Nick Curson interview

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by Noodles03, Mar 19, 2017.

  1. Noodles03 Blue Belt

    Noodles03
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  2. ripskater Steel Belt

    ripskater
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    I think I heard that podcast last summer.

    I think Nick Curson is a really good trainer. The stuff he does is definitely different and also underrated in my opinion.
     
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  3. Cmart Aspiring Milo

    Cmart
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    I'll weigh in, mainly because Nick Curson has been outspoken against heavy lifting and the "big three" (hence the ripskater endorsement).

    I'd never heard of the guy before, but he's advertised as a trainer. No credentials, but still a trainer. So I looked at the mma fighters he's trained, to see how they've done lately. He's trained some notable guys, and here's their recent records:

    Lyoto Machida -- has lost three of his last four fights
    Fabricio Werdum -- one win one loss in this last two fights after winning six in a row
    Rafael Dos Anjos -- lost his two most recent fights after winning five in a row
    Jon Tuck -- has lost his two most recent, and four of his latest six fights
    Jake Ellenberger -- has lost six of his last eight fights

    I'm not sure what would be a better choice... having Nick Curson as your trainer before a fight or having food poisoning. It seems statistically very close.

    From the wiki article on him:

    "His training techniques are based on plyometrics and ballistic modalities with a physioball modification. He works on speed, flexibility and stamina. He employs fast-twitch muscle training in the swimming pool, downhill sprinting, hypoxic altitude simulation, motor coordination and kinesthetic awareness exercises. Significant attention is given to foot strengthening exercises.... On The Joe Rogan Experience podcast he explained how he's against traditional squats, bench press, deadlift, etc."

    This all sounds fine, except that he seems to have thrown out the baby with the bathwater by denying the benefits of strength training with heavy weights. I understand that, leading up to a fight, mma'ers aren't going to be training for their 1RM in the squat, bench, and deadlift like a powerlifter. But there's only so many hours in a day, and if one's opponent, early on in training, is becoming phenomenally strong with deadlifts and cleans and rows and presses and pullups, and Curson has you focusing on foot strength and fast-twitch pool stuff, well I get where these recent recent losses are coming from in this guy's athletes.

    There's a fine line between revolutionary training and, as Nate Diaz put it, "playing touch-butt with that dork in the park."

    Fads come and go, and are popular for whatever reason they become popular, while that lasts. But there's a reason barbell training has been around for 200+ years. Progressive weight training has its place, and while it's not the be-all and end-all of athletic training, it's a huge mistake to deny its benefits and forsake it altogether. In my opinion Nick Curson is in this way mistaken and a fad trainer. He will need to make adjustments in his philosophy before people catch on that his fighters lose fights, and if he doesn't, he'll be forgotten in a few years.
     
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  4. ripskater Steel Belt

    ripskater
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    I also think there's a place for barbell training. So I disagree with him on that.
     
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  5. Cmart Aspiring Milo

    Cmart
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    LOL I think you misspelled "bodyweight." Are you trying to make me spit out my coffee?
     
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  6. ripskater Steel Belt

    ripskater
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    It depends on the individual athlete, the fighter, his style and his opponent.

    For instance:

    I think a striker is gonna get more benefit with olympic lifts, wood chopping, (more explosive exercises)

    The grappler will get more benefit from deadlift, or the other powerlifts.
     
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  7. ripskater Steel Belt

    ripskater
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    I'd say the other benefit that Nick Curson is very beneficial in would be mobility.

    The swiss ball workout for mobility, elasticiy, balance and posture. The early version of it is found in ProBodX. It's the best warmup and cool down ever to get your body back into alignment. And restores elasticity in mucles, and fascia.
     
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  8. ripskater Steel Belt

    ripskater
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  9. JSnake Green Belt

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    Arguing that the outcome of a fight is determined by S&C training is a bit of a stretch. In MMA, people can just get caught by a strike or submission out of the blue, have a decision stolen from them by the judges, or get outclassed by skill and technique alone. S&C training is only meant to be supplementary, it's not a substitute for the actual skills of the sport. Its effectiveness should naturally be judged by how that fighter performs in the specific attributes the training was meant to improve not by whether they won the fight or not. Dos Anjos for example, was actually beating Alvarez before he got caught by that punch in the 1st round. Is Nick Curson really to blame for that?

