No Limit Hold 'Em Poker Discussion

Its amazing how different crowds play the game. Playing against the 60-70yo crowd is nothing like being at a table of 30-40yo
Theres definitely variation among age groups, but Id say the variation is significantly greater in the on-line crowd vs the brick-and-mortar crowd. I did both a lot back in the day, and the discrepancies in the style of play that generally win was enormous. The on-line game favors a much looser, more aggressive style of play. In a way, it favors poor play more, as to keep the money spread out, and people coming back.
 
Theres definitely variation among age groups, but Id say the variation is significantly greater in the on-line crowd vs the brick-and-mortar crowd. I did both a lot back in the day, and the discrepancies in the style of play that generally win was enormous. The on-line game favors a much looser, more aggressive style of play. In a way, it favors poor play more, as to keep the money spread out, and people coming back.


sounds like you are hinting that online is rigged. favors poor play?? also sounds like a losing players gripe.


you can say the payout structure is designed for the purposes you stated, flat structure is shit for good players, i miss the old 25% to winner days. You can also say the rake is now prohibitive in many online cash games, making many close to unbeatable.


Stars is greedy beyond belief. The game is also infinitely harder to beat than say 10 years ago. Online you run into great players even at low levels now. Couple that with sites being more greedy and the margins have thinned ridiculously since the "poker boom" days when you could play ABC Dan Harrington tight and make $
 
sounds like you are hinting that online is rigged. favors poor play?? also sounds like a losing players gripe.


you can say the payout structure is designed for the purposes you stated, flat structure is shit for good players, i miss the old 25% to winner days. You can also say the rake is now prohibitive in many online cash games, making many close to unbeatable.


Stars is greedy beyond belief. The game is also infinitely harder to beat than say 10 years ago. Online you run into great players even at low levels now.

Online proker isn't regulated; at least not in the states. The increase in number of hands/hr you see would account for how many strange/unusual situations a typical player can recall. But it also doesn't suggest anything the ridiculous rate at which drawing hands hit. I'm speculating here, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was discovered that the game is being manipulated to skew the probabilities.

And overall, I would say I fared ok overall online. The swings definitely bigger, as it's a faster-paced game. There's definitely adjustments that have to be made from one to the other.
 
Almost everybody serious runs a HUD that records all hands. If long term things were fishy it would show on everybody's HUD and the jig is up.

I assure you pokerstars is fair. Absolute poker where I originally started playing full time around 2006 had a leak from a former employee that could see hole cards so the system can be manipulated in that sense but it was an internal breach

It's dumb for a site making money to rig action and risk losing everything. Especially when all the pros are literally recording every single hand and sharing data in a pool if they so choose
 
Almost everybody serious runs a HUD that records all hands. If long term things were fishy it would show on everybody's HUD and the jig is up.

I assure you pokerstars is fair. Absolute poker where I originally started playing full time around 2006 had a leak from a former employee that could see hole cards so the system can be manipulated in that sense but it was an internal breach

It's dumb for a site making money to rig action and risk losing everything. Especially when all the pros are literally recording every single hand and sharing data in a pool if they so choose
is that Jew Mark Sheinberg...
 
Almost everybody serious runs a HUD that records all hands. If long term things were fishy it would show on everybody's HUD and the jig is up.

I assure you pokerstars is fair. Absolute poker where I originally started playing full time around 2006 had a leak from a former employee that could see hole cards so the system can be manipulated in that sense but it was an internal breach

It's dumb for a site making money to rig action and risk losing everything. Especially when all the pros are literally recording every single hand and sharing data in a pool if they so choose

Good point. Though in an industry like that, I would take everything with a grain of salt, until some sort of comphrehensive data is out there. Which, in the absence of, all we have to go off of is our own observations and anecdotal experience.
 
Almost everybody serious runs a HUD that records all hands. If long term things were fishy it would show on everybody's HUD and the jig is up.

I assure you pokerstars is fair. Absolute poker where I originally started playing full time around 2006 had a leak from a former employee that could see hole cards so the system can be manipulated in that sense but it was an internal breach

It's dumb for a site making money to rig action and risk losing everything. Especially when all the pros are literally recording every single hand and sharing data in a pool if they so choose
I watched a guy have access on pokerstars at his house seeing the hole cards. He played real money but very small blinds to only win a few hundred a day to keep off the record. Probably fixed by now but always people out there breaking into things
 
Seth Curry playing live right now

 
I haven't played for about a decade, like back in days before Black Friday. I was really into it back then, like watching videos, doing a ton of studies but being a broke student, could never put the money aside and start a bank roll. I know I would've been playing with scared money and didn't want to put myself on the back foot from the get go.

What I try though was the Chris Ferguson $0 to $10k challenge. So I was playing the nightly freerolls on FTP. I "cashed" a few times for $1 before winning one of those events after about a month for either $5 or $10 and was playing micro stakes on FTP before Black Friday and losing my bank roll of like $15 lol. TBH, I want that money back and want to continue the challenge just cos
 
In the same vein, from what I've seen lately I'd be well blown out of the water. Everyone looks like they're playing super aggro and it's tough to be put into those spots. Against scared money. Seems like everyone is 10x more aggressive than what Tom Dwan was doing back in the day.

On another note, what's the deal with HUDs? HUDs were after my time. Is it pretty much expected that everyone will play with one online?
 
