Night Routine and Sleep

M

Mark Mah

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Hi Everyone!

I'm Mark from Singapore and I've been training Muay Thai and some BJJ, and supplementing with some strength training (compound heavy lifts) at a local gym for about 6 months and planning to take it further; been stalking these forums as a reader and now I've finally signed up, so I'm pleased to meet you guys and girls :)

Not sure if I'm posting in the right segment but I have been having some trouble sleeping post workout (be it strength training or Muay Thai sparring / conditioning).

I work typical corporate hours and can only work out in the evenings on weekdays, so shifting my training to the mornings and afternoons would be out of the question. A typical evening training session will start at around 8pm and end at around 10pm, by which I'll get home around 11pm. If I do weight training I can try to start and end slightly earlier, but in both cases I have trouble sleeping as I'll toss and turn in bed with some level of anxiety until around 3am in the morning (I have to wake up at around 7am to be in time for work). This affects my recovery greatly as I try to train MT 2 to 3 times a week, and strength training once a week, and if my recovery is slowed I have a hard time keeping up with training.

I have read some other threads which suggest taking ZMA or melatonin, as well as having a heavy meal; I've tried those with no avail, so I'm looking to see if there are other alternatives.

FYI I have tried taking a light or heavy meals after training with carbs, or skipping out on meals totally but both don't seem to have any effect. I also drink 1-2 glasses of milk after training (no protein powder as whey keeps me awake), and do some light stretching and cooling down with a cold shower as well. I don't take any pre workout shakes or caffeine products either (only a can of isotonic, caffeine free drink before workout and lots of water).

Would appreciate if there are any additional, preferably natural solutions which would help me to fall asleep at least 2 hours after training ends!


Thanks for all the great advice so far this forum has been a great help to me!
 
Hi Mark. My sleep routine is pretty messed up due to shift work, but before I became a shift worker and trained Muay Thai in the evenings, I used to have the same problem - would finish training at 21:30, home by just after 22:00, bath / shower, eat food, wait for food to settle and then try and usually fail, to get some sleep! I was just too wired.

Something I have been doing recently is listening to soothing music in bed- classical etc, or whatever you like, and I do take a sleep aid (Night Nurse in the UK) on occasion to ensure a decent sleep, I figure the negatives of poor sleep outweigh any negative side effects of the sleep aid.
 
MilkManUK said:
Hi Mark. My sleep routine is pretty messed up due to shift work, but before I became a shift worker and trained Muay Thai in the evenings, I used to have the same problem - would finish training at 21:30, home by just after 22:00, bath / shower, eat food, wait for food to settle and then try and usually fail, to get some sleep! I was just too wired.

Something I have been doing recently is listening to soothing music in bed- classical etc, or whatever you like, and I do take a sleep aid (Night Nurse in the UK) on occasion to ensure a decent sleep, I figure the negatives of poor sleep outweigh any negative side effects of the sleep aid.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply milkman!

I tried sleep aids like equivalent of ambien in Singapore, but that was only when I was starting out at training once a week, which isn't too bad. But not sure if 3 times a week might be too much and too reliant on it.

I might try the music tip though, do you reckon meditation before sleep might help?
 
Mark Mah said:
Thanks for the reply milkman!

I tried sleep aids like equivalent of ambien in Singapore, but that was only when I was starting out at training once a week, which isn't too bad. But not sure if 3 times a week might be too much and too reliant on it.

I might try the music tip though, do you reckon meditation before sleep might help?
Click to expand...
I don't even think it needs to be meditation as such, but just some time to unwind, empty your head of thoughts and listen to the soothing music...not saying it will work for everybody but it tends to do the trick with me. I'm not usually a very highly strung type person, so I guess that factors into it too.
 
You could also try a guided meditation. It can help to put your brain into a more relaxed state and you can listen to it in bed with the lights off so once it finishes, or you start to feel relaxed, you can just pop the ear buds out and try to sleep.

A little bit of weed can help but has the same issue as sleep aids in that you can develop a tolerance to them.
 
You could download a theta wave app for your phone.

I messed with it a bit and it seemed to really relax me.
 
Meditation, relaxing music and good sleep hygiene (no electronic devices before bed, no alcohol, dark room, etc) have helped me in the past (anxiety/ insomnia plus shift work plus regular international travel...i'm a mess when it comes to sleep)

However, part of the problem could be training so late in the evening. Is it possible to start and end training earlier in the evening/midday during lunch? Whenever I do high intensity training past 8 p.m, I find it impossible to fall asleep easily. Something about revving up your system at a time when your natural circadian rhythm is telling it to wind down. If you do some research, you can find articles on the web basically saying cardio late at night can wreck your sleep habits.
 
DrBdan said:
You could also try a guided meditation. It can help to put your brain into a more relaxed state and you can listen to it in bed with the lights off so once it finishes, or you start to feel relaxed, you can just pop the ear buds out and try to sleep.

