct?
After all, most have paid for training camp that includes their trainers, sparring partners, location, etc.
And they don't get their money back. So is it fair to the fighter?

But if the fight is not cancelled, is it fair to the opposing fighter?
I know it is a complex issue... but what would be the best option?

What think you?

What's the point of going forward with a fight when it's going to end up being a no contest anyway? What percentage of people who pop end up getting exhonerated?

 

[Shaddows]

You still have the issue of the hearings and attempting to prove innocence.. The B-sample doesn't mean a whole lot. The only way a B-sample comes back with a different result is probably an error in collection or testing. 99% of the time, it'll return the same result. The testing itself takes long enough, but the hearings and appeals are where time adds up quickly.

I agree.
but what can be done? Maybe push the fight a couple of months and (again) expedite testing & defense?

 

[Tylerl90]

I agree.
but what can be done? Maybe push the fight a couple of months and (again) expedite testing & defense?

I suppose, but that still doesn't remedy their immediate situation. They already spent truck loads of money on the camp, and then they'll have to spend more money on camp for an indefinite amount of time?

 

[WAR RANDLEMAN!]

nog can't even read or write his own name how is he going to file a lawsuit? will he pelt ufc lawyers with dung?

 

[PokerMage]

Look at the end of the day like for every human on the planet the fighters need to take responsibility for what they put in there body.

And using supplements that are comp'd or that guys are using around the gym. The latest newest thing you just have to try.

Your just asking to pop hot.

and im a cynic, not everyone who uses this defense is actually telling the truth.

Frankly i dont have to much sympathy but Lil Nog will go in the Machida pile of guys who thou pissed hot never competed hot and caught. Im a fan of most of these guys and respect fighters a ton for what they go thru. So i do have sympathy

But still at the end of the day, if you willing drank it or ate it or rubbed it on your body and you piss hot well ill seeya after your suspension.

 

[accolyte1022]

I agree.
but what can be done? Maybe push the fight a couple of months and (again) expedite testing & defense?

The defense rarely (if ever) wants to expedite.

Then again this is on USADA's website:

The “B” sample opening and analysis typically occur within 10 working days after the Adverse Analytical Finding report by the laboratory.

https://www.usada.org/resources/faq/

 

[Stoic1]

It's quite a two-headed snake don't you think?

On one hand, I believe in due process and that there have been fights scrapped needlessly due to tainted supplements, testing errors, or whatever mistakes might've took place. There are fighters that have been hit by USADA who were legitimately innocent of all charges.

On the other, if you don't cancel the fight and a fighter gets fucked up by a fighter on steroids, what're you gonna do? That's a lawsuit waiting to happen.

Was Brock part of this potential lawsuit?

Because *EVERYONE* knew that motherfucker was on the juice. And the UFC promoted him anyways.

 

[Oooxente]

Link



I do believe that USADA is doing its job, but how many fights have been scrapped before proving the fighter is indeed guilty? Is this correct?
After all, most have paid for training camp that includes their trainers, sparring partners, location, etc.
And they don't get their money back. So is it fair to the fighter?

But if the fight is not cancelled, is it fair to the opposing fighter?
I know it is a complex issue... but what would be the best option?

What think you?

Hard pill to swallow but IMHO as an athlete you NEED to be completely aware of EVERYTHING that surrounds you in this times and IF what Rogerio saying is actually true he needs to use the law to clean his name.
And
IF this is actually a mistake made by someone else THEN USADA/UFC need to use THEIR power to WARRANT the athlete the right to have his name Cleaned.

 

[Tylerl90]

Was Brock part of this potential lawsuit?

Because *EVERYONE* knew that motherfucker was on the juice. And the UFC promoted him anyways.

Never failed before UFC 200.

 

[HaulParris]

Nog needs to retire

100% agreed.