Nick Foles vs. Carson Wentz

[PUO3]

Well, you've got all these people saying that Belichick deserves more credit than Brady. You've even got idiots who claim Brady is a system QB. I give Belichick his due as a historically great coach. He's probably the greatest coach of all time just based off of what he's done already. But I see him fucking up a lot lately. I see Brady still going strong. Belichick himself says that it's a players' league and they're really the ones who win these games, not the coaches. On that note, I give Brady more credit than Belichick for their run, and if anything, Brady carried Belichick this season, especially in the Super bowl.

Belichick seems like he's actually in danger of losing the locker room more than he ever has. Their defensive captain Hightower "liked" a social media post by former Patriot Browner about how Belichick lost them the game by benching Butler at the last minute before the big game. You've got Butler bawling like a baby during the national anthem and two of his teammates holding him while looking despondent themselves. And Rowe says he didn't find out he would be replacing Butler until right before the national anthem as well. Belichick was always able to get away with being surly and dismissive of players because they bought into the system and that everything was always done with winning in mind. But their complete faith in that and in him seems to be cracking. And I don't blame them. He tried to make an example out of Butler and it backfired on him badly. He should have known better going up against a powerful offense with 3 receiver sets and then you've got mismatched safeties on them instead of your best coverage guy.

Hyperbole.

Belichick is notorious for benching players, even his best players, for acting out of line or not doing their job. This isnt a new thing.

Biggest game of your life and youre out smoking weed and seeing concerts. Just lol at that lack of commitment.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

Hyperbole.

Belichick is notorious for benching players, even his best players, for acting out of line or not doing their job. This isnt a new thing.

Biggest game of your life and youre out smoking weed and seeing concerts. Just lol at that lack of commitment.

Benching them for the first possession maybe, not the whole game, and not at the last minute. I'm also not convinced that the weed part is correct. It was a poor decision.

 

[TheTimeIsNotNow]

Someone is going to give up way too much for Foles. It would be a very Browns thing to do to give up a premium pick for Foles and then he reverts to his usual backup self.

 

[basedgodfedor]

No doubt but I guess people would like to see what he would do without Brady.

Parcells is still GOAT in my mind. 2 SBs, took the Patsies to the SB, and the fucking Jets (!!) to two conference championship games with Mark Sanchez as QB. Even his stint in Dallas was successful with Jerry jones as owner and first time starter Tony Romo.

no way. I think you are thinking of rex Ryan regarding mark Sanchez

 

[therealdope]

no way. I think you are thinking of rex Ryan regarding mark Sanchez

You're right. One AFC championship game with TEstaverde. My mistake.

 

[PUO3]

Benching them for the first possession maybe, not the whole game, and not at the last minute. I'm also not convinced that the weed part is correct. It was a poor decision.

Belichick doesnt fuck around.

I respect the hell out of him for how he runs his team. Widely the most disciplined team in the league year in and year out.

 

[PolishHeadlock]

Someone is going to give up way too much for Foles. It would be a very Browns thing to do to give up a premium pick for Foles and then he reverts to his usual backup self.

I think it will take at least a 2nd rounder to get Foles and I don't think any team is going to give up that much.

Maybe the Dolphins will do it for old times sakes

 

[WingsLax9042]

Someone is going to give up way too much for Foles. It would be a very Browns thing to do to give up a premium pick for Foles and then he reverts to his usual backup self.

I don't know if Howie would send him to the Browns regardless of what they offer.... that'd be a whole fucking lot of bad Karma.

 

[Sir Galahad]

Definitely gonna be controversial. They should trade foles asap while his stock is high

Don't think Foles gets traded until they know for certain that Wentz's torn ACL and LCL is healed. But I'm sure the Eagles will get offers from teams that desperately need a QB.

 

[rj144]

Someone is going to give up way too much for Foles. It would be a very Browns thing to do to give up a premium pick for Foles and then he reverts to his usual backup self.

He's actually not bad. Remember his bad years were under Chip Kelly and Jeff Fisher. We just saw what he did in the playoffs. I don't think that's a fluke.