A little bit of weed can help but has the same issue as sleep aids in that you can develop a tolerance to them.
Click to expand...
meditation will leave feeling more stimulated afterwards i wouldn't recommend before bed.

avoid screens and try reading a book or some breathing ex's
 
Also, I am always a bit sleepy after having a wank.....so there's always that?
 
LatFlare said:
meditation will leave feeling more stimulated afterwards i wouldn't recommend before bed.

avoid screens and try reading a book or some breathing ex's
Click to expand...

Really? Has that been your experience? I've always found meditation to be incredibly calming. I'm surprised to hear the opposite.
 
DrBdan said:
Really? Has that been your experience? I've always found meditation to be incredibly calming. I'm surprised to hear the opposite.
Click to expand...
you're probably just relaxing as opposed to meditating
 
Mark Mah said:
Hi Everyone!

I'm Mark from Singapore and I've been training Muay Thai and some BJJ, and supplementing with some strength training (compound heavy lifts) at a local gym for about 6 months and planning to take it further; been stalking these forums as a reader and now I've finally signed up, so I'm pleased to meet you guys and girls :)

Not sure if I'm posting in the right segment but I have been having some trouble sleeping post workout (be it strength training or Muay Thai sparring / conditioning).

I work typical corporate hours and can only work out in the evenings on weekdays, so shifting my training to the mornings and afternoons would be out of the question. A typical evening training session will start at around 8pm and end at around 10pm, by which I'll get home around 11pm. If I do weight training I can try to start and end slightly earlier, but in both cases I have trouble sleeping as I'll toss and turn in bed with some level of anxiety until around 3am in the morning (I have to wake up at around 7am to be in time for work). This affects my recovery greatly as I try to train MT 2 to 3 times a week, and strength training once a week, and if my recovery is slowed I have a hard time keeping up with training.

I have read some other threads which suggest taking ZMA or melatonin, as well as having a heavy meal; I've tried those with no avail, so I'm looking to see if there are other alternatives.

FYI I have tried taking a light or heavy meals after training with carbs, or skipping out on meals totally but both don't seem to have any effect. I also drink 1-2 glasses of milk after training (no protein powder as whey keeps me awake), and do some light stretching and cooling down with a cold shower as well. I don't take any pre workout shakes or caffeine products either (only a can of isotonic, caffeine free drink before workout and lots of water).

Would appreciate if there are any additional, preferably natural solutions which would help me to fall asleep at least 2 hours after training ends!


Thanks for all the great advice so far this forum has been a great help to me!
Click to expand...

I'm no expert, but I do know a little bit about proper sleep. There's a reason why the experts say don't use cell phones or smart devices before bed. It gets the brain going and it takes longer for us to fall asleep.

What you are doing is even worse. You're getting your body wkund up. Of course you can't sleep. Especially if you come home at 11 o'clock from the gym... it's going to take you a couple of hours to relax and fall asleep and that's why you're tossing and turning until 3 AM.

I don't want to burst your bubble, but you cannot sustain that and you will always have horrible sleep. Sleep aid won't help you. You need to train at different times but since you cannot do that, you are forced to have lackluster recovery, struggle in training, not have sufficient sleep, and eventually impact your career.

You are fooling yourself if you think you can succeed under those circumstances.

-T
 
LatFlare said:
Interdasting. I've done more present moment awareness type stuff.
Click to expand...

The first kind I was taught is called Samatha and is simple mindful meditation, very common in Buddhism . You focus on your breath and whenever you have a thought you are supposed to acknowledge it and let it go and then go back to your breath. It really makes you realize how hard it is to stop having random thoughts and how your thoughts are different from your "self". It is supposed to help calm your mind (you know when you're laying in bed at night and you can't turn your brain off? it helps with that) and I've always found it very relaxing.

We did a bit of contemplative (Vipashyana in Buddhism) meditation and that could definitely be more stimulating Often it involved thinking about people or events and then focusing on how you felt, both emotionally and physically. It could be pretty intense and I definitely wouldn't recommend that before bed.
 
DrBdan said:
The first kind I was taught is called Samatha and is simple mindful meditation, very common in Buddhism . You focus on your breath and whenever you have a thought you are supposed to acknowledge it and let it go and then go back to your breath. It really makes you realize how hard it is to stop having random thoughts and how your thoughts are different from your "self". It is supposed to help calm your mind (you know when you're laying in bed at night and you can't turn your brain off? it helps with that) and I've always found it very relaxing.

We did a bit of contemplative (Vipashyana in Buddhism) meditation and that could definitely be more stimulating Often it involved thinking about people or events and then focusing on how you felt, both emotionally and physically. It could be pretty intense and I definitely wouldn't recommend that before bed.
Click to expand...
Yep we were taught the first type where to focus on your breath to calm your mind. A lot of guys fell asleep and they told us we were doing it wrong and should be feeling more alert afterwards because our minds won't be bothered by all the ''noise'' or something.
 
there is a way. deep slow breaths during meditation usually does the trick. you'll get drowsy and eventually knock out.
 
I read when i cant sleep. Puts me to sleep fast. Make sure its a book and not ipad or kindle. Apparently the backlight messes with your sleep
 
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