In the same vein, from what I've seen lately I'd be well blown out of the water. Everyone looks like they're playing super aggro and it's tough to be put into those spots. Against scared money. Seems like everyone is 10x more aggressive than what Tom Dwan was doing back in the day.

On another note, what's the deal with HUDs? HUDs were after my time. Is it pretty much expected that everyone will play with one online?

Whats HUD?
 
great bluff i saw a couple of weeks ago

 
Whats HUD?

Heads Up Display. It's an app that will keep track of every single hand you see at a table you are sitting on. It complies all the stats, how often opponents play pre post turn river, how often they raise/call etc etc pret ry much every action made during the game is recorded and kept so you can grow a big database on players you play against regularly as well as a database on how you play

If you don't have it you are behind the times. I know a few pros who don't use it, some of my best poker buds like Mark herm and Dan Kelly don't use them but the vast majority do
 
Heads Up Display. It's an app that will keep track of every single hand you see at a table you are sitting on. It complies all the stats, how often opponents play pre post turn river, how often they raise/call etc etc pret ry much every action made during the game is recorded and kept so you can grow a big database on players you play against regularly as well as a database on how you play

If you don't have it you are behind the times. I know a few pros who don't use it, some of my best poker buds like Mark herm and Dan Kelly don't use them but the vast majority do

Ohhh yes I've heard of them. I don't about the rules of using them in the casino I play at but I'm almost certain they aren't allowed.

Phone use is allowed but closely monitored at the tables and all it would take is one complaint. I know I've never seen anyone try to use one at the table.
 
Ohhh yes I've heard of them. I don't about the rules of using them in the casino I play at but I'm almost certain they aren't allowed.

Phone use is allowed but closely monitored at the tables and all it would take is one complaint. I know I've never seen anyone try to use one at the table.


im talking about online. Live you really dont need that much stuff, the game is much slower and if you paying attention you get a good feel for things.


Online im often playing 6 to 14 tables at a time. its hard to keep track of what everybody is doing sometimes.
 
im talking about online. Live you really dont need that much stuff, the game is much slower and if you paying attention you get a good feel for things.


Online im often playing 6 to 14 tables at a time. its hard to keep track of what everybody is doing sometimes.

6-14 christ almighty.

Most I ever played is 4.

I take it you are outside of the US?
 
In the same vein, from what I've seen lately I'd be well blown out of the water. Everyone looks like they're playing super aggro and it's tough to be put into those spots. Against scared money. Seems like everyone is 10x more aggressive than what Tom Dwan was doing back in the day.

On another note, what's the deal with HUDs? HUDs were after my time. Is it pretty much expected that everyone will play with one online?

My exit from the game was right as the new breed of super-aggressive player had taken over(I stopped playing seriously at age 23). I actually like playing at tables with these guys(to a degree;it's good to have 2-3 of them at the table to build pots). It allowed me to sit back and play a more relaxed style. Particularly at Limit Hold 'em. Those guys tend to get the better of the old school tight-aggressive guys. But playing against them, it can be beneficial to shift your style to a more passive style. You let them build your pots, and get out when you don't have a reasonable shot of winning the pot. How loose you play is really up to you. If you're running hot, play a little looser. If you're on a cooler, tighten up a bit. It's more complicated than that, but I used essentially that style against tables full of new breed types successfully.
 
Ohhh yes I've heard of them. I don't about the rules of using them in the casino I play at but I'm almost certain they aren't allowed.

Phone use is allowed but closely monitored at the tables and all it would take is one complaint. I know I've never seen anyone try to use one at the table.

You definitely can't use them live.

It's all online where you're pretty much getting real time stats of the table
 
My exit from the game was right as the new breed of super-aggressive player had taken over(I stopped playing seriously at age 23). I actually like playing at tables with these guys(to a degree;it's good to have 2-3 of them at the table to build pots). It allowed me to sit back and play a more relaxed style. Particularly at Limit Hold 'em. Those guys tend to get the better of the old school tight-aggressive guys. But playing against them, it can be beneficial to shift your style to a more passive style. You let them build your pots, and get out when you don't have a reasonable shot of winning the pot. How loose you play is really up to you. If you're running hot, play a little looser. If you're on a cooler, tighten up a bit. It's more complicated than that, but I used essentially that style against tables full of new breed types successfully.

I love the theory behind it. When I did play, I was always a tight grinder (well when you freerolled your way into a micro bankroll you had to a little bit).

Limit Hold'em was way more aggro but the math (and hence decision making) was also a lot easier. Essentially, assume that at the end of every street, everyone is going to three bet.
 
I watch as much as I can, seems like a lot of the big names are fading away, or at least arent playing televised tournaments. I havent been checking the leaderboards online much.

The WPT seems to be televising more stuff than the WSOP as well, but they've got a series called the King of the Club on now that is straight trash. Its made of amateurs that qualified online through ClubWPT.com. It's honestly on par with the $10 tournament me and my family would play to piss off time while drunk watching a football game.

So why did you prefer the limit game to NL?

I watch some of the finals and they usually include players who haven't played for long. The big names that were at many final tables in the past seem to go out early these days. It suggests that luck plays a bigger role than skill. I see more players playing what pros consider weak cards like 2s and 3s and winning with them. The more people that play at the table, the more difficult it is to win. Some people that don't read books have different strategy. They bet big on good hands instead of just calling like the books say. Some pros assume they are bluffing. There are also lots of players who go all in on every hand so playing skills don't come into play. You need better cards to beat them.
 
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