 

[sub_thug]

Foles is great leverage as a trade for Philly. Fortunately for everyone expect the Eagles, these decisions won't be made for a few months, so a lot of the excitement surrounding Foles will have cooled off. Foles may end up staying put in Philly as a great backup QB while Wentz takes his rightful place as the starter.

 

[Sir Galahad]

I don't think there's even a question. You have Wentz as your starter and trade Foles and get a ton back for him. It's probably their only move.

Most likely be traded to Cleveland, Buffalo or Arizona @rj144

 

[Plissken]

Rotate them every four games, whoever plays best by season's end gets the job in the playoffs. Make sure they play opponents that don't favor one starter.
Wouldn't really trade Foles yet when he did so well in the playoffs, what if Wentz performs poorly in the playoffs?

In any case it's a great position to be in.

 

[SuperHoss]

Foles is going to be the starting QB in September. It is far from a given that Wentz will even be ready to play by then. If Philly is smart, they will stick with Foles as long as he continues to play well. It is a decision they should postpone for another year. By then Wentz should be 100% if he has a full recovery.

If they decide to switch to Wentz, they need to make it permanent and trade Foles. No team survives a QB controversy. Rotating QBs is not an option.

By 2019, they will have to make that decision and trade one of them. Foles contract voids if he is still with the team in 2019.

By 2019, Frank Reich could be HC somewhere else and want the services of the available one.

 

[iwhoopedbatman]

There is no controversy here. It's Wentz.

Philly will absolutely get someone to offer a 2nd round pick. All teams want to know is if a QB is good enough to win a SB. Well, Foles just proved that pretty resoundingly. Granted he had a lot of weapons to play with, but he played beautifully. If Philly keeps him, they're asking for trouble and half the league needs someone 'good enough'.

 

[SuperHoss]

There is no controversy here. It's Wentz.

Philly will absolutely get someone to offer a 2nd round pick. All teams want to know is if a QB is good enough to win a SB. Well, Foles just proved that pretty resoundingly. Granted he had a lot of weapons to play with, but he played beautifully. If Philly keeps him, they're asking for trouble and half the league needs someone 'good enough'.

Wentz' full recovery is supposed to be 12 months. Even if he is ready to play in September, it would be foolish to move off the guy who not only won a Super Bowl for you, but played great in doing it.

They should let Wentz recover and see if Foles is ready to grow out of the Run-Pass option (which I expect their opponents to more successfully defend next year) to a more diversified offense. Rushing Wentz back to a starting role prematurely when you have Foles there without exploring his potential is not smart.

 

[iwhoopedbatman]

Wentz' full recovery is supposed to be 12 months. Even if he is ready to play in September, it would be foolish to move off the guy who not only won a Super Bowl for you, but played great in doing it.

They should let Wentz recover and see if Foles is ready to grow out of the Run-Pass option (which I expect their opponents to more successfully defend next year) to a more diversified offense. Rushing Wentz back to a starting role prematurely when you have Foles there without exploring his potential is not smart.

You're playing with fire keeping him. Firstly, you're paying 7+ million for a back up. You can do that this year since Wentz is still cheap, so fine, but they're up hard against the cap. But there will be a QB controversy if Wentz struggles at all coming back and every time he has a subpar game. Plus, there is virtually no where for Foles' value to go but down. If he starts the season with Wentz still recovering and cans it up, you've missed your window. It could all work out, but I'd thank the football Gods and cash out personally. It's also the right thing to do for Foles, unless you're going to name him starter, which no one in Philly's organization is talking about doing.

 

[SuperHoss]

You're playing with fire keeping him. Firstly, you're paying 7+ million for a back up. You can do that this year since Wentz is still cheap, so fine, but they're up hard against the cap. But there will be a QB controversy if Wentz struggles at all coming back and every time he has a subpar game. Plus, there is virtually no where for Foles' value to go but down. If he starts the season with Wentz still recovering and cans it up, you've missed your window. It could all work out, but I'd thank the football Gods and cash out personally. It's also the right thing to do for Foles, unless you're going to name him starter, which no one in Philly's organization is talking about doing.

Starting Foles is not the "safe" thing to do, but it is the smart thing to do. Though the situation is not exactly the same, it definitely bares a strong resemblance to the Brady/Bledsoe situation.

Wentz is hurt and he will probably not be 100% in September. What happens if they trade Foles and Wentz gets hurt again? Better to let Wentz heal and see what you have in Foles.

With all the free agent QBs and the prospects in the upcoming drafts, I don't see Foles having that much value. Teams are getting stingier every year with draft picks. People act like the Pats got fleeced with Jimmy G, but there is no credible evidence they could have gotten much more. It is a buyer's market.

 

[Tuf_guy]

Starting Foles is not the "safe" thing to do, but it is the smart thing to do. Though the situation is not exactly the same, it definitely bares a strong resemblance to the Brady/Bledsoe situation.

Wentz is hurt and he will probably not be 100% in September. What happens if they trade Foles and Wentz gets hurt again? Better to let Wentz heal and see what you have in Foles.

With all the free agent QBs and the prospects in the upcoming drafts, I don't see Foles having that much value. Teams are getting stingier every year with draft picks. People act like the Pats got fleeced with Jimmy G, but there is no credible evidence they could have gotten much more. It is a buyer's market.

Pretty sure they could've gotten a first rounder, because I vaguely recall the Patsies were offered that for Gorapolo.

Foles is now a super bowl MVP, there's a very strong possibility that he continues to look good if he starts at the beginning of next year. He was in bad situations between Chimp taking away the best offensive players (starting with DJax), and Foles being injured (and people figuring out Chimp's system, I suspect). Then you look at Fisher, and it's now common knowledge that he's garbage if a team wants a good qb.

Foles had a winning record - especially when you start after his rookie season. He had some down games after coming off of the bench this season, but it was likely him shaking the cobwebs off. He had the 27:2 season, now super bowl MVP, even with over half of the nfl watching world shitting on him openly.

I honestly believe that he can be great longterm.
If I can see the silver linings for his rough patches, I'm pretty sure a franchise that's looking for an answer could also. These people often seem to look at resumes - such as Osweiler being on a championship team as a starter for awhile and getting paid big time despite the defense being the reason for the run.

Whisenhunt had Kurt Warner at qb and goes to a super bowl and somehow gets a second head coaching job after it becoming clear that he sucked without warner (although Titans coach selections are highly suspect).

Flacco got a huge contract awhile back and what exactly is it that he does now or did then?

These people aren't all geniuses and visionaries. They often see what they want to see and run with it. Foles has given good reason to believe that he can be a difference maker, and his resume is probably good enough to get a first rounder from more than the browns from a team who believes a solid qb is the missing piece, and who believes in their coaches to get results out of the players.

 

[SuperHoss]

Pretty sure they could've gotten a first rounder, because I vaguely recall the Patsies were offered that for Gorapolo.

...

These people aren't all geniuses and visionaries. They often see what they want to see and run with it. Foles has given good reason to believe that he can be a difference maker, and his resume is probably good enough to get a first rounder from more than the browns from a team who believes a solid qb is the missing piece, and who believes in their coaches to get results out of the players.

You aren't going to go wrong either way. Wentz had an amazing year and would have been MVP if he was healthy. He probably has more upside than any player in the NFL today.

I just know that more often than not, QBs come back sooner than necessary and take longer than expected to get back to prime form. With Foles in the lineup, they don't need to rush Wentz back.

However, if Wentz is really going to be ready to play and Foles is going to fetch a high first round draft pick or more, then it shouldn't hurt them to cash in on that. For the record, though it was reported in the preseason, I don't think it was ever confirmed that anyone really was offering a 1st rounder for Garoppolo.

For the Eagles, its all gravy. I don't think it would be a mistake to keep Foles or trade him as long as they are making their decisions from a position of power and not panicking about dealing him from fear of a QB controversy.