    On paper, Jon Jones holds a victory over OSP, but if you actually watched the fight he looked like utter dogshit. Was his focus on weight lifting before the fight responsible for it? When you look at fighters like Pudzianowski who came from a powerlifting background, he had a problem with gassing fast in his fights as well, literally turning purple against Tim Sylvia. So there's certainly an argument that can be made on how heavy lifting impacts MMA performance, and I don't think it makes Curson a "fad trainer" to criticize it. His "Speed of Sport" program is advertised to increase "speed, flexibility and stamina", if his fighters show a notable improvement in those areas, then he's done his job. The actual winning of a fight is more the responsibility of the trainers/coaches of the fighter that specialize in the sport.
     
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  10. Noodles03 Blue Belt

    Noodles03
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    In the interview, he admits the benefits of doing strength training and actually does strength training once a week.
     
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  11. Cmart Aspiring Milo

    Cmart
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    So your point is that, even though he's taken fighters from winning records to losing records, it's probably not his fault. Nice, I'm sure the fighters he's trained would feel better having heard that. It's an excellent advertisement for his snake oil. "Sure, my fighters lose, but it's not because of me." Honestly, if Curson is a guy who trains mma fighters, tell me a more effective way to judge his training rather than looking at whether his fighters win or not. I'll wait. I'm going to guarantee you that what a fighter wants out of his training is a win on fight day. Period.

    And then your other point is that Jon Jones blames lifting for his poor showing(s), even though he won.

    1. He won.
    2. He couldn't find anything else to blame? He's kinda thrown his life in the shitter, but it's weights that messed up his game so that now he only wins decisions?

    If only Nick Curson's fighters were so lucky.

    ...and that Pudzianowski gassed. Yeah, but there's lots of reasons fighters gas, isn't there? Some gas from emotion, inexperience, illness, poor diet, or over-cutting like Rumble was doing. But you want to pick on the strongman that made a transition to mma? He's primarily been a strongman. He's also 40 years old. And oh no, he lost to the former UFC heavyweight champion! Not a lot of other athletes from unrelated sports have made successful transitions to mma.

    I didn't argue that Nick Curson determined the outcome of fights. But look up the data for yourself, and you will see the recently spotty records of his trainees, and draw your own conclusions. I think it would be difficult to conclude that he's a success based on his outcomes, regardless of the various excuses you've provided.
     
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  12. JSnake Green Belt

    JSnake
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    Dos Anjos started training with Curson in 2014 prior to his fight with Benson, and became Lightweight champion... so even in that respect of simply wins and losses you're not giving a fair, accurate representation. I already gave you a way to judge the fruits of the training: judge by their actual performance in the fight.

    Here's another way, find out what the fighters he's actually trained with have to say about it and if it made a considerable difference in how they felt and performed.

    Would you honestly say Jones won that match because of superior conditioning and training leading up to the fight or due to his unique skills and talent in the sport itself? Because if he had performed that slow and gassy in his past matches, that winning record would surely be in doubt now.

    Well after Pudzianowski lost, he clearly made a significant change in his training that greatly reduced the amount of muscle he carried. So even he could recognize there were negative effects of his heavy lifting on his performance in MMA. There would seem to be a correlation that would justify what Curson is arguing.

    If you really wanted to base the results just on their record, then look at the point at which they actually started training with him. You're being a tad biased just focusing on the losses, and ignoring the positive outcomes.
     
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  13. ripskater Steel Belt

    ripskater
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    How many trainers, train a fighter who wins the belt on their watch?

    Not many. Something was done well for that to happen.
     
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  14. j123 Pro Sherdogger 500-0-1

    j123
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  15. ripskater Steel Belt

    ripskater
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    Could be. It's rampant. Many of our beltholders were using and many never get caught in my opinion.
     
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  16. Noodles03 Blue Belt

    Noodles03
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    I'm debating on buying the ProBodX book to help with my boxing.
     
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  17. ripskater Steel Belt

    ripskater
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    It's better if you get 1 on 1 instruction. It's too tough to figure out through the book.
     
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  18. PivotPunch Red Belt

    PivotPunch
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    One thing that regardless whether you agree with his thinking is most likely complete BS is how he thinks fighters don't need to do that much actual fight training but that the fights are won with S&C.

    Obviously the older and more experienced a fighter gets the more S&&C matters and the less time he needs to spend on technique. But for anyone beside guys like Evander Holyfield who don't have 2 decades of actual pro experience that's probaby a dumb statement.
    And S&C guys competing against the main trainers is a bad thing regardless of whether the S&C works
     
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  19. Noodles03 Blue Belt

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  20. PCP319 Orange Belt

    PCP319
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    Sounds like some lab coat bullshit. Stick to the basics, no need to get fancy with exercise selection.
